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post #2771 of 6763 Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

The 34 I am talking about, is a 34e but before the e was added to the 34 part of the equation. I've seen it sail faster than me, but at times it is slower, it should NOT BE! I've seen some threads on sailing anarchy with some saying the 34/34e is not as fast as it should be either. Kind of a bummer frankly. I like the look etc.....My boat from what I can tell has an irc of about .87 or there abouts. If both are equally sailed, I should not be beating it!

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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post #2772 of 6763 Old 10-08-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes, the Dufour 34 has about .94.

Regards

Paulo
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post #2773 of 6763 Old 10-08-2012 Thread Starter
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new boat: Sense 46

You can like it or not but the Sense concept changed the way the interior/exterior of a sailing boat was designed. The Sense series offers a living space that no other boat of the same size matches. True, it has fewer cabins, but for living at the marina or anchorage the boat offers a true loft and a great exterior space, all well designed in a true contemporary styling.

The 46 offers a lot, in what regards living quality. To entertain and receive friends it is just great. It sails well for what it offers and this one has even a decent B/D ratio (29%) for this type of boat and type of keel . That and the huge beam should give it a big stability and the ability to sail with little heel.

Some photos and some videos:




















Last edited by PCP; 10-08-2012 at 05:49 PM.
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post #2774 of 6763 Old 10-08-2012 Thread Starter
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Crazy multihull sailing

Allright, they are Australians...but even for Australians the sailing is...over the limit. Even cruising boats sail at the edge

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post #2775 of 6763 Old 10-08-2012 Thread Starter
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Boat of the Year, Voile magazine

I have already talked here about a different boat of the year, the one from the Voile magazine that is chosen by readers, journalists and guests, a lot of people, not by mail, but voted after having sailed the nominated boats on the sea at the same time.

This year they got 30K wind gusting 40K and the winner was a surprise (well, not for me), the JPK 38 that had beaten all the other boats, at least in the opinion of the ones that had sailed them.

The second place, that one was a surprise for me, the Benetau Sense 46. I guess that on the post about the boat I was right in guessing a big stability for that boat. It seems it passed with flying colors the 40K wind.

Next it comes the J70 and that is no surprise because these guys (I mean the readers of that magazine) had already shown that they like J boats. Last year the winner was the J111.



After the podium, it comes the new RM 12.60 and then the Pogo 50.






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post #2776 of 6763 Old 10-09-2012
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Re: Dufour 36 performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Some numbers:

Dufour 36p sail area 72,1m2, weight 6400kg

First 35 sail area 72,5m2, weight 5500kg

Salona 35 sail area 69,5m2, weight 5300kg

Elan 350 sail area 68,6m2, weight 5350kg

Dehler 35 sail area 72,0m2, weight 5520kg

J 109 sail area 59,8m2, weight 4944kg

Comet 35s sail area 80m2, weight 5500kg

Archambault 35 sail area 67,5m2, weight 4450kg

well, I could go on, but I guess you get my drift I don't believe in miracles.

Regards

Paulo
Hi Paulo

You forgot a Hanse 350 from your list

Hanse 350 - sail area 74.6 with 140% genoa; weight 5,763 kg; SA/D - 23.6!!

All the best

David
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post #2777 of 6763 Old 10-09-2012
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Re: Dufour 36 performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I had posted already about the new Dufour 36 performance, I saw the boat on the Dusseldorf boat show and was impressed with the interior that is amazingly detailed for a performance boat and will make this boat a very nice cruising boat.

Posterior testing showed that this boat was not only relatively fast but very easy and agreeable to sail. A very interesting boat for someone that wants a faster boat than an average 36ft but want a true cruising boat with all details and amenities.

Take a look:





Dufour 36: Kraftpaket im Test - Yacht TV - Segel Videos von Europas größtem Yacht Magazin

Well I have to say that even if that somebody seems to love this boat I would like very much to see a comparative boat test with several boats in the water. I have to say that I have more than some doubts about the compared sail performance of the Dufour. Yes the hull is very nicely designed but...the boat is heavy and has a comparatively small B/D ratio and that does not allow it to carry much more sail than the competition so I have many doubts that the boat would be comparatively fast in light wind or in a breeze with some heavy sea, where the bigger ballast B/D ratio would be more important.

