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  #2771  
Old 10-05-2012
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First 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
I had not read that the Beneteau First 40CR was not selling well. Any idea if this is actually the case and, if so, why the boat is struggling in the market? Its predecessor - the First 40.7 - was extremely successful, particularly on the race course under IRC and offshore (Sydney-Hobart, etc.).
Hi! One of the ways you have to see if a mass production boat is doing well is looking for the charter market. Yes there also a charter market for performance cruisers even if smaller than the one regarding the one for the typical cruiser: In Croatia were the charter market is huge the Benetau importer has a big fleet of 35 a fleet of 45 and not one 40.

Don’t make me wrong I like the dynamics of the boat its looks and even its interior, fact is that I sounded two years ago the Croatian importer to know about the price I could get one for me and he said to me, he would make me a special price because it was the 1st First 40 he was selling!!!! These several years after the boat were on the market.

The boat that sells badly is the Cruising one, the one that they advertise on the site and is called CR. It is a low tech boat, not even a cored boat (heavy), the one that is inexpensive and that was made to be sold in large numbers.

The top racing boat, the lighter and cored boat (much more expensive) for top racing sells well and is a very good racing boat, especially with bad weather and lots of upwind sailing, but the market for those boats is very limited. The one that they should be selling in large quantities is the one for performance cruising (CR) and occasional club racing and that is the one that is not selling.

Go to the net and search for used boats and what you get would be few boats and mostly expensive top racing boats, not performance cruising boats.
The direct competitors like the Dufour 40e or even Salona are selling much more and that is odd been Benetau a market leader.

I can only speculate why the boat does not sell well in what should be the most popular version (CR), basically for performance cruising and club racing but I strongly suspect that has to do with the anchor locker that is shallow and will not take a chain and with the very small removable lateral cockpit lockers. A cruiser, performance or not, needs a good anchor locker with at least capacity for 50m of chain and decent storage on the cockpit, not small removable lockers. That is for racers.

Yes I agree, the First 40.7 was and is hugely popular and was sold in large numbers, but that one was a good cruising boat with a decent chain locker and decent storage on the cockpit.

Best regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-05-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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  #2772  
Old 10-05-2012
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Italia 13.98

New boat and I have to say I love this one: Italian style, that means less beamier than the French ones, more classic but not on the performances. The boat is very light, very stiff and very fast.

I like the look, a classic look mixtured with modern design. I like the interior and the performances. Probably I don't like the price.

The boat was tested by Toby Hodges from Yachtingworld magazine. He favors beamier styled boats, with the beam brought back and even so the guy was really impressed...with everything, from performances to the finish.

The videos:






and look at the performance with very light wind. Look at the banner, sometimes they are probably sailing with 5K of real wind. Look how the boat glides and "makes" wind. Really impressive.

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  #2773  
Old 10-05-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

paulo,

I have now heard of at least one SF3600 that is bought based on the plans alone. That person has been buying sf3200 every other year or so since out. I believe he is a dealer owner in the UK. He and another fellow seem to sail a lot of the SH/DH races in and out f the uk. This could be a hot seller for Jeanneau if as you say, a bit bigger, faster, easy to sail by one or two people. Along with a decent interior, coastal cruisers may like it.

The SF3200 does seem to have some issues being sticky in lighter airs, but get the wind up, she fly's, So hopefully since the designer owns a 3200, he has figured this out, and can design the new one to work in a broader wind range!

Marty
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  #2774  
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Mini Racing

Thanks Marty

Take a look at these Images: Mini racing at its best. Nicolas Boidevezi on the last Les Sable - Açores - Les Sables. He won the leg Açores - Les Sables and we can see how. Jesus that is sailing fast



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  #2775  
Old 10-06-2012
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Fun

Out of topic but this is FUN and I want to share. It has not even sails but what the hell, it is a watercraft and one that makes you like a flying fish

take a look:

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  #2776  
Old 10-07-2012
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Dufour 36 performance

I had posted already about the new Dufour 36 performance, I saw the boat on the Dusseldorf boat show and was impressed with the interior that is amazingly detailed for a performance boat and will make this boat a very nice cruising boat.

