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  #2341  
Old 04-22-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Alice View Post
Paulo, no doubt.
And, I am in no position to judge design considerations. Though your post did cause me to contemplate the Airbus, an actual bus, and the barge, in terms of bows. Oh, and Thor Heyerdahl's RA II Please check out the sea motion in ...
No, not really, nice movie.

That is a supposedly replica of a very primitive boat. Even 3500 old Phoenicians boats would be very modern compared to that. Regarding to motion, the boat is not sailing but stopped, bouncing in the waves, nothing to do with a motion of a modern boat while sailing.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2342  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

That's true, it's just bouncing around. I think there's a better video somewhere. I'm OT I realize, yet such boats are interestingly radical, if in a manner completely different than what new technology brings. Thanks for posting about such interesting boats yourself, I've learned a lot and sometimes been amazed by what's been built, like the new beachable steel hulls, and Capado.

"What did the Ra Expeditions prove? Did it actually prove that the Egyptians or some other group of travelers with reed boats reached the Americas in ancient times? Of course not. What it did though, was to demonstrate that boats of this sort, with a wide ancient international distribution, were certainly capable and seaworthy, thus putting a damper on the notion that ancient people did not have the means to cross the oceans. One could argue that in terms of survivability, the reed boat is equal, if not better, to most any boat used by Europeans during the early centuries of exploration." http://www.plu.edu/~ryandp/RAX.html

Last edited by Daily Alice; 04-22-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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  #2343  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by Daily Alice View Post
..Thanks for posting about such interesting boats yourself, I've learned a lot and sometimes been amazed by what's been built, like the new beachable steel hulls...
They are not new (30 or 40 year's old) and they are made of aluminum Some of the most known voyagers like Jimmy Cornell circumnavigated in them. In fact he recommends that type of boat for extensive voyaging. Once I meet a guy that had circumnavigated 3 time on one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Alice View Post

"What did the Ra Expeditions prove? Did it actually prove that the Egyptians or some other group of travelers with reed boats reached the Americas in ancient times? Of course not. What it did though, was to demonstrate that boats of this sort, with a wide ancient international distribution, were certainly capable and seaworthy, thus putting a damper on the notion that ancient people did not have the means to cross the oceans. One could argue that in terms of survivability, the reed boat is equal, if not better, to most any boat used by Europeans during the early centuries of exploration." ...
I followed that trip in direct and with emotion. It was a great adventure. But I would not say that boat is as seaworthy and safe has for instance a Portuguese Caravela. They could make that voyage because the current and the winds push ten in that direction. That boat cannot navigate against the wind.

The breakthrough with the Portuguese Caravela that is also called discovery ship, was that it could effectively sail against the wind. It was by far for many years the boat with the bigger pointing ability and therefore more adapted to explorations where the winds where not known.



Caravel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the winds were mapped they sailed those routes not with Caravelas but with ships with big rounded sails (not latin sails) kind of ancient spinnakers, downwind boats that were capable of fully exploiting the trade winds:





Carrack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-22-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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New Contest yacht

Contest yachts seems not to be touched by the crisis: after anouncing a short time back this new 42ft (that I don't find very pretty),



they announced a new 72ft and they are already building it



I like more this one but it is not a mach in what beauty concerns to the Italian boats of this size. They really need to have such an high freeboard on a boat with this size?

http://www.contestyachts.com/media/3...atures72cs.pdf
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  #2345  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I have said that if somebody needs to ask the price it is not going to buy this boat

The price is just huge, 220500€ for the basic price with this specifications:

http://www.richardbaldwinyachts.com/...e-37-specs.pdf

The specifications are good but nothing special. If you buy a Salona 38 with the performance, comfort and basic package you will get a boat with higher specifications for almost less 50000€.

For superior specifications I mean: Same mast brand but higher range model (three spreaders), rod on the rig (option on the Solaris), Carbon spinnaker pole (on the Solaris even the aluminium one is optional), stainless steel grid to take the forces of the shrouds and keel (on the Solaris, reinforcements in e glass fiber), Epoxy based resins (Solaris resins are not epoxy), three blade folding propeller (2 blade fixed one in the Solaris), Dracon sails (that can be upgraded), no sails included on the Solaris.

