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  #2711  
Old 08-22-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Pics or it didn't happen! You lucky bastard!
HI Smack,

You will have pictures when I am back at home because internet here are really slow and I cannot get the pictures loaded. Pictures in October I promise.

A rectification about Montenegro: Kotor is great and some other small coves but the Police and customs stink: They think they are not there to help you but to control you. A big difference in what regards most European countries: It stinks.

I am at Korfu, Greece. First night after a 26 hour passage from Budva to Errikousa - Nice place to anchor with an wonderful smell (herbs) and today I am eating very well at a Taverna in Ormus Kalami, a nice cove in Corfu (wonderful Uzo).

About the boat, with small front sail (100 genoa) and without downwind sail, going butterfly I can get 7.5/ 8.5K deadwind, with 18/20 wind: Nice

Today with 14 to 16k at 90 degrees, 8.5 Knots and in a way that did not scare my wife (20 degrees heel).

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 08-22-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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  #2712  
Old 08-22-2012
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Re: Dragonfly 28 Sport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
So, yesterday I was out on a test sail with the Dragonfly 28. There was a 8-10 knots breeze with gusts around 12 knots to start with, flat water. I sailed with the swedish Dragonfly represantative, only the two of us.

Started with main (44 sqm) and jib (24 sqm) on a beam reach with speeds around 7-8 knots. We rolled out the code 0 (45 sqm) and speed increased to around 9-12 knots.

Wind then increased to 10-12 knots with 14 in the gusts and we gybed back and hoisted the asymetric spi (105 sqm) on a broad reach, doing 10-12 knots steady, with our top speed of the day at over 14 knots. At this point the boat feels absolutely wonderful, it flies over the water and the ride is super smooth! I could go on forever!

We then turned back upwind, again with main and jib. I can´t say for sure but I think we were tacking over 85-90 degrees, doing 8-9,5 knots of boatspeed, sailing very upright in comfort.

Then it was time to end the test sail and we headed back home to the harbour. This boat is so versatile. Close to the harbour we folded the boat in a couple of minutes, decreasing beam from 6,5 to 2,5 meters. Absolutely amazing folding system on these boats!

The inside of the boat is a bit smallish, alot smaller than the 32, but still very thought through. The v-berth is quite beamy actually, should sleep two adults without problem. The aft bunk underneath the cockpit is a bit small, only 1 meter wide. I think it will suite the kids well, they are still small. It is possible to sleep on both sides in the saloon as well, but passage to the toilet and v-berth is on the starboard side of the saloon table so it´s a bit inconvenient to use the starboard bunk.

The optional cockpit tent is really nice! It creates another room on the boat. Very important I think on such a small boat. The cockpit is pretty roomy especially since it has no main sheet track. Six people can sit in comfort with the tent up.

There is a two burner stove and a sink in the galley and some shelves and lockers. The fridge is under the raised floor on the port side of the saloon table and is good sized.

Storage for clothes and other items is at first sight a bit inadequate, but look closer and there is acutally some storage space under the bunks and some other places. You can´t bring your whole wardrobe but I think that for my family storage space might just be enough. Sails etc can be stored in the floats.

The overall quality and finish seems high and even though the boat is foldable it still feels very rigid when sailing. There was a Honda 15hp outboard which was more than enough for this 2,000 kg boat. It was raised and lowered by pushing a button, which is not possible with the 10hp standard engine. A tiller link made maneuvering very easy.

Here are a couple of videos of this boat, I think one of them was published earlier on this thread:





I woke up this morning, still with a smile on my face. I think this boat will be hard to beat!

Cheers!

Mr W
I have said it alreradY: Buy the dammed boat and invite me to a test sail. Ask for a discount because after and I am going to test it and I am going to love it, I am sure and after all this thread has more than an half of a million hits, all people interested in modern fast boats...so free publicity deserves a discount

Regards

Paulo
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  #2713  
Old 08-23-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi everyone,
It has been a while since I was active on the thread. I have gone through all the 100 pages or so created since my last visit and want to share with you some more experience from my Opium 39 bought last year and located on the Swedish west coast.