Posterior testing showed that this boat was not only relatively fast but very easy and agreeable to sail. A very interesting boat for someone that wants a faster boat than an average 36ft but want a true cruising boat with all details and amenities.

Take a look:





http://tv.yacht.de/video/Dufour-36%2...884c07d0bee023

Well I have to say that even if that somebody seems to love this boat I would like very much to see a comparative boat test with several boats in the water. I have to say that I have more than some doubts about the compared sail performance of the Dufour. Yes the hull is very nicely designed but...the boat is heavy and has a comparatively small B/D ratio and that does not allow it to carry much more sail than the competition so I have many doubts that the boat would be comparatively fast in light wind or in a breeze with some heavy sea, where the bigger ballast B/D ratio would be more important.

Yes I believe the performances from 10 to 14K would be very interesting but out of that...I think the boat would be comparatively slow. But after all is not between 10 and 13K of wind that most cruisers like to sail?

Some numbers:

Dufour 36p sail area 72,1m2, weight 6400kg

First 35 sail area 72,5m2, weight 5500kg

Salona 35 sail area 69,5m2, weight 5300kg

Elan 350 sail area 68,6m2, weight 5350kg

Dehler 35 sail area 72,0m2, weight 5520kg

J 109 sail area 59,8m2, weight 4944kg

Comet 35s sail area 80m2, weight 5500kg

Archambault 35 sail area 67,5m2, weight 4450kg

well, I could go on, but I guess you get my drift I don't believe in miracles.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2777  
Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

paulo,

That looks like the issue with the 34/34e previous version. Correct "fast" design, but to much wt for the SA to move at a reasonably rate of speed. There is a 34 shoal keel of all things near me, I've beaten it boat for boat a number of times. Rating has been lowered to match its performance. Then again, when the owner usually has a crew of newbies out of a sailing school, with them learning........I still should not be able to beat it!

SF3600 plans/specs etc should be out at the Paris boat show per HERE! out of the horses mouth shall we say!

Marty
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  #2778  
Old 10-07-2012
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Dufour 34 and 36 performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
paulo,

That looks like the issue with the 34/34e previous version. Correct "fast" design, but to much wt for the SA to move at a reasonably rate of speed. There is a 34 shoal keel of all things near me, I've beaten it boat for boat a number of times. Rating has been lowered to match its performance. Then again, when the owner usually has a crew of newbies out of a sailing school, with them learning........I still should not be able to beat it!

...

Marty
Are you talking about one of the late versions, the one they call the first from the "performance" line?

That one was not too bad with 5400Kg for 65m2 of sail (not very different from what I had in my old Bavaria 36 that was 70cm bigger). Anyway the new 36 has only more 70cms and weights 1000kgs more.

That is a lot.

It is expected that new performance boats to be lighter than the previous versions, not heavier. To put things in perspective the Salona 38 that is 50cms longer weights only more 100kg than the Dufour 36 and was a much bigger proportion of the overall weight in ballast. If we consider only the boats without the ballast, the Salona 38 is considerably lighter.

The Dufour has 1900kg of ballast, the Salona 2270kg. The Salona 38 has 88.4m2 of sail and the Dufour 36 72,1m2. Both boats have about the same weight but the Salona has not only much more sail as also more RM. I really don't understand why everybody is saynig so well about the new Dufour 36 in what regards its sailing performance. I guess that if they tested the boat out of the wind rage were the boat should perform well (10 to 13K), especially if it was a comparative test, it would help to clear the water.

34E - Performance - DUFOUR Yachts

36 - Performance - DUFOUR Yachts

Technical data - Salona Yachts


Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-07-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  #2779  
Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

The 34 I am talking about, is a 34e but before the e was added to the 34 part of the equation. I've seen it sail faster than me, but at times it is slower, it should NOT BE! I've seen some threads on sailing anarchy with some saying the 34/34e is not as fast as it should be either. Kind of a bummer frankly. I like the look etc.....My boat from what I can tell has an irc of about .87 or there abouts. If both are equally sailed, I should not be beating it!

Marty
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  #2780  
Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes, the Dufour 34 has about .94.

Regards

Paulo
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