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  #2561  
Old 05-25-2012
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Vor70

Super interesting, like a chess play

It seems to me I was wrong about Camper. That move North was a big gamble but they sure new what they were trying to do and it worked out. He is where Telefonica would like to be . Telefonica failed for just some few hours its move and they did not reach the wind they were trying to catch but he seems they are going out of trouble in some few hours.

But Camper is better positioned and will be going to win over Telefonica on the next hours.

The gamble I was talking about regarding two possible different courses is on: Only Telefonica and Camper will risk the shorter route (with less wind). All the others are going North to get more wind.

I still think the shorter is the best option...but more risky.

Ir will be interesting to see who is right and who will pass the anti-cyclone first. That will be half way to victory. This is the more tricky part of the race, the one they can win or lose big time.

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Race Data Center
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  #2562  
Old 05-25-2012
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Re: Salona 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
Indeed!


Lidingö runt 2012 offered very shifty and light conditions and I am not so sure the real time performances will be rightous to the boats. Might be useful though to compare boats in the same start. IIRC the wind was stronger during the early starts. What is really cool though is that a Nacra 20 was only 9 seconds behind the Marström M32 on elapsed time (same start group I think)!

//Mr W
Yes, I see what you mean, different time starts and I guess also very different racing performances by the crews. Huge differences in apparently similar boats. well, a fast boat can be badly sailed but a fast boat even with a very good crew cannot go faster than what is physically possible and that at least give us some information.

Anyway that is good only for light wind and no waves conditions. That should give an advantage to the lighter boats and that makes even more noticeable the time of the XP 38 that would be much more at ease with more muscular conditions:

Xp 38 - 02:05:54, faster than two IMX 40 - 02:07:04 and 02:07:40, leaving behind an Arcona 460 - 02:10:30, a Arcona 400 - 02:14:25, a First 40.7 - 02:13:08 and a Salona 37 - 02:15:53.

These guys were competing in ORCI and I assume they were between the best teams.

Yes, the times of some trimarans that departed only 10 minutes later were very good, with special mention to the Nacra F20 Carbon - 01:26:50 and the Seacart 30 - 01:41:16.

The Super Maxy 100ft racer that was the first boat on the water and supposedly the faster was beaten in real time by the little Nacra 20 by a considerable margin I guess that the guys on that big racer should thank the race organization not having the little boat racing along whith them. It would be embarrassing

But when we have a look to the time of cruising trimarans the story is different: a cruising Dragonfly 35 on its faster version (Extreme) only managed 02:31:00, a worse result than the one of a Salona 37 that has much more interior space. I guess that with more wind the story would be different. I guess that for trimarans even more than in monohulls weight is paramount to performance.

As I have said the Xp-38 or the Salona 37 are not light boats if we take as measure top cruiser racers, more used to race than to cruise and the performance was remarkable on this light wind conditions.

I will have a look at some other boats later. If you feel like please comment or add what you like.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-25-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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  #2563  
Old 05-25-2012
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Dazcats

Most catamarans today are fat, slow and have lot's of interior space...but not all. I like the ones that are not fat and are fast.

I like Dazcats:



















Last edited by PCP; 05-25-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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  #2564  
Old 05-26-2012
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Wink Europe warm up: Last test before the Vendee Globe

Groupe Bell, very nice boat. Arriving at Cascais in 6th place. This one going to be one of the main contenders on the Vendee Globe, with Kito de Pavant.



Here, the same boat last year duo sailed going fast:




The race:

http://www.europa-warmup.com/?mode=course






The first leg of the race (Barcelona - Lisboa) was won by Virbac -Paprec with its usual skipper Jean-Pierre Dick that is without any doubt one of the favorites for the vendee.

In second the kid and one that I think is going to be one of the main world sailors, François Gabart with Macif. In third, PRB with Vincent Riou. The 3 first boats arrived very close after many miles racing. That seems a good sign for the Vendee



The first leg:


Last edited by PCP; 05-26-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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  #2565  
Old 05-26-2012
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Re: Dazcats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Most catamarans today are fat, slow and have lot's of interior space...but not all. I like the ones that are not fat and are fast.

I like Dazcats:
Hi Paulo,
I like Dazcats too.
But the Cat that really caught my attention last year when I was looking at Cats & Tri's - was the SCAPE 39 Sport Cruiser. Built in SA. Check it out.

39 Foot Sport Cruiser Catamaran

..sorry, I don't have a clue how to post photos
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  #2566  
Old 05-26-2012
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Scape 39

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemier View Post
Hi Paulo,
I like Dazcats too.
But the Cat that really caught my attention last year when I was looking at Cats & Tri's - was the SCAPE 39 Sport Cruiser. Built in SA. Check it out.

