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  #2861  
Old 10-25-2012
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Middle the sea race

While that incredibly fast j122 fights with an VOR60 (unimaginable but true Rolex Middle Sea Race ) some more movie, better ones:







These MOVIES are nicer and of better quality but you have to see them from the site:


Grand start for the Rolex Middle Sea Race | VSail.info


Rolex Middle Sea Race: Welcome


Giraglia Rolex Cup | Esimit Europa 2


And we can see that the winner is also a very narrow boat, much more than the VOR boats or RAN. I guess the Med likes less beamier boats


....

Last edited by PCP; 10-25-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  #2862  
Old 10-25-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,
Sorry old friend, bit of confusion caused by me re those last posts of mine. Suffice it to say I didn't take in the posts re the Hanse and went straight for the HR. Remember that I am not so concerned with the performance as you are and look more for acceptable comfort levels both inside and out. For that I feel the HR makes most sense, even over the Malo for me. That said, I would also much prefer either the Swede or XC over the Hanse.

If you remember we looked quite seriously at the previous generation Hanse 400 before we bought the Malo and to be frank it was our overall disappointment with the Hanse that pushed us towards Malo. At the time I'd have gone preferably for a Dehler 45, even over the Malo but there were none available even vaguely in our price range. Hanse for me is just too Ikea down below. Really poor quality fitout in every respect though I admit they have a wonderful layout, shame they make it out of papier mache. if all I wanted was a weekend cruiser that would not be embarassed around the buoys then I guess the Hanse would do but that is not my preference.

To clear something up re Malo .... I was referring to the Malo 43 not the 40. The 40 was (I think) the first of the new generation Malos, the successor to our own Malo 39. The Malo 43 is the last of the old school Malos, I guess a replacement must be due very soon. For me I think that a new generation Malo 43 would be a dream boat. everything our 39 has with a bit more performance and a bit more room down below.

As to the transom stern v reverse sheer ..... I confess that with the older boats I like the transom but with the wider backside of the new models it looks clumsy. The transom stern does however offer a lot more in the way of storage capacity in the lazarette.


Cheers

Andrew B
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  #2863  
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Sail Rocket

Vestas Sailrocket is closing on the Hydropter record



VESTAS Sailrocket 2 posted her personal best time of 50.98 knots over a 500 meter course with a peak speed of 53 knots.

Whilst the team is still dialling in the boat, these times are unofficial (not ratified by the WSSRC who govern the sport). ..

The time puts VSR2 only 0.4 knots behind Hydroptere's best 500 meter time. This means Hydroptere is still the fastest sailing 'boat' in the world... but only just. The Outright record is still over 4.5 knots away. The team are aiming for over 60 knots so are still frustrated by these speeds in the low 50's.


Well I like a lot more the Hydropter that contrary to this sailing machine is an offshore boat with capacity to sail with waves.

Some recent footage of the Hydropter some of it on the S. Francisco Bay:








Last edited by PCP; 10-25-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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  #2864  
Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi all,

I continue to follow this fantastic thread in lurk mode. So much to be gained here. I hope I can contribute some day. Special thanks to Paulo and the other regulars.

Regarding interiors, excuse me if this is a stupid question, but the thought arises.....I assume much of even higher end boats' interior surfaces consist of laminated wood trim on less expensive backing board of some sorts (marine grade plywood, etc.). Of course there's still a need for solid wood in high traffic/impact areas.

If one is ok w/ laminated wood for much of the interior surfaces, why not choose something other than plywood as the backing surface? I mean, why not "laminate" (choose whatever process you wish to affix to surfaces) the same really nice wood trim to something that is lighter and more resistant to water damage vs wood. Why not affix it to fiberglass or some structured, lightweight, impervious to water damage type surface? Of course you'd still likely use solid wood in certain areas, but why not have the best of both worlds: beautiful wood fascia while minimizing weight and avoiding the issues associated w/ wood?

Regards,
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  #2865  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Hi all,

I continue to follow this fantastic thread in lurk mode. So much to be gained here. I hope I can contribute some day. Special thanks to Paulo and the other regulars.

Regarding interiors, excuse me if this is a stupid question, but the thought arises.....I assume much of even higher end boats' interior surfaces consist of laminated wood trim on less expensive backing board of some sorts (marine grade plywood, etc.). Of course there's still a need for solid wood in high traffic/impact areas.

If one is ok w/ laminated wood for much of the interior surfaces, why not choose something other than plywood as the backing surface? I mean, why not "laminate" (choose whatever process you wish to affix to surfaces) the same really nice wood trim to something that is lighter and more resistant to water damage vs wood. Why not affix it to fiberglass or some structured, lightweight, impervious to water damage type surface? Of course you'd still likely use solid wood in certain areas, but why not have the best of both worlds: beautiful wood fascia while minimizing weight and avoiding the issues associated w/ wood?

Regards,
Thanks, you are welcomed

The problem is that people just like the look of those wooden interiors that are reminiscent of old wooden boats. It happens the same with teak decks and even if many Americans and some Europeans will prefer the boats without that, even almost all Americans will prefer teak on the cockpit. Of course it has no advantage and increases weight and maintenance but boats are not only a rational thing.

