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  #2341  
Old 04-23-2012
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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????What do you mean? Where do you got those 500kg?

On the Solaris they give a ballast of 2400kg on the Salona they give a ballast of 2270kg.

The Salona 38 weights 600kg less so it needs less ballast for the same effect.

I don't know on each boat to what keel configuration corresponds that ballast but I know that on the Salona they will make a special keel with the ballast you want for 5000 Ä more than the normal lead keel. It can be one like the one on the Solaris or a hi-tech one designed by Jason Ker and maximized for handicap racing.



And even discounting those 5000Ä a top specifications Salona with far superior specifications than a standard Solaris 37 will cost less 45 000Ä.

Donít get me wrong, if you have the money and appreciate the top quality of the interior have a top specifications Solaris 37. It will probably not be as fast as a Salona 38 but it is a hell of a boat and the difference should be really very small, negligible for cruising.

Regards

Paulo
Hi,

On the Salona i get 2270kg, but perhaps this is not the performance version. On the pdf download on richardbaldwinyachts.... 2700kg is given for the Solaris.
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  #2342  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
They are not new (30 or 40 year's old) and they are made of aluminum Some of the most known voyagers like Jimmy Cornell circumnavigated in them. In fact he recommends that type of boat for extensive voyaging. Once I meet a guy that had circumnavigated 3 time on one.
They seem like the type of boats you could stay at sea with, going most places, with alacrity. Oh, yes, I should have said "metal" not steel hulls, and specified some of the "Lifting keel/centerboarder" boats you list in your Post #1 of this thread, like OVNI and Allures. The basic concept may have been around, but the execution of these newer boats kinda choked me up. Amazing.

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I followed that trip in direct and with emotion. It was a great adventure. But I would not say that boat is as seaworthy and safe has for instance a Portuguese Caravela. They could make that voyage because the current and the winds push ten in that direction. That boat cannot navigate against the wind. The breakthrough with the Portuguese Caravela that is also called discovery ship, was that it could effectively sail against the wind. It was by far for many years the boat with the bigger pointing ability and therefore more adapted to explorations where the winds where not known.

Caravel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the winds were mapped they sailed those routes not with Caravelas but with ships with big rounded sails (not latin sails) kind of ancient spinnakers, downwind boats that were capable of fully exploiting the trade winds:

Carrack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
Paulo
Thanks. Coincidentally, I recently watched Part 2 of
presented by Tom Cunliffe -- he discussed the legendary race of the

HMS Pickle:

and her mark in British history; sailing on a replica. The boat was originally named Sting, and "built in 1799 in Bermuda, where this type of vessel was known as a Bermuda sloop" -- the race was won by her upwind capability as "a schooner spurned by the Royal Navy," which was "set in traditional ways." (Not like our times )



the boat shows "the innovations of the Americans" it was reported. Plenty more history to this -- following on influences from the boats and concepts you mentioned in your post?. Quite a bowsprit there. Check out

"The navy favoured multiple-masted designs as they did not require the large, very experienced crew demanded by the single-masted designs (this was the same reason the Bermuda Sloop Foundation chose a three-masted design for its new Spirit of Bermuda, which is a sail training ship for youths). They also had the advantage of longer decks, which carried more guns. Although, today, these vessels might be considered schooners, and some might debate the use of the term sloop for multiple-masted vessels, the Royal Navy rated such vessels as sloops-of-war... They were intended to counter the then-extant menace of French privateers, which the Navy's ships-of-the-line were ill-designed to counter. Eventually, Bermuda sloops became the standard advice vessels of the navy, used for communications, reconnoitering, anti-slaving, and anti-smuggling, and other roles to which they were well suited."

Last edited by Daily Alice; 04-23-2012 at 06:39 AM.
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  #2343  
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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Originally Posted by Marsvinet View Post
Hi,

On the Salona i get 2270kg, but perhaps this is not the performance version. On the pdf download on richardbaldwinyachts.... 2700kg is given for the Solaris.
Hi!

On the solaris site they give 2400kg.

http://www.solarisyachts.com/reposit...eb_SONE_37.pdf

Assuming that they are not wrong on the richardbaldwinyachts, that would be the difference between the ballasts for 2.40 and 2.10m draft.

On the Salona 2270kg is the ballast for the 2.00m draft and 2000kg the one for 2.25m draft. There is a difference of about 400kg on ballast but even considering the difference in ballast the Salona hull is bigger and 200kg lighter.

The difference in ballast is a design option. If you compare the Salona with the French boats you will find that he has much more ballast than those boats (ballast ratio). For normal sailing conditions a more moderated ballast ratio has advantages to sail in light and medium wind (lighter boat), however for offshore work in bad weather it is better a boat with a high ratio of ballast, a heavier boat.