Basic impression is as I wrote last year, after first season. As I feared you need to go the extreme, if I may say so, set up of a Pogo to be able to reach the figures Eric is qouting from his 12.50. I often get questions from people on the quay if the boat start planing early and to be honest, it does not. Basically you need big waves and a big gennaker in 20 knots + wind to start planing. So very much the same as any performance cruiser. But on the other hand we have so much fun sailing it anyway. As pointed out by Paulo, the feel of the boat is so crisp, like a Porsche, not a dull BMW and so comfortable so in the end you always arrive earlier than expected and with no bigger effort or problems.

Thanks to the twin rudders and good hull shape (?) you are always in control and it never stand on it's nose, as many modern wide beamed boats, but instead lifts is nose and take off, leaning on the aft leeward corner of the hull.

We try to find boats to compete with but always ends up with loosing them as tiny dots at the horizon behind us. Still without any magical numbers on the instruments but with a very high average speed due to good control and efficient set up. We also find the boat quite good at pointing, contrary to Erics note on the Pogo, both in low and high winds, but of course perhaps not as good as a competent sailed pure performance cruiser.

Switched to a bigger gennaker (130 sqm) this year and it is a very good size for the boat.

We still marvel at the excellent storage space and the very good look out of the boat through low and big cabin top windows and even level between cabin sole and cockpit.

So in summary, it does not plane very easily, at least not loaded with windlasses, bikes, outboards, dingy, bow thruster, inlines, beer, wine etc. But it shurely beats any Xp38, Arcona 400, Dehler 41 or other similar in my books, taken into consideration the whole package. As my fellow countrymen Mr W seems to think, my closest alternative, perhaps besides the new JFK 38 would be a Dragonfly.

Regards, Anders
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Last edited by JAndersB; 08-23-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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  #2714  
Old 08-24-2012
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Opium 39, Solaris 37.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi everyone,
It has been a while since I was active on the thread. I have gone through all the 100 pages or so created since my last visit and want to share with you some more experience from my Opium 39 bought last year and located on the Swedish west coast.

Basic impression is as I wrote last year, after first season. As I feared you need to go the extreme, if I may say so, set up of a Pogo to be able to reach the figures Eric is qouting from his 12.50. I often get questions from people on the quay if the boat start planing early and to be honest, it does not. Basically you need big waves and a big gennaker in 20 knots + wind to start planing. So very much the same as any performance cruiser. But on the other hand we have so much fun sailing it anyway. As pointed out by Paulo, the feel of the boat is so crisp, like a Porsche, not a dull BMW and so comfortable so in the end you always arrive earlier than expected and with no bigger effort or problems.

Thanks to the twin rudders and good hull shape (?) you are always in control and it never stand on it's nose, as many modern wide beamed boats, but instead lifts is nose and take off, leaning on the aft leeward corner of the hull.

We try to find boats to compete with but always ends up with loosing them as tiny dots at the horizon behind us. Still without any magical numbers on the instruments but with a very high average speed due to good control and efficient set up. We also find the boat quite good at pointing, contrary to Erics note on the Pogo, both in low and high winds, but of course perhaps not as good as a competent sailed pure performance cruiser.

Switched to a bigger gennaker (130 sqm) this year and it is a very good size for the boat.

We still marvel at the excellent storage space and the very good look out of the boat through low and big cabin top windows and even level between cabin sole and cockpit.

So in summary, it does not plane very easily, at least not loaded with windlasses, bikes, outboards, dingy, bow thruster, inlines, beer, wine etc. But it shurely beats any Xp38, Arcona 400, Dehler 41 or other similar in my books, taken into consideration the whole package. As my fellow countrymen Mr W seems to think, my closest alternative, perhaps besides the new JFK 38 would be a Dragonfly.

Regards, Anders
Hi Anders,

You have been so long away that I was worried:i have recommended that boat to you and I was affraid something was wrong. Glad to know that you and the family like the boat and suits your lifestyle.

Regarding what you say about the boat, it meets my opionion except that story about beating a XP 38 (or a similar boat). You will go faster downwind but upwind, specially with some wind and waves, the XP will go away sailing more comfortably.

