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  #2801  
Old 10-11-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

A thought I had the other day, this comes from an article the UK rag Yachting did a few yrs ago comparing an X34c to a Dehler34 when both came out. I'm wondering if DuFour is not shall I say detuning the rig so they are coming in just under the IRC division that breaks at .95 IIRC, ie the D34/34e being a .94 as you mentioned, so to be in the slower catagory on purpose, hoping that a slightly longer WL boat will make up for lack of SA/D. Xyachts in that article described doing this to a degree, so the X34 would not compete in the same division as the X35! Meanwhile, Dehler took the 34, and upped the SA/D etc so as to get about a .96-.97 rating IIRC, which put it in the next higher/faster division.

With this in mind......could Dufour be purposely sand bagging the speed on that line? Not sure why IMHO, but based on the article I can find online if you need to read it.......I'm inclined to say they have.

Marty
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  #2802  
Old 10-12-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

A thought I had the other day, this comes from an article the UK rag Yachting did a few yrs ago comparing an X34c to a Dehler34 when both came out. I'm wondering if DuFour is not shall I say detuning the rig so they are coming in just under the IRC division that breaks at .95 IIRC, ie the D34/34e being a .94 as you mentioned, so to be in the slower catagory on purpose, hoping that a slightly longer WL boat will make up for lack of SA/D. Xyachts in that article described doing this to a degree, so the X34 would not compete in the same division as the X35! Meanwhile, Dehler took the 34, and upped the SA/D etc so as to get about a .96-.97 rating IIRC, which put it in the next higher/faster division.

With this in mind......could Dufour be purposely sand bagging the speed on that line? Not sure why IMHO, but based on the article I can find online if you need to read it.......I'm inclined to say they have.

Marty
Maybe, but that is quite stupid for all except the ones that want to win on compensated time no matter if they are slow in real time. For that you can also buy an old and slow boat with a good rating. That's a lot less expensive.

Anyway for doing that you don't need to put more weight on the boat, you can just do that with a smaller mast and less sail area and that's a better solution in what regards making a good sailboat.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-12-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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  #2803  
Old 10-12-2012
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Americas cup

Just look at this

It is spectacular the way Artemis was able to avoid Oracle. That is F1 speed!!!


Last edited by PCP; 10-12-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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Stephens Waring & White

I love wooden boats and for many years I have signed "Wooden boats" a great magazine if you like classical boats. There are some expensive building techniques that can provide a low maintenance but generally if more traditional methods are used they need a lot of maintenance to remain in top shape (I know I have recovered and owned one for years).

If I had the money to pay to a skilled worker to maintain one and the money to maintain it in top shape I would probably fall in love with one. It is easy to fall in love with a wooden boat, they have a soul while plastic ones are just nice boats.

Among the ones that design wooden boats, with a classic look but a modern under-body Stephens Waring & White are among my top list. Just look at some of the boats:














Last edited by PCP; 10-12-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 10-12-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I think you have to give a nod to Spirit Yachts too....



Spirit Yachts Modern Classic Yachts
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  #2806  
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Classical fast boats

Thanks for posting, yes, Spirit yachts are very nice and fast:



But regarding those that are made in small series and are not absolutely one off, I just love this one. I guess that if I have the money I would be very tempted.








Regards

Paulo
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Great sailing video

Sailing is awesome. Enjoy

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  #2808  
Old 10-13-2012
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New boat: Grand Soleil 43 and GS 39

Now that Dusseldorf is approaching there are more interesting new boats coming to the market (to be presented at the boat show) than the ones I can post. You could give me a help on that

Certainly an interesting one is the Grand Soleil 43, especially after the big success of the 39.

Before talking about the 43 some more words about the 39.

When testing the 39 the tester from Yachtingworld mentioned that the boat had a problem on the steering and rudder being to easy to lost control.

