Interesting Sailboats - Page 301 - SailNet Community
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post #3001 of 6763 Old 11-13-2012 Thread Starter
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Vendee Globe

Big tactical game on the Vendee:

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

The race is not only about sailing well and having the fastest boat. It is also about strategy.

Let me point out another big difference with the Volvo Ocean Race: All know that one is a crewed race without scales and this one is a solo one without scales but some don't know another big difference: on this one they cannot have any outside help in what regards navigation neither they can receive any customized weather or routing information.

This is a huge difference. Not only one single guy has to sail the boat by himself as he has to choose by himself the best way in what regards wind/sea and overall speed. This is one of the things that makes this race great and those guys some of the best and more complete sailors on the planet. We have seen recently Groupama whose crew included many solo sailors, rookies on the Volvo, beat the best professionals in what regards crewed long distance races and Veterans on the Volvo. This is how good these guys are

So the tactical game is a main game on this race and it is at play right now:

I have said that François and others were choosing a course near the Canaries While Vincent was choosing a course near Açores. That's confirmed. Let's see how the game turns out. More wind and sooner to Vincent, more distance on the right direction and less wind for François.

François is just a rookie and a kid compared to Vincent without much experience on Open60 (at least solo) but probably the best of the new guys that come from the Figaro class that is also a solo boat that has transats on its racing program, so he knows a thing or two about rooting

Very interesting to see how to turns out this chess play between the Kid and the Veteran.


....

Last edited by PCP; 11-13-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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post #3002 of 6763 Old 11-13-2012
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Re: Vendee Globe

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****, I am really sad with what happened to Marc and even more with what happened to Kito. It is supposed the motorboats to keep away from sailing but I guess this one was fishing so it is Kito fault. The important thing is that he had to retire from the race and it is the second one do have to do so. Stupid accident
I just wonder how this could occur. Kito used AIS with 10 miles warning and most likely fishing boat had no AIS at all. But all Open 60 boats have radars and I have no single idea why Kito haven't used one for early warning?
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post #3003 of 6763 Old 11-13-2012
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Re: Vendee Globe

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Let me point out another big difference with the Volvo Ocean Race: All know that one is a crewed race without scales and this one is a solo one without scales but some don't know another big difference: on this one they cannot have any outside help in what regards navigation neither they can receive any customized weather or routing information.
Not sure if your are right about VOR and customized weather or routing information Check this article: Stan Honey - Sailing's Master Navigator "Well, in most ocean races they restrict you to receiving data that's free. So that means basically what you can use is US government data. The US government, because of our Constitution, says that once we paid for something as taxpayers, the government can't charge for it again. So the US government makes the global forecast system data, it's called GFS, available for free to everybody worldwide. So that's largely the data that you use during the race, because you can get that for free." Francois Gabart probably is using customized MaxSea pro version and no doubt these guys are not using auto routing



Last edited by G1000; 11-13-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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post #3004 of 6763 Old 11-13-2012 Thread Starter
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Elan 400

We have already posted about the Elan 400 and even compared it with the previous model. I have said that the boat had to be lighter, even if they didn't gave the weight, on account of the smaller sail area. Now they had given more information and yes, the boat is lighter with 7500 kg, considerably lighter than the previous model (8300kg) but I was hoping for an even lighter boat.






That is a similar weight to the Salona 41 (7450 kg) that is half a meter longer. Not very impressive, however the ballast ratio is a good one, with a B/D ratio of 33%. That, a torpedo keel and 2,40m of draft will make it a very powerful boat. In fact I believe that the ballast they give is not the one for the 2.4 draft keel, otherwise the ballast ratio would be 36% and not 33%.

Specifications Elan 400
LOA (hull length) 11.95 m
Total length 11.95 m
LWL (length at waterline) 11.26 m
Width 3.87 m
Draft Standard 2.40 m
Weight 7.5 t
Ballast / share 2.7 t / 33%
Mainsail 51.56 sq.m.
Genoa (107%) 37.6 sqm
Gennaker 135 sq.m.
Motorization 40 hp
CE design category A (ocean)

The boat is, like the other Elan, a Rob Humphreys Yacht Design & Elan Design Team and has an interesting stability curve with an AVS over 120º but most of all with an huge righting moment at 90º of heel, almost the same RM the boat is doing at 20º:

http://www.elan-yachts.com/img/yacht...lity_curve.pdf

The speed polar is also a nice one, but I guess that about the real speed we will only know or in the race course or through the ORCI file.

http://www.elan-yachts.com/img/yacht...ar_diagram.pdf

The interior seems to be a plain one but comfortable:





I guess I will have a better idea when I see the boat in Dusseldorf

Some would say that this boat is just a bigger Elan 350 and I guess they will be wrong. This boat is a very different boat in what regards hull design and particularly B/D ratio that is much bigger on this boat. This is a much better overall boat and probably a slightly worst downwind boat.