Regarding what you say, that is widely used on offshore racing boats, in some performance cruisers and in many fast multihulls.

One of the brands that use it and sells a lot of boats is Pogo. Here the 10.50:



here the 12.50:

Pogo 12.50 , Chantier Naval Structures from Andreas Lindlahr on Vimeo.


Other cruising boats like the RM that is made with Plywood and epoxy use the same material (plywood) on the interior. The RM is also a big sales success for this type of boat.

Have a look of the interior of the RM 1200






Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-26-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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  #2866  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The interiors you posted wasnt the point i was trying to make. I like the interior wood finish much better than the interiors you posted. I was making the point that the more wood one uses the more the boat will weigh. So i was pondering why they dont use a laminate (real) wood finish but laminate it to a lighter material so that you maintain the wood look without the weight and maintenance hassel.

Regards,
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Xp 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
The interiors you posted wasnt the point i was trying to make. I like the interior wood finish much better than the interiors you posted. I was making the point that the more wood one uses the more the boat will weigh. So i was pondering why they dont use a laminate (real) wood finish but laminate it to a lighter material so that you maintain the wood look without the weight and maintenance hassel.

Regards,
That is expensive and only makes sense in expensive fast boats. X yachts use it and I think not only on its performance line put also on the cruising boats. Off course, X yachts are very expensive boats.

I take the opportunity to post the first images of the new XP 55. That is a very fast performance cruising boat with capability to win regattas....and also to cruise in great comfort and in a beautiful interior.

Regarding that interior it is only possible in a very light and performant boat because all those materials, that look like real wood, are synthetic, strong, durable and very light. Off course, that has a price. I guess that make it like a HR, full of natural wood, would be less expensive













Regards

Paulo
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  #2868  
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Marina 36

Regarding the final results of the Middle sea race some comments about the performance of performance cruisers with less ore equal to 50ft (in real time):

As I have posted before, the more impressive results are from J122 (19º, 27º, 34º) . The fastest stayed at only a 13 hours and a bit from the fastest class 40 boat (16º), a Pogo40s2 (5d 0h 59m), that in a 5 days race is not much, considering that one is a racing boat and the other a performance cruising, but most of all he arrived 7 hours before the second 40class racer (23º) boat and left behind 2 other 40class racers (24º, 26º).

And that was not the only one, the second J 122 (27º) arrived only 6m after the last class 40 racer (26º) and the third one come also among the fastest 45fts, between a Comet 51 and a Xp44.

Curiously a J111, a racing boat has done not so good (40º) but I guess that has to do with the crew and not the sailing boat.

Among the other performance production boats that have done great and for this order, a Mylius 14e55 (17º) a Xp 44 (18º) a First 44.7 (32º), a First 45 (35º), a Comet 45.(37º) On the smaller boats two deserve mention, a racing Elan 350 (48º) and a boat that I did not know, a Marina 36 Carbon (44º), a boat made in Croatia (like the Salona) and that seems to be a very fast boat. Take a look:











The boat has 3.45m of beam, 2.45m of draft, 800Kg of ballast and weights 2450kg.

Even the normal cruising version weights less than 3000kg. Well, no wonder it is fast

I don't look at this results because I am interested in doing racing myself but just to see how the different boats and hull designs perform. I am interested in that

Comparing the result of these boats with a fast old one, a very well sailed Carter 55, the Elan 350 was faster by almost 2 hours and the best J122 by 14 hours.



And I say very well sailed because in compensated time the Carter 55 stayed one place ahead of the Elan 350.

...

Last edited by PCP; 10-26-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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  #2869  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Did anyone of read the article on YACHTING MOUNTHLY November 2012, of different types of cockpits? What each one is best suited for?
Do you agree with what is written there?
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  #2870  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by APP Mode View Post
Did anyone of read the article on YACHTING MOUNTHLY November 2012, of different types of cockpits? What each one is best suited for?
Do you agree with what is written there?
Sorry mate. After signing that magazine for a long time (since the 80's) I given up about a year back. In my opinion they turned too much to the conservative side of boating. I guess they were going after the readers and sailors that in UK are pretty conservative and has they had on the same group a magazine with more modern views (Yachting world) it would not make sense targeting the same market. Now they seem to have separated the waters. I signed Yacht and Yachting instead. It seems to me that one is improving a lot.

For many months Yachting monthly did not test a single new boat. It seems that they went to far and that is changing but even on the last edition: A test on the Vancouver 27? A boat that Northshore stopped to build years ago because didn't sold a single boat for years? A boat designed 30 or 40 years ago?

Regarding cockpits I don't know what they say about it but cockpits are a function of the hull shape or the type of the boat and the interior options. Center cockpit boats don't have that cockpit because it is best (it is not) but because that's one of the ways to manage to put inside a big aft cabin.

Old boats had tiny cockpits because they used much narrow hulls and that's the space they got for it, boats based on solo racers have huge cockpits because the boats have an huge beam and all the beam brought aft.

Its the type of boat that is important, the cockpit comes with the territory and that is not an independent choice.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-27-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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