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  #2891  
Old 10-30-2012
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Bavaria 33.

Well, in what regards new, the hull, it is the same that was designed by Farr some years ago, but all the rest is different.

It seems that it is the first one on the cruiser line that will share a new look, in the outside and inside... and it was needed. The actual line is, with the exception to the new Visions, ugly and with strong but not very well designed interiors. I mean they are practical but are ages away from the design quality on Italian and French boats.

I like the new design and interiors. Pity that this boat will not offer a traveler. Maybe a good dealer with good contacts on the factory can command one with reinforcements on the settee bench near the wheel to install one. Of course that will imply to ditch that table and have a removable one.







For the ones that are interested on this size an interesting comparative test between the new Hanse 345 and Bavaria 33 can be found on the last edition of yacht magazine, both boats at the water at the same time?:




Last edited by PCP; 10-30-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  #2892  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Amazing footage that ranks up there with some of the Volvo video. But I have to say that I'm a bit surprised by the general absence of PFDs, harnesses and tethers. I realize it's a "coastal" race, but in those conditions it's easy to get swept over the side, and at those speeds it would take quite some time to turn around and recover a MOB. Just saying.
Hi,..

the conditions are not that bad. For that wind there is not a lot of sea. But you are right, the speeds are amazing and it would take a lot of time to recover a guy overboard. Maybe a cultural thing? I guess in Europe people are more concerned about safety. All those rules and regulations for more inconvenient they are have the advantage to create a mentality where safety is a real concern.

Regards

Paulo
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  #2893  
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Hanse 325/345

Hanse 325:




Well, I don't understand why they have a relatively new 325 and now they make a 345. Less than a ft difference seems not to make sense in what regards a line but in fact the boats are very different. I don't think the 325 is a match for the Bavaria, that looks better and nicer but the 345 is another story and that's probably why Yacht magazine chose to make a comparative between the Bavaria 33 and the 345 and not the 325 that is closer in size and probably in price.

As I said the 345 is a very different boat and I like it. It seems to me the better design on the new line of Hanse: Not too beamy with 3.50 and with a high B/D for this class of boats (33%) the boat looks bigger than a 34ft and the interior looks better designed than on other Hanse.

I bet this boat is going to be a best seller notm only among the Hanse boats, but globally. A pity the lack of a traveller but maybe a big dealer can convince the guys from Hanse to put on the top of the cabin the necessary reinforcements to mount one.



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  #2894  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi there Paolo!

I havenīt checked in for a couple of days, you guys have really been posting!

As you know I have a weakness for lead free sailing... Say hello two some lucky bastards :


Cheers!

//Mr W
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  #2895  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
Hi there Paolo!

I havenīt checked in for a couple of days, you guys have really been posting!

As you know I have a weakness for lead free sailing... Say hello two some lucky bastards :
<....

Cheers!

//Mr W
Paulo, not Paolo

Well, probably you did not see these guys on a Jeanneau 3200 going fast. Ok, it is a lead one but also one that costs 1/3 of the Dragonfly. They say the max speed was 2K superior of the max one on that Trimaran and they don't say it is a record so.... The guys look also a lot less nervous



Since we are talking about the Jeanneau 3200, look at this guy racing on a Dufour 45e that cannot believe he cannot go faster than a small 32ft performance cruiser.

I cannot wait to see if the new Jeanneau Sunfast 36 will be faster



Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-30-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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  #2896  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Hanse 325/345

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hanse 325:

Well, I don't understand why they have a relatively new 325 and now they make a 345. Less than a ft difference seems not to make sense in what regards a line but in fact the boats are very different. I don't think the 325 is a match for the Bavaria, that looks better and nicer but the 345 is another story and that's probably why Yacht magazine chose to make a comparative between the Bavaria 33 and the 345 and not the 325 that is closer in size and probably in price.

As I said the 345 is a very different boat and I like it. It seems to me the better design on the new line of Hanse: Not too beamy with 3.50 and with a high B/D for this class of boats (33%) the boat looks bigger than a 34ft and the interior looks better designed than on other Hanse.