I bet that you can upgrade the Solaris to the Salona specifications but then the Solaris price would be a lot more than 220500€ and the difference to the Salona much bigger. In fact, now that difference is bigger because Salona is offering an introductory price on the 38 and that means about less 30 000€ on that Salona upgrated version, and that means a difference of 80000€ to a lower specification Solaris 37.

That was what I mean. You don't buy a Solaris for the price or specifications but out of passion and for its impeccable finish

Regarding the Solaris 37 I have to say that besides the price I also don't like the interior, I mean those fashionable white cabinets that are trendy on this moment in Italy (they are similar to the ones from the new CS 39). The problem with fashions is that they go away rely quick and you end up with a boat out of fashion in no time I prefer the wood interior of the Salona (in what regards design) even if I am sure they can put you wood cabinets, as on previous Solaris models but that, I am sure, it will mean more money in extras

360 - Salona Yachts

Take a look at what I mean. this is the new Solaris 37 interior:





This is the interior of a bigger Solaris but with wood:





Some more photos of the Solaris 37:















The Solais 37 is a very beautiful boat and a boat that resembles a lot with the Salona 38, except that this one has the keel I want on the Salona and a slightly better designed transom (for my taste).

But on the other hand the Salona will be a lot faster: It was more 10m2 of sail area and weights less 800kg probably due to its epoxy based hull.

Regards

Paulo
The the keel of the Salona is 500kg less.
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  #2346  
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Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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Originally Posted by Marsvinet View Post
The the keel of the Salona is 500kg less.
????What do you mean? Where do you got those 500kg?

On the Solaris they give a ballast of 2400kg on the Salona they give a ballast of 2270kg.

The Salona 38 weights 600kg less so it needs less ballast for the same effect.

I don't know on each boat to what keel configuration corresponds that ballast but I know that on the Salona they will make a special keel with the ballast you want for 5000 € more than the normal lead keel. It can be one like the one on the Solaris or a hi-tech one designed by Jason Ker and maximized for handicap racing.



And even discounting those 5000€ a top specifications Salona with far superior specifications than a standard Solaris 37 will cost less 45 000€.

Don’t get me wrong, if you have the money and appreciate the top quality of the interior have a top specifications Solaris 37. It will probably not be as fast as a Salona 38 but it is a hell of a boat and the difference should be really very small, negligible for cruising.

Regards

Paulo
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Racing Figaro II: AG2R

the transat is on again. Raced on FigaroII an duo crews the AG2R celebrates its 20 anniversary with a great race. Just look at the images:











and as usual Morvan is on the lead

Transat AG2R La Mondiale 2012


.....

Last edited by PCP; 04-22-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
????What do you mean? Where do you got those 500kg?

On the Solaris they give a ballast of 2400kg on the Salona they give a ballast of 2270kg.

The Salona 38 weights 600kg less so it needs less ballast for the same effect.

I don't know on each boat to what keel configuration corresponds that ballast but I know that on the Salona they will make a special keel with the ballast you want for 5000 € more than the normal lead keel. It can be one like the one on the Solaris or a hi-tech one designed by Jason Ker and maximized for handicap racing.



And even discounting those 5000€ a top specifications Salona with far superior specifications than a standard Solaris 37 will cost less 45 000€.

Don’t get me wrong, if you have the money and appreciate the top quality of the interior have a top specifications Solaris 37. It will probably not be as fast as a Salona 38 but it is a hell of a boat and the difference should be really very small, negligible for cruising.