By the way I have read a test sail of the new Solaris 37 on a French magazine (voile and Voiliers) and as you know the French hate to say good things about Italian boats. What they say also confirms my opinion about the boat: Not as fast as a XP38, but a lot of speed in style. They say as a conclusion:

"An impecable compromise: With an interior space of a cruiser boat and performances of a race boat the Solaris 37 is directed to demanding owners that don't want to lose in comfort nor speed. Easy to sail by a couple it is a very attractive sailboat but the very high building quality doesn't make us forget its high price. "

Now if you have the money (the boat tested costs with VAT about 350 000€) that could be an ideal boat for most couples,specially the ones that sail a lot upwind

Some speeds with the standard small front sail (Jib):

5k wind at 50º: 4.3K

10K wind at 70º: 7K

14K wind at 70º: 8K

11K wind at 50º: 7.5K

Regards

Paulo
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  #2715  
Old 08-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi W,

It seems to me that the Dragonfly 32 is too expensive for you and I find the 28 a bit cramped for cruising.

Have a look at this one:

Advancecruising C329 Trimaran Repliable Transportable Aluminium

Aluminum Carbon boat with enough space for cruising. Interesting concept. Not as fast as the 28 but maybe fast enough at a very interesting price.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2716  
Old 08-24-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paulo,
after all time spent evaluating boats I kind of wanted to spend my time sailing :-). By the way, congratulations to your boat choise, I hope you enjoy your cruise. I myself just sailed some 35 Nm in 4 hours and 14-16 knots of wind from 90 degrees TWA from Gothenbourg to the big in water boat show at the Hallberg-Rassy yard. Among other boats the new RM 1260 is here.

Anorher intersting notice from the big Tjörn Runt race that took place last weekend (around 430 boats took part) is that the new H-R 412 won it's class and was 8th overall (with furling main). Overall winner and 3 more of the top ten boats where First 40.

Regards, Anders
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Last edited by JAndersB; 08-24-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  #2717  
Old 08-27-2012
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Hanse 345

Hi Folks

It has been a while but I am still a regular visitor to this forum. My focus has become more boat specific so I spend a lot more time on the Hanse owners forum as a Hanse 350 owner. It is an amazing resource for anyone new to sailing and covers a range of topics that are boat specific or general in nature.

Which brings me to the purpose of this post. Hanse will be premiering a new boat that is to replace the Hanse 355 which replaced the Hanse 350 called the Hanse 345 at the Southampton Boat show. I don't think I can upload an image of the new boat from my iPad so have a look at this link. It is a stunning looking boat IMHO
Hanse Yachts

My thoughts on the new Hanse 345

LOA/LWL- 10.40/9,50

Slightly shorter than the H350. Longer waterline length favours the 350.

Beam - 3.50

Slightly less beamy than H350 whose beam is 3.55. Surprised they didn't introduce chines for even better form stability

Displacement - 6.2 tons

About the same as the H355 with its non cored top sides but quite a bit heavier then the H350 at 5,763 with it's cored topsides. Hanse's are not the lightest cruiser/ performance cruisers around

Keel - 2,030

Love the torpedo keel even if they do snag laid lines from time to time They have made this a stiffer boat with better reserve stability by increasing the weight relative to the displacement compared to the H355. I would say that the form stability will be the same.

Draught - 1.87

Decent draught, similar to H350 and H355. Good balance between windward performance and being able to go places

Sail area - Mainsal - 32.5: Jib - 22.5 Total 55

Less sail area than H350 which has 35 mainsail and 29.6 headsail giving total of 64.9. A heavier boat with less sail area and less waterline length will make the H345 cruisier in nature and slower than the H350.
Set up is still with large mainsail and self tacking headsail which should be controlled IMHO by at least a pad eye in the cockpit set-up and preferably a main sheet traveller in the cockpit and not mid boom sheeting.. Not sure if this is offered as an option but if it is I don't see where it would fit given the size of the cockpit table.
One of the design options more and more nautical architects are going for is to split the cockpit into a working area and a chilling out area. Usually the area behind the helm is treated as the working area and it is here that the traveller is sometimes accommodated. If I look at the length of the boom though, I don't think they have gone for this. A pity.
They have lowered the mast height quite a bit to 15.75 versus 16.43 on the H350 but don't seem to have compensated for the reduction by introducing a fathead mainsail or roach. There seems to be an adjustable backstay which is a good thing in my view. Many of the new boats are doing out without this.


