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  #2581  
Old 05-28-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
I'm waiting for the first designer that launch a 38' - 40' cruiser/racer scow. I'm sure that more than one is now drawing it.
Racer/ cruiser I don´t know, as W pointed out this would be mostly a downwind boat and would have an horrible rating for racing. Now, a solo 40class racer or a boat like the Pogo cruiser (that is a performance cruiser but not a cruiser racer) that is a completely different story and I believe you are right regarding that.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2582  
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Classical boats: Antibes

The teaser: Just beautiful

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  #2583  
Old 05-29-2012
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VOR design evolution or the evolution of sail boat design on the last 10 years.

Great article published in Voile and Voiliers about the evolution of VOR design that is a bit the story of the evolution of modern sailboat design since you can find most of this evolution on performance cruising boats and even on cruising boats.

It is amazing how much boat design evolved in 10 years.

I will just post an Image calling the attention for the full article by François Chevalier.

On this image you can see the huge evolution between the 2001 Far plans (above) and the ones from Juan K (2011):



The article is very good and deserve a good reading. If you don't read French put it on a translator it will be worth the trouble.

Volvo Ocean Race, des VOR 60 aux VO 70 - Exclusif : les plans des voiliers de la Volvo depuis dix ans ! - Annonce bateaux - Annonces bateaux - Occasion Bateaux - Occasion Voiliers - Occasion voiles

I had already noticed that the actual VOR 70, even if on the surface seem quite similar have quite different hulls. Just look at the last images on the article and see how different are the hulls.

Look at what is happening on the VOR and you will see that the boats have different performances according with the wind and sea condition. For instance now that they are power sailing at speeds over 20K, Groupama is the fastest, closing on everybody but on the last leg with weak to medium winds not even the huge talent of Cammas could bring the boat near the winner (Puma).

This fantastic design evolution had taken place because several designers could work inside the box rule proposing different solutions. This evolution and the things that have been discovered on this boats entered on the knowledge of the NA community and were used on all sorts of sailing boats, one way ot another.

The most successful designer of the last years was Juan K.

Now they want to finish with all that story of evolution due to bright and different designs transforming the VOR in a one class race and the one that is going to design the boats is not JK but Farr

This is a bad idea. This race is so expensive that it would not be some hundreds of thousands of dollars that are going to be spared with this solution that will make any difference in a race budget and the disadvantages in what regards boat evolution are going to be huge.


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  #2584  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Wow!
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  #2585  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

that one is really great!
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  #2586  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Racer/ cruiser I don´t know, as W pointed out this would be mostly a downwind boat and would have an horrible rating for racing. Now, a solo 40class racer or a boat like the Pogo cruiser (that is a performance cruiser but not a cruiser racer) that is a completely different story and I believe you are right regarding that.

Regards

Paulo
I'm not sure that the rating will be so horrible. I haven't how estimate the rating, but from 3 years I was simulating a scow in my computer with very limited software and I concluded that this desing is the point between a catamaran and a monohull. Sailing upwind the boat works as a catamaran if the wind is over 10 knts and for sure will be fast, sailing downwind works like a windsurf and will be very fast. I found that the advantages of a scow boat are greater in lengs over 30 feets. But it will very slow upwind in less than 8 knots. But I'm only a mechanical engineer, not a naval engineer, so is very probably that I'm wrong.

A Pogo 12.50 with a scow bow and 2 meter longer mast would be a success.
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  #2587  
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Bath tub boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
I'm not sure that the rating will be so horrible. I haven't how estimate the rating, but from 3 years I was simulating a scow in my computer with very limited software and I concluded that this desing is the point between a catamaran and a monohull. Sailing upwind the boat works as a catamaran if the wind is over 10 knts and for sure will be fast, sailing downwind works like a windsurf and will be very fast. I found that the advantages of a scow boat are greater in lengs over 30 feets. But it will very slow upwind in less than 8 knots. But I'm only a mechanical engineer, not a naval engineer, so is very probably that I'm wrong.