39 Foot Sport Cruiser Catamaran

..sorry, I don't have a clue how to post photos
That's an interesting one and also a very fast one...but with a very small interior. I guess that the Dazcat offers a better compromise in what regards cruising, at least with the family.

Now for a couple...that is an interesting boat but then you lose the advantage cats have over trimarans (interior space). For the same interior space (and price) I would always prefer a trimaran over a cat




take a look at this trimaran:

http://framsblog.wordpress.com/

http://www.fram.nl/

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-26-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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  #2567  
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Vor 70

That has been a hell of a race. They have changed course plenty times and the moves are quite unpredictable. Just play back the race the last 36 hours and see that weird dance of changing courses. Right now they are all on the anti-cyclone zone and without no wind making ridiculous low speeds.

The first boats that got wind will gain many miles.

It seems to me that would be Abu Dhabi (that seems they have a really advantage) and Telefonica that will be able to recover some of the miles they have lost over the other boats or even overtake them.

Just some hours for them to pick that wind

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Race Data Center
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  #2568  
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Re: Salona 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Anyway that is good only for light wind and no waves conditions. That should give an advantage to the lighter boats and that makes even more noticeable the time of the XP 38 that would be much more at ease with more muscular conditions:

Xp 38 - 02:05:54, faster than two IMX 40 - 02:07:04 and 02:07:40, leaving behind an Arcona 460 - 02:10:30, a Arcona 400 - 02:14:25, a First 40.7 - 02:13:08 and a Salona 37 - 02:15:53.

These guys were competing in ORCI and I assume they were between the best teams.
I can't say for sure what the reasons were for the good performances of this boat but I can think of a few possible reasons; the Xp 38 is new with new sails which is allways a good thing; it's an advantage to have a high rig in this area which is very close to land (many were probably of the same height in this start group but the First 36.7, Dufour 34 and X-332s, which were the smaller boats in this start, came in last); in these light and shifty conditions it might actually be good to have a heavy boat since they will drift through areas where there is no wind at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, the times of some trimarans that departed only 10 minutes later were very good, with special mention to the Nacra F20 Carbon - 01:26:50 and the Seacart 30 - 01:41:16.

The Super Maxy 100ft racer that was the first boat on the water and supposedly the faster was beaten in real time by the little Nacra 20 by a considerable margin I guess that the guys on that big racer should thank the race organization not having the little boat racing along whith them. It would be embarrassing
The super maxi should actually, according to the Srs rating, be just slightly faster than the Nacra and significantly slower than the M32 and Seacart. It sure would have been fun to have the Nacra and the maxi in the same start group A reason for the results in the multihull division might be that the Nacra and M32 are light and fast enough to fly a hull and be very fast in these light conditions. The Corsair 36 (which btw lost its mast during the regatta I attended last weekend) is quite heavy (3,7T) and have a relatively high rig in this start field, which might have been good for them. The Dragonfly 28 (3rd place), Corsair 31 (6th place), Dragonfly 25 (7th place) and Corsair 27 (8th place) are allways in top positions, so good skippers I assume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
But when we have a look to the time of cruising trimarans the story is different: a cruising Dragonfly 35 on its faster version (Extreme) only managed 02:31:00, a worse result than the one of a Salona 37 that has much more interior space. I guess that with more wind the story would be different. I guess that for trimarans even more than in monohulls weight is paramount to performance.
I saw a picture of the Dragonfly 35 in this race with the asy hoisted with the sheet corner (what is the word for that?) forward on the bow pole, so I guess they don't really know what they are doing

//Mr W
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  #2569  
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Re: Dazcats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Most catamarans today are fat, slow and have lot's of interior space...but not all. I like the ones that are not fat and are fast.

I like Dazcats:
I really like the concept of the Dazcats as well, though I'm not to fond of the design. I like the more modern design of the southern ocean 47. They claim that the Dazcat 10 used to be their bestseller, so I think it's a shame that they haven't made a new design of this size. They do seem to be fast boats in a breeze

Have you seen the new Broadblue Rapier 550, designed by Darren Newton (Dazcat) and Nic Bailey? Now that looks promising :

Rapier550 | BROADBLUE | The World's Finest Catamarans

//Mr W
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Re: Europe warm up: Last test before the Vendee Globe

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Groupe Bell, very nice boat. Arriving at Cascais in 6th place. This one going to be one of the main contenders on the Vendee Globe, with Kito de Pavant.

Here, the same boat last year duo sailed going fast:
That is brutal sailing! I can see myself in a Pogo 12.50 on vacation with my family going fast just like that!

//Mr W
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