Interesting Sailboats

[HMoll]

Hey Paulo, keep them coming! One question: Why the aft bimini position? Only I can think of is for pointing more to the wind while at anchor?? Beautiful pictures of your Comet!

[PCP]

Originally Posted by HMoll

Hey Paulo, keep them coming! One question: Why the aft bimini position? Only I can think of is for pointing more to the wind while at anchor?? Beautiful pictures of your Comet!

Hi!, Thanks.

Regarding the bimini position what you say is an added bonus but the main reason is that it is the position that allows me to sail the boat properly tight upwind. That is the position that allows the boom to come down to the right position without touching it. Furthermore I found out that the position gives me a good eye protection against the sun. I am going to add on the back a vertical removable panel and that should give considerable more protection than if it was used on the “horizontal” position.

Regarding the boat I want to make some corrections and add some information:

It was said to me by the Mediaship seller that the boat had a steel structure to hold the keel and shrouds. That is not true (the guy does not work with Mediaship anymore). That is made by a reinforced grid that is laminated in the hull. On the other hand I had several reports of different sailors that know the boat that said that it was very strong (and I didn’t ask, they were spontaneous comments). One of them was a sailmaker, owner of a sail making factory that said: “This boat is massively strong. I know, I have crashed several while racing”.

Another thing I want to correct is what I have said regarding sailing with light wind. Yes the boat is fast but not as fast as a top Salona or probably a Pogo or an Opium. The boat is heavier and needs more sail. With a 130% genoa with 6K wind the Comet is not much faster than a modern light mass production cruiser with a 150% genoa.

Downwind I had several experiences with other boats, the last one was with an older Jeanneau Sun magic 44. Going downwind with 8/10 apparent wind the Jeanneau was slightly faster, when the wind picked up to 12/15K the Comet was much faster . In fact I was overtaken and then when the wind picked up I passed again and went away fast going between 8 and 8.5K. The Sun Magic had a big 150% genoa and I had a Jib as front sail.

The point here is that while a lighter boat could have with lighter winds a top performance with small front sails definitively the Comet needs more sail. That puts some problems for a solo sailor in what regards the choice of sails: The Jib is a fantastic sail for strong wind and the Comet works with it in a way I never saw in other boat. When I had all other sails for repair I had a week of sailing with only that small sail and found out that with 24/27K of apparent wind I could go at 30º (up wind) doing 7.5K with a very light rudder and a well balanced boat.

The bad news is that, as I have pointed out, that sail is insufficient for light winds and of course changing sails on the sea alone is not practical considering that when I change to the jib there are already at least 14K wind and some sea.

In Fumicino (Rome) I had the opportunity to exchange ideas with a good sailmaker (Speed sails speedsails) and although he has more experience with racing, together we came up with some interesting solutions: When I can I will change the 130% front sail for a 140% and I am going to have the Jib permanently mounted on the deck in a bag, with a removable textile stay (already on the boat) with textile links. It can be left in place and in that case I have to see how hard it is to tack with it there or more probably, with everything in place I will put the stay, the sail and the bag stored in some place further back in the boat, probably along the life lines.

Well, this is the negative part.

The positive is that the boat has an incredible rudder, very sensitive and that can take a lot of abuse giving an excellent control over the boat even when it is sailed with too much sail. The boat has also a big stability and a soft motion in transitions, much more than in a lighter boat where the behaviour is more dinghy like. The boat has also a very good pointing ability. Till now I have yet to find (on the sea) any other boat that can match it. The difference to a modern mass production cruiser is really big and to a cat is huge, like 15 or 20%, if we sail upwind with waves. The boat is also very comfortable and doesn’t slam. Comparing with the Bavaria 36 the difference is huge and I believe it will be also big if compared with modern performance beamy boats, like the Pogo.

Bottom point, this is a medium weight performance boat and that means more sails than a light performance boat for the same speed. That will not be a problem with a crew but solo sailing is certainly a disadvantage.

The advantage is that the boat is not so dinghy like in its reactions, being slower on the transitions and a bit more comfortable and stable in what regards gusts of wind. It is also a very fast boat upwind with medium winds or strong winds and a formed sea, where the small wave drag will give it an advantage over boats like the Pogo or the Opium, that will be faster downwind and in other conditions.

I hope not to be too partial about this and have contributed to give an idea of the characteristics of this type of boats (medium weight performance cruisers). What is said to this boat will be valid to a First 40 CR, a Dehler 41 CR or a Dufour 40e.

Similar type of boats but lighter, like the Salona 41 or the Xp 38 will have similar performances with medium winds but will need less sail with light winds (will sail faster) and will start to plan with less wind downwind and that will make them faster there too. Anyway we are talking of winds near 20k or over and most cruisers will stay on anchor when the weather service give storm warnings (burrasca), I mean with force 7 and over.



Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Talking about Salona, the ones that go to the Genova boat show, that is starting, will be able to see the first 41 IBC. IBC is the top performance Salona can offer on their boats. For a really fast boat that can do well in high profile races is still an inexpensive boat.

On the last ORC world championship Lenco, a 37 several years old won 2th place, this one:

Gallery - Salona Yachts



Not only he made silver but on the top ten, out of 79 boats there was 3 Salona 37 (the 38 has the same hull).

By the way, some new movies with the 38. I did not bought one but I still love the boat:





and finally some good pictures of the 35:

[blt2ski]

paulo,

have not looked in here for a bit, but rumour has it, Jeanneau will have an SF3600 to go with the now about 4 yr old SF3200. Or at least a tweet by Daniel Andrieu has implied, and an online article here, not that I can translate the francais!
Mon Voile Mag , Archive » Bientôt un grand Sun Fast 3200 ?

marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by blt2ski

paulo,

have not looked in here for a bit, but rumour has it, Jeanneau will have an SF3600 to go with the now about 4 yr old SF3200. Or at least a tweet by Daniel Andrieu has implied, and an online article here, not that I can translate the francais!
Mon Voile Mag , Archive » Bientôt un grand Sun Fast 3200 ?

marty

Hi Marty,

Those are really hot news. From the French article is not just a rumor since Jeanneau has confirmed the rumor. Has you said it will be designed by the same team that designed the 3200 and they talk about a boat with the superior rating allowed in the transquadra (1050), so it should have between 38 and 40fts. They want to win it in real time.

After the big success of the 3200 they should have made this one, that will be a boat more adapted to cruising but Benetau did not allowed since it would collide with the First 40 cr in the clients it is aimed for. Now , probably because the First 40 cr sells badly they have green light. There are a lot of people that was waiting for this boat.

Please if you have more news post them here.

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

Paulo,

You have what I have seen from my sorta kinda inside sources. A bigger boat would be nicer all around, probably sell a bit more too.

marty

[PCP]

Surprise from Bavaria: they are making a new 55 to substitute the recent one designed by Farr and that was in my opinion an ugly boat, this one:



Surprise because the Farr 55 ia a very recent model and because the new one is very different in design and it seems to be a very nice boat. It does not look like a Farr design but a Finot/Conq or Marc Lombard design. Farr has changed his boat design to a French style or is not a Farr design?

Anyway Bavaria seems to have improved