A Pogo 12.50 with a scow bow and 2 meter longer mast would be a success.
That is about what David Raison says about its bath tub bow mini. As you know he is the designer, the builder and the skipper

David Raison, skipper et designer du 747 Teamwork Evolution

As I have said the worst situation for this boat would be upwind with waves. The boat would not only be slow as very uncomfortable.

That is also the worst sailing position for a Pogo 12.50. That bow would make worse and more uncomfortable the Pogo upwind performance and I don't think that would be advisable or desirable.

I believe the next boats with that bow would be 40class racers that are mostly downwind racers like the Minis and on that extra performance downwind and at high wing angles will more than compensate in speed the worse performance upwind with waves or with weak winds.

Regarding performance cruising boats I don't expect bows has radical but the conception that a boat bow has to be absolutely sharp for a fast boat certainly was blown apart and I expect to see some more rounded bows even if not to the extent of this one. Even a slightly rounded bow will represent an advantage regarding cruising space namely space for the anchor winch chain and sail locker and will provide more righting moment to the boat.

I am very curious about the things to come in what regards this innovation on cruising and racing. I hope also that a slightly rounded bow will not look so ugly in a boat.



Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-29-2012 at 03:07 PM.
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  #2588  
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VOR: Incredible Images with a whale on the way

Look how Camper narrowly avoids a whale. Jesus that was a close call!!!




Great news guys, not only the race is HOT as to make things better from now one the race would be practically live:

The tracker normally updates every three hours with each position report, but with the fleet less than 1,000 miles from the Lisbon finish line with just 66 miles splitting first-placed Abu Dhabi to Sanya in sixth, the 2D tracker now update every 60 seconds.

They all go over 20K in a tight pursuit and winning miles over the Farr boat that will not resist long to the superior performance of JK boats on this kind of sea and wind conditions. Look at the speeds: Abu Dhabi is in this conditions 1.5 to 2K slower than the competition. They should catch it in about a day.




But to make things more interesting they will only have these conditions for more 20 or 24 hours, after that they have to negotiate 250Nm with very unstable and weak winds and if they manage to catch Abu Dhabi till they enter that zone it will be the one with a best strategy, the one that will catch first the Portuguese trade winds that will win.

Or maybe we get lucky and have several boats racing alongside to the finish line.


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  #2589  
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Re: Bath tub boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is about what David Raison says about its bath tub bow mini. As you know he is the designer, the builder and the skipper

As I have said the worst situation for this boat would be upwind with waves. The boat would not only be slow as very uncomfortable.

Regards

Paulo
My job I think it was parallel to David's time, only mine is only the work of an amateur. The big difference is that my design has a bow that looks more like the bow of the Melges Scow, ends in a sloping surface that when the boat is heeled functions more like a normal bow, just that leaning forward at the opposite angle to a traditional vertical bow. Sorry, but when mi previous PC died I lost my work, then now I haven't pics to show.
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  #2590  
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Vor 70

Just look at this drag race All over 20K. What a movie




But I was wrong, Abu Dhabi has been able to maintain the distance to Puma...but Grupama and Telefonica are winning big time over Puma and Abu Dhabi and maintaining the distance between them.

Telefonica is at 10Nm from Groupama, Groupama is at 8Nm from Puma and Puma is maintaining about 30Nm to Abu Dhabi.

They will be charging at this pace for less than 10 hours. That is not going to be enough for Groupama or Telefonica to catch Abu Dhabi but should be enough for Groupama to catch Puma.

Abu Dhabi is making a great race and will start the last play with 10 or 15Nm of advantage over everybody….but that is assuming the same strategy and course and Groupama and Camper are already diving to Lisboa while all the others are still pointing more to the North.

That’s what I have I was talking about two possible courses for the last part of the race: Direct to Lisbon with less wind or more to the North on the Portuguese Coast and then down with the Portuguese trade winds. What is the better route?

Obviously I don’t have a clue, it all depends on the winds they will find (or not) on a very narrow stretch, something like 80 or 100Nm that can decide the winner. They will be weak and variable winds but these boats don’t need much wind to sail. After that they will have a perfect wind to Lisbon.

Of course even if they need little wind, they need some wind…if they fall in a hole without any wind they can stay there for hours and everybody is going to overtake them.

Big play, great race

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Race Data Center

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