Regards

Paulo
Hi,

On the Salona i get 2270kg, but perhaps this is not the performance version. On the pdf download on richardbaldwinyachts.... 2700kg is given for the Solaris.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
They are not new (30 or 40 year's old) and they are made of aluminum Some of the most known voyagers like Jimmy Cornell circumnavigated in them. In fact he recommends that type of boat for extensive voyaging. Once I meet a guy that had circumnavigated 3 time on one.
They seem like the type of boats you could stay at sea with, going most places, with alacrity. Oh, yes, I should have said "metal" not steel hulls, and specified some of the "Lifting keel/centerboarder" boats you list in your Post #1 of this thread, like OVNI and Allures. The basic concept may have been around, but the execution of these newer boats kinda choked me up. Amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I followed that trip in direct and with emotion. It was a great adventure. But I would not say that boat is as seaworthy and safe has for instance a Portuguese Caravela. They could make that voyage because the current and the winds push ten in that direction. That boat cannot navigate against the wind. The breakthrough with the Portuguese Caravela that is also called discovery ship, was that it could effectively sail against the wind. It was by far for many years the boat with the bigger pointing ability and therefore more adapted to explorations where the winds where not known.

Caravel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the winds were mapped they sailed those routes not with Caravelas but with ships with big rounded sails (not latin sails) kind of ancient spinnakers, downwind boats that were capable of fully exploiting the trade winds:

Carrack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
Paulo
Thanks. Coincidentally, I recently watched Part 2 of
presented by Tom Cunliffe -- he discussed the legendary race of the

HMS Pickle:

and her mark in British history; sailing on a replica. The boat was originally named Sting, and "built in 1799 in Bermuda, where this type of vessel was known as a Bermuda sloop" -- the race was won by her upwind capability as "a schooner spurned by the Royal Navy," which was "set in traditional ways." (Not like our times )



the boat shows "the innovations of the Americans" it was reported. Plenty more history to this -- following on influences from the boats and concepts you mentioned in your post?. Quite a bowsprit there. Check out

"The navy favoured multiple-masted designs as they did not require the large, very experienced crew demanded by the single-masted designs (this was the same reason the Bermuda Sloop Foundation chose a three-masted design for its new Spirit of Bermuda, which is a sail training ship for youths). They also had the advantage of longer decks, which carried more guns. Although, today, these vessels might be considered schooners, and some might debate the use of the term sloop for multiple-masted vessels, the Royal Navy rated such vessels as sloops-of-war... They were intended to counter the then-extant menace of French privateers, which the Navy's ships-of-the-line were ill-designed to counter. Eventually, Bermuda sloops became the standard advice vessels of the navy, used for communications, reconnoitering, anti-slaving, and anti-smuggling, and other roles to which they were well suited."

Last edited by Daily Alice; 04-23-2012 at 06:39 AM.
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  #2350  
Old 04-23-2012
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Re: Salona 38 - Solaris 37

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Originally Posted by Marsvinet View Post
Hi,

On the Salona i get 2270kg, but perhaps this is not the performance version. On the pdf download on richardbaldwinyachts.... 2700kg is given for the Solaris.
Hi!

On the solaris site they give 2400kg.

http://www.solarisyachts.com/reposit...eb_SONE_37.pdf

Assuming that they are not wrong on the richardbaldwinyachts, that would be the difference between the ballasts for 2.40 and 2.10m draft.

On the Salona 2270kg is the ballast for the 2.00m draft and 2000kg the one for 2.25m draft. There is a difference of about 400kg on ballast but even considering the difference in ballast the Salona hull is bigger and 200kg lighter.

The difference in ballast is a design option. If you compare the Salona with the French boats you will find that he has much more ballast than those boats (ballast ratio). For normal sailing conditions a more moderated ballast ratio has advantages to sail in light and medium wind (lighter boat), however for offshore work in bad weather it is better a boat with a high ratio of ballast, a heavier boat.

I don't race so I prefer a slightly worse boat on weak and medium winds and a slightly better boat on strong winds and that's why on the Salona 38 I was near to buy I was having a keel like the one on the picture and about more 300kg on a 2.25m keel. Their internal keel structure has no problem in absorbing and distributing the extra weight. There are guys (cruisers) that have put even more weight (on the previous 37).

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-23-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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