I found that rather strange. I have read several other test sails about the boat and nothing was mentioned. Also the number of boats sold seem to indicate that is a very good sailboat. Of course to really know it that is the case I would have to try it but face to the number of other testers that did not mention that and on the contrary say that the steering is very precise I tend to believe that is just that. A racing car has a very light and fast steering, that a casual driver may find to fast and dangerous, it seems to me that it is also the case with the Grand Soleil. Nothing wrong with that if you know how to handle it, in fact the kind of sailors that will buy that boat will be looking for a steering like that.

Of course, I can be wrong, as the other guys that tested the boat, some in muscular circumstances. Anyway, before buying one I would test sail the boat to see if I like it or not but I would say that the chances are that I would like it. That is my style of boat.

Here you have another test by a Yachts and Yachting. They tested the boat with 6 to 9 K wind (and to be fair they could not have noticed what was referred by the YatchingWorld tester, that tested the boat with more wind. They say about the boat:

It is hard to fault the GS39 for ease of use. It was a delight to sail...the boat has space beyond her size, and yet will be easily sailed by two on extended cruises. ...A stiff, easily driven hull and excellent, high quality sail controls...

Yachts and Yachting Magazine


...........

Now in what regards the new 43 and looking at its technical characteristics I am particularly impressed by the D/B ratio (35%) considering that with that ballast the boat will have a 2m draft and a highly efficient torpedo keel. The ratio is even more impressing if we consider that the hull is not beamy by modern standards, but it not also narrow (4m) and that will give the boat a lot of hull form stability. So this will be a stiff boat, no doubt.

The boat is also light (8800kg) and that with the big stiffness will make it a very fast boat specially upwind on a breeze.

Grand Soleil - Cantiere del Pardo

On the outside it looks like the big brother of the 39 (the designer is the same) and if you liked that one you will like this one. The interior looks just great to me. It seems to be a great performance cruiser.

We will see if the test reports are as good as on the 39 and if the boat is as successful as the 39, that will bring the Grand Soleil shipyard to a very solid position. Is good to remember that some few years back they were almost bankrupt and were saved by Bavaria that bought them. it seems that they have made a great job, better than the one of Hanse with Dehler, maintaining the boat quality and helping them to be competitive again.


Some photos and a video with the first one being built.




















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Last edited by PCP; 10-13-2012 at 08:20 AM.
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  #2809  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paolo,

As you know I have both Pogo and Dragonfly on my shortlist, both very fast boats. I know the DF 32 will be faster than the Pogo 30, I suspect the DF might also be faster than a Pogo 12.50, although not by much. I saw a youtube clip of the mighty fast flagship Pogo 50, from EYOTY testing I think:



Well... maybe I should stick to three hulls

//Mr W
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Trimaran versus fast monohull

Hi, nice video, thanks for posting it!

There are no surprises there, at least for me. But they only show few images of both boats upwind and even so you could see that the Pogo points better and it is not properly a boat that points very well.

Here you can see some images of a J122 against a F31, that is probably faster than the Dragonfly 32, where that is evident.



This year I had the opportunity of sailing near a trimaran, I think it was a Corsair 31, both boats close upwind and that was very evident. We arrived at almost time at the same destination. The sea had some short steep waves that seem to slow it down more than they slow my boat and he only went clearly away when he arrive near shore and he got flat water. On worst sea conditions with more wind and waves I am sure I would not only be faster but would have a much more comfortable and drier sailing. After a given limit of sail and sea I can continue safely while he was to look for shelter.

I know we are talking about two different sized boats but a 30ft trimaran costs about the same as a 40ft sailboat and besides that would be the case even with a bigger trimaran:

If we look at the results of races that are made with Trimarans and Monohulls, even if that are downwind sails (transats) we can see that when the weather is ruff an Open 60 can normally beat a 50ft racing trimaran and also that almost all monohulls survive bad weather while the causalities on the trimarans are huge and many abandon with damaged boats or capsizes.

Of course, when they get good weather and relatively flat water the trimarans are much faster.

So, regarding your choice it all has to do with the use you are going to give to the boat. Sure, a trimaran would be more fun but it has its limitations, specially a small one like the 32 or even more the 27 and I am not talking only about the interior space or price.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-13-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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