I bet this boat is going to be a best seller notm only among the Hanse boats, but globally. A pity the lack of a traveller but maybe a big dealer can convince the guys from Hanse to put on the top of the cabin the necessary reinforcements to mount one.
Hi Paulo

There is a rumour that the new H345 will replace the 325 and the 355 which would then make sense - the range would then be 345, 385, 415, 445, 495, 545, 575 and 630e

The Hanse owners website now has a separate section for the H345 - New Hanse 345 - myHanse - Hanse Yachts Owners Forum - Page 1

I have reviewed the H345 in this forum.

I think Hanse introduced the H345 in response to the Dufour 335. Both boats offer a lot of boat for their size and include some really interesting innovations. One point to note is the mainsheet system with Hanse opting for the coachroof block system and Dufour opting for a pad eye in the cockpit system that is fitted to the cockpit table.

Voile et Voilier in the November edition commented that the H345 offered pleasure with complete security and found the boat to be very seaworthy. At Euro 100,344 the new H345 will be hard to beat if you are looking for a cruiser of this size. Just my opinion as a Hanse owner without any other affiliations
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  #2897  
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Dufour 335, Hanse 345 and Bavaria 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by daviid View Post
Hi Paulo

There is a rumour that the new H345 will replace the 325 and the 355 which would then make sense - the range would then be 345, 385, 415, 445, 495, 545, 575 and 630e

The Hanse owners website now has a separate section for the H345 - New Hanse 345 - myHanse - Hanse Yachts Owners Forum - Page 1

I have reviewed the H345 in this forum.

I think Hanse introduced the H345 in response to the Dufour 335. Both boats offer a lot of boat for their size and include some really interesting innovations. One point to note is the mainsheet system with Hanse opting for the coachroof block system and Dufour opting for a pad eye in the cockpit system that is fitted to the cockpit table.

Voile et Voilier in the November edition commented that the H345 offered pleasure with complete security and found the boat to be very seaworthy. At Euro 100,344 the new H345 will be hard to beat if you are looking for a cruiser of this size. Just my opinion as a Hanse owner without any other affiliations
Hi David,

Difficult to comment on that because I agree with everything you say (and I am not a Hanse owner). I would like to just point out that the system Dufour and Bavaria had opted in what regards control of the boom and mainsail through the main-sheet has the advantage of a better position. I mean it is on the end of the boom and that contributes for a better boom control. Of course, Hanse has that system that pull the boom from two different sides and even if that is not as good as a traveler, it will also give some additional control.

The Dufour has the same system as the Bavaria 33 but has two additional lateral pad eyes om the side that permits a very good boom position in what regards downwind sailing that is one the limitations of the Bavaria system and in a lesser degree from the Hanse too.

In what regards having the commands at hand both Dufour and Hanse offer winches at reach of the wheels-man while the Bavaria has them more far away. Even if the Bavaria is a narrower boat and has no need of a two wheel system the fact is that on the other two (that have twin wheels) it is a lot easier to go forward.

The Dufour 335 has also a very nice interior and it is a very nice looking boat.

To be fair, some movies with the Dufour:








The truth is that most buy the boats by its looks by the interior and by the price. In what regards price the Bavaria 33 is a clear winner, costing almost 10 000 euros less than their rivals (71 667) while the Hanse 345 and the Dufour 335 are very close (83 900 and 83 283). Prices are in Euros and without tax and off course this is not the real price of the boats: This are standard boats and then you have to put all the extras, so to be sure about the boat prices you would have to ask for an offer with a decently equipped boat.

Regarding what people do not normally see, in fact these boats are very different: The Bavaria is less beamy (3.42 to H-3.50 and D-3.49) is lighter (5200kg to H-6200 and D-5450) but most of all has less stability, having a smaller beam and a smaller B/D ratio : (25% to H-33% and D-28%). In fact Dufour is well inside the average of B/D for these type of boats it is Hanse that is offering a boat with an unusual stiffness in this market segment. That stiffness and B/D is more typical of the more expensive performance cruisers.