Take a look at the Transom design and the water line regarding the two boats. Can you see the difference?




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post #3005 of 6763 Old 11-13-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Vendee Globe

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Not sure if your are right about VOR and customized weather or routing information ...
Take a look at Groupama sailing team:

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Groupama sailing team

The navigator is Jan-Luck Nélias and is not aboard the boat, it is part of the team but not part of the crew, or at least it seems to be that way. I cannot find the rules.

Here an interview with him:

Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | A cautionary tale from navigator Nélias

Regards

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Re: Vendee Globe

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The navigator is Jan-Luck Nélias and is not aboard the boat, it is part of the team but not part of the crew, or at least it seems to be that way. I cannot find the rules.
Strange, other teams have navigators onboard. Maybe rules were changed, but the article says "Then before the race, you can pay for data, so there are lots of different models we use, and lots of different contractors and consultants. I'll contract with people like Ken Campbell at Commanders' Weather, to be a professional consultant, and I'll pay for data from places like the ECMWF [European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts] model. But once the race starts, then you can only use free data that is publicly available to everybody."
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Re: Vendee Globe

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Strange, other teams have navigators onboard. Maybe rules were changed, but the article says "Then before the race, you can pay for data, so there are lots of different models we use, and lots of different contractors and consultants. I'll contract with people like Ken Campbell at Commanders' Weather, to be a professional consultant, and I'll pay for data from places like the ECMWF [European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts] model. But once the race starts, then you can only use free data that is publicly available to everybody."
Yes, but he says:

"Well, in most ocean races they restrict you to receiving data that's free".

http://yachtpals.com/stan-honey-4177

I had a link for the VOR rules but they have removed them. If you cab find them I will be interested in finding out

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-13-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

16.4 Meteorological information may only be obtained from the OA and publicly broadcast radio or publicly broadcast satellite transmissions. Meteorological information from the OA will be provided mainly as data in GRIB format and updated twice daily and available as required through race control. Additional information may be supplied such as surface analysis charts, satellite images. Failure of the OA to have available, or of Boats to receive, meteorological information shall not be grounds for redress. This amends RRS 62.1(a).

16.6 Unless specifically permitted in NOR 16.4 the receiving of e-mails from FTP-to email, Internet-to-email, WWW-to-email or email subscription services (paid or unpaid) is not allowed.

16.7 While Racing: sat-phone communications are not permitted to or from the Boat, unless: the OA, RC or a duty officer has pre-approved the call. Mobile telephones shall not be used and if carried on-board shall be sealed in a container or similar.

VOLVO OCEAN RACE 2011-12 NOTICE OF RACE: inc Amendment 12
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Vor

Yes, it seems you are right even if I wonder about this: "Additional information may be supplied such as surface analysis charts" I guess this can give plenty of insight because a surface analysis of the same situation can be made to point in several directions.

Anyway I cannot understand how the Groupama navigator is not part of the crewmaybe a mistake but is hard to understand why they have not corrected in all those months.

Even so it is completely different to have a specialized navigator on a team of eleven than to run all the boat by yourself and make also the navigation and that means a lot of time and concentration when you have to be attentive to the immediate needs of the boat. Difficult stuff I would say

Regards

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Re: Vendee Globe

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Big tactical game on the Vendee:

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

Not only one single guy has to sail the boat by himself as he has to choose by himself the best way in what regards wind/sea and overall speed.

So the tactical game is a main game on this race and it is at play right now:

I have said that François and others were choosing a course near the Canaries While Vincent was choosing a course near Açores. That's confirmed. Let's see how the game turns out. More wind and sooner to Vincent, more distance on the right direction and less wind for François.

François is just a rookie and a kid compared to Vincent without much experience on Open60 (at least solo) but probably the best of the new guys that come from the Figaro class that is also a solo boat that has transats on its racing program, so he knows a thing or two about rooting

Very interesting to see how to turns out this chess play between the Kid and the Veteran.


....
Well, 1-0 to François. Vincent played badly. But Armel and Stamm played right and I believe that they will gain some mile to François. who would have said, Stamm, the Swiss pissing the Fench

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

..
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