SA/D - 17.6. D/L - 202

This compares with 20.5 and 182 for the H350. The boat must be slower and cruisier in nature. The twin wheels cockpit table and bathing platform seem to confirm this

B/D - 32.7 L/B - 2.97

Versus 32% and 2.98 for the H350. Both boats will be stiff particularly considering most of the weight is in the bulb. Still would have liked a chine personally for even more safety.

Interior/exterior

Still dont like the nav station. Looks like an after thought on the H345 and the H350/355
They seem to have improved stowage in the saloon
Poor transom design on H350 way better on the new H345 - no longer all that wasted space behind the quarter berths.
Like the clutch layout in front of the winches being led aft. Don't like only having 2 winches though
Love the new hatch and port layout for loads of light down below.
Love having the chartplotter at the helm
Hopefully they have sorted out a bowsprit. Have always thought that this aspect has been overlooked on the Hanse's. The Dufour 335 has an amazing removable bowsprit.
Shrouds are taken outboard which has some advantages but a major disadvantage in that you can't fit a big overlapping genoa which you can do on the H350 (but not on the H355) :-))))

I am sure the boat will be a dream to sail and the proof is in the way she sails. It does seem though that Hanse are moving the Hanse range towards the cruisier side and Dehler is occupying the performance cruiser side.
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  #2718  
Old 08-28-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Guys!
I like to let you know that we finally purchased a our fast bluewater cruiser. See below...
This is a used Outremer 50. 8.5 tons, 0.7 m draft and lots of space.
The decision for this boat evolved as follows:

1. Big fun while sailing a Pogo 40: Speed is great! And the Pogos simplicity.
2. Plan for circumnavigation with 2 kids. Need for boat with low loss in value.
3. Low draft very appreciated. Same as speed and simplicity.
4. Pogos (e.g. 12.50) have not enough comfort (e.g. no doors, too basic pantry)
5. Skipped purchase of a house due to other reasons.
6. Visited Catamaran Outremer to check out the 'narrow hulls' and 'limited omfort' people talk about. Seen that this is may be correct from the multihull standpoint but from the monohull standpoint the comfort is enormous.
7. Tried to get the build No.1 of the new 45 model. Unfortunatey it got postponed till 2014.
8. Decided to buy one of the few Outremer 50 due to the even more space. Handling is managable. Anchoring instead of marina anyway preferred.

Our voyage will start next April... Until then we will do some work on this boat.
Attached Thumbnails
Interesting Sailboats-pnp2.jpg  
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Last edited by myocean; 08-28-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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  #2719  
Old 08-28-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paulo.

This is a long thread, so I just try to ask you about this boat directly. I hope you don't mind?
Do you know any option to get this Sirius 32 DS in the NA market? Or, is there any boat builder in NA you know about, who could produce similar quality and design? It would be nice not to fly to Europe and ship it over to the West Coast.
Thanks.

Laszlo



Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won’t believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Paulo
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  #2720  
Old 08-29-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Hi Guys!
I like to let you know that we finally purchased a our fast bluewater cruiser. See below...
This is a used Outremer 50. 8.5 tons, 0.7 m draft and lots of space.
The decision for this boat evolved as follows:

1. Big fun while sailing a Pogo 40: Speed is great! And the Pogos simplicity.
2. Plan for circumnavigation with 2 kids. Need for boat with low loss in value.
3. Low draft very appreciated. Same as speed and simplicity.
4. Pogos (e.g. 12.50) have not enough comfort (e.g. no doors, too basic pantry)
5. Skipped purchase of a house due to other reasons.
6. Visited Catamaran Outremer to check out the 'narrow hulls' and 'limited omfort' people talk about. Seen that this is may be correct from the multihull standpoint but from the monohull standpoint the comfort is enormous.
7. Tried to get the build No.1 of the new 45 model. Unfortunatey it got postponed till 2014.
8. Decided to buy one of the few Outremer 50 due to the even more space. Handling is managable. Anchoring instead of marina anyway preferred.

Our voyage will start next April... Until then we will do some work on this boat.
Congratulations, definitively an "Interesting sailboat".

Regards,
Anders
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