In what regards the boats in standard version the Hanse is the one with a smaller Sail Area/Displacement and will be the slower in light winds: B-17.3, D-17.7 and H-16.6, but the Hanse due to its superior stiffness will be able to carry full sail more time and will be faster and safer in higher winds and bad weather.

Of course, to have the Hanse performing better in light winds you have just to have it with a bigger genoa but then you will pay more and will lose the self-tacking jib that is one of the brand trade marks. Both the Bavaria and the Dufour come standard with a genoa, not a jib.

If I had to choose I would pick up the Hanse and I would want one with a 135% genoa and a traveler over the cockpit. Now that would make it considerably more expensive than the Dufour

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-31-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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  #2898  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Since we are talking about the Jeanneau 3200, look at this guy racing on a Dufour 45e that cannot believe he cannot go faster than a small 32ft performance cruiser.

I cannot wait to see if the new Jeanneau Sunfast 36 will be faster


Regards

Paulo
Amazing vid, Paulo!

I have been a read-only for month, but now I REALLY need to know more abour the SF36. Is it announced yet, are there rumours? I am interested in the Salona 35s, so maybe I should wait for the SF...
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  #2899  
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Jeanneau SF 3200 / Salona 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Amazing vid, Paulo!

I have been a read-only for month, but now I REALLY need to know more abour the SF36. Is it announced yet, are there rumours? I am interested in the Salona 35s, so maybe I should wait for the SF...
Hi, and welcome

Yes it is known that the boat is going to be made. I would hope than on the Paris boat show we should know more even if it is improbable the boat will be presented there.

But I think you are mistaken. That boat is not going to be (or expected to be) in the same class as the Salona 35. The Salona 35 is a performance cruiser that is on the same class of the Dufour 36 performance, the Dehler 35, Comet 35, First 35, Elan 350 and many others.

They are slightly more expensive boats than what we call mass production cruisers have good interiors for cruising are more stiff and fast than those cruisers, have more sail area and have all the rigging and equipment that allows a better control of the sail shape. They are boats pointed to the cruiser that have fun sailing and that occasionally does club racing. The guys that have old boats or even more fat cruisers like to call then racing boats but they are really not.

Boats like the SF 3200 are much more Spartan in what regards interior, are lighter and more expensive and are pointed to guys that like racing and do occasional cruising. Of course one can really enjoy just cruising in a very fast boat and don’t use it for racing, but then it has to do that in a more Spartan way, and I mean not only the interior, but tankage as well. These boats are at half way between a pure racing boat, like the Farr 400 and a cruising boat.

The SF 3200 is on the same class of boats (and talking about 35ft) like the J111, the JPK 1010 and the Archambault 35. For them all the Archambault is the one that has a better cruising interior….but as I have said, it is not only a lot smaller than the Salona, as it is more Spartan with a lot less tankage and much more expensive. Of course, you can also order a Salona 35 in IBC specification, that will be a lot more expensive and slightly faster than a Salona 35 with a performance pack but I think that will only make sense if you will do a lot of serious IRC racing.

Just to see what we are talking about, a movie with the SF 3200, with the Salona 35 and with the Comet 35. Look at the differences in the interior.








Last edited by PCP; 10-31-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  #2900  
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Elan 400

Hereīs the latest addition from Elan, the 400!









And specs:

Overall Length 11.95
Length WL 11.26
Beam 3.87
Draft 2.40
Engine 40 hp
Water Capacity 310 liters
Fuel Capacity 170 liters

Mainsail 54.56
Genoa 37.6
Gennaker 135

Weight???

"Expected to be seriously fast and responsive, the Elan 400 will feature a completely rethinked and restyled interior, among the tried and tested VOR inspired wide transom, chined hull and twin rudders."

"In principle, it is an overgrown 350, but geared a little more towards IRC so that it does not fall outside of the measurement systems"

"It has been taken quite a lot more stability into the design with more weight in the keel and a narrower boat, proportionately, than the Elan 350"

Whatīs your opinion?

//Mr W

Last edited by Mr W; 10-31-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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