I don't race so I prefer a slightly worse boat on weak and medium winds and a slightly better boat on strong winds and that's why on the Salona 38 I was near to buy I was having a keel like the one on the picture and about more 300kg on a 2.25m keel. Their internal keel structure has no problem in absorbing and distributing the extra weight. There are guys (cruisers) that have put even more weight (on the previous 37).

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-23-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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  #2344  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by Daily Alice View Post

HMS Pickle:

HMS Pickle (1800) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The boat was originally named Sting, and "built in 1799 in Bermuda, where this type of vessel was known as a Bermuda sloop" -- the race was won by her upwind capability as "a schooner spurned by the Royal Navy," which was "set in traditional ways." (Not like our times )



...
300 years separated the Bermuda sloop from a Caravel so no doubt it was a faster and better boat, specially downwind.

Funny thing is that the Pickle was mainly used as a tender

"She was originally a civilian vessel named Sting, of six guns, that Lord Hugh Seymour purchased to use as a tender on the Jamaica Station".


Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Regarding modern times probably nobody has contributed so much for the development of the modern yacht as Eric Tabarly.

His ideas that were then put in practice by some of the best Na around gave boats, all named after the family boat Pen Duick, that won almost everything in what regards Ocean Races in the 60's and 70's and that pioneer the shapes of the next decade modern yachts.

Well maybe we can put at the same level Jean-Marie Finot (the one that designed the two boats that I have suggested to you) in what regards the design evolution from 1975 to the end of the last century but that is another story.

Regarding Tabarly, three movies, two very interesting under the perspective of the evolution of sail boat and rig design, showing all of his boats and a last one that shows its last boat. The ideas that were underlying on that boat were developed by its friend Alain Thebault after his death and gave today's fastest offshore boat, the Hydroptere.

Pen Duick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



















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Last edited by PCP; 04-23-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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Vor 70:

Puma has made a great start and sailed away leading...and a day later keeps its lead. It seems those guys are decided to win home in Miami. Too soon to tell, boats are still very close and there are 4500Nm to make.

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Race Data Center

Ir seems to me that Telefonica is already on the best position for the next days. I will not be surprised if tomorrow they were leading.

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Transat Ag2r

On the last night they got 45K winds. Biscay golf was up to its reputation

On those small light 35ft boats they endured the bad weather and none stop racing. Great little boats the Figaro II, and of course, great sailors out there.

I can't wait for the images

Transat AG2R La Mondiale 2012

and while we wait some great images from other edition of this race:


Last edited by PCP; 04-23-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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  #2348  
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi!

On the solaris site they give 2400kg.

http://www.solarisyachts.com/reposit...eb_SONE_37.pdf

Assuming that they are not wrong on the richardbaldwinyachts, that would be the difference between the ballasts for 2.40 and 2.10m draft.

On the Salona 2270kg is the ballast for the 2.00m draft and 2000kg the one for 2.25m draft. There is a difference of about 400kg on ballast but even considering the difference in ballast the Salona hull is bigger and 200kg lighter.

The difference in ballast is a design option. If you compare the Salona with the French boats you will find that he has much more ballast than those boats (ballast ratio). For normal sailing conditions a more moderated ballast ratio has advantages to sail in light and medium wind (lighter boat), however for offshore work in bad weather it is better a boat with a high ratio of ballast, a heavier boat.

I don't race so I prefer a slightly worse boat on weak and medium winds and a slightly better boat on strong winds and that's why on the Salona 38 I was near to buy I was having a keel like the one on the picture and about more 300kg on a 2.25m keel. Their internal keel structure has no problem in absorbing and distributing the extra weight. There are guys (cruisers) that have put even more weight (on the previous 37).

Regards

Paulo
Another thing i notice is that Solaris gives the Displacement 6900kg vs 7100 for richardbaldwinyacht...
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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Originally Posted by Marsvinet View Post
Another thing i notice is that Solaris gives the Displacement 6900kg vs 7100 for richardbaldwinyacht...
It is possible that the boat with the shorter keel and more ballast (2700kg) weights 7100kg and with the deep draft and less ballast (2400kg) weights 6900kg, but of course, the maths are wrong: we have a 200kg difference when the difference in ballast is 300kg.

If you are interested in the boat you have to ask them because they are not clear in what regards weights of the boat in the two keel configuration neither in what regards building materials. I don't know if they have an epoxy option and that will make the boat some hundreds of kg lighter.

Anyway the boat seems to me a bit less sportive than the Salona but as a cruiser it is still a very fast cruiser, a very seaworthy boat, a gorgeous design by Soto Acerbal and a boat that would make proud any owner, as I have said a truly great sailboat...for the ones that can afford it. A prestige boat, a kind of more sportive Halber-Rassy. The price of this one should not be far from the price of the Halberg-Rassy 372.

















Solaris by Serigi

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-23-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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  #2350  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

could not agree more and will of course contact them as soon as i have the money
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