Yes I believe the performances from 10 to 14K would be very interesting but out of that...I think the boat would be comparatively slow. But after all is not between 10 and 13K of wind that most cruisers like to sail?

Some numbers:

Dufour 36p sail area 72,1m2, weight 6400kg

First 35 sail area 72,5m2, weight 5500kg

Salona 35 sail area 69,5m2, weight 5300kg

Elan 350 sail area 68,6m2, weight 5350kg

Dehler 35 sail area 72,0m2, weight 5520kg

J 109 sail area 59,8m2, weight 4944kg

Comet 35s sail area 80m2, weight 5500kg

Archambault 35 sail area 67,5m2, weight 4450kg

well, I could go on, but I guess you get my drift I don't believe in miracles.

Regards

Paulo
Hi Paulo

Thanks for sharing. An awesome looking boat with some great features inside as well. Perfect for performance cruising but there will be other boats that will be faster.

Some stats

D/L - 168 compares wit 153 for First 35 so nothing in it
SA/D - 19.2 compares with 23.7 for the First 35. The weight issue you have highlighted is definitely counting against it. Both boats have shrouds outboard so not much scope to increase the size of the headsail
B/D - 29.7 compares with 30.4 for the First 35 so not much in it. Both have chines and a torpedo so weight will be low down. Both boats should be stiff in a blow. There are obviously other competitors with higher B/D's
Displacement - excluding keel - 4,500kg versus 3,830. Probably due to cored topsides on the First 35 versus non core on the Dufour but definitely a big difference

Just my opinion

David
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post #2778 of 6763 Old 10-09-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Dufour 36 performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ;931125
Hi PauloHanse 350 - sail area 74.6 with 140% genoa; weight 5,763 kg; SA/D - 23.6!!
daviid
All the best


You forgot a Hanse 350 from your list

David
Hi David,
Because the Hanse is not advertised as a performance cruiser, or cruiser racer as some like to call them. However you are right it seems that even a good mainstream cruiser like the Hanse can be faster than the Dufour, at least in some conditions. Well, the Dufour looks like a fast performance boat and the Hanse does not

Quote:
Originally Posted by daviid View Post
Hi Paulo

Thanks for sharing. An awesome looking boat with some great features inside as well. Perfect for performance cruising but there will be other boats that will be faster.

Some stats

D/L - 168 compares wit 153 for First 35 so nothing in it
SA/D - 19.2 compares with 23.7 for the First 35. The weight issue you have highlighted is definitely counting against it. Both boats have shrouds outboard so not much scope to increase the size of the headsail
B/D - 29.7 compares with 30.4 for the First 35 so not much in it. Both have chines and a torpedo so weight will be low down. Both boats should be stiff in a blow. There are obviously other competitors with higher B/D's
Displacement - excluding keel - 4,500kg versus 3,830. Probably due to cored topsides on the First 35 versus non core on the Dufour but definitely a big difference

Just my opinion

David
You are right about the B/D ratio. I never noticed that the First 35 had also a low B/D ratio for a performance boat. Funny, the First 40 that is also a Farr design and looks like a bigger 35 has 38%, the same kind of keel and a bigger draft (2.45 to 2.2m). That is strange because regarding the same type of boats, smaller boats have normally a bigger B/D ratio.

The other boats I have listed have a bigger B/D ratio. In fact 29/30% is the norm with a modern keel for a mainstream cruiser. Performance cruisers will have normally at least 33%.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-09-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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post #2779 of 6763 Old 10-09-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paulo

Looks like a performance cruiser to me.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

All the best

David
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post #2780 of 6763 Old 10-09-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by daviid View Post
Hi Paulo

Looks like a performance cruiser to me.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

All the best

David
I didn't say that the Hanse is not a beautiful boat. I have said that the Dufour 36 looked like a cruiser-racer and the Hanse didn't. I was referring to things like the traveler on the back of the boat, near the wheel, removable cockpit lockers and a cockpit and winch set up adapted to racing.

Nice boat and nice place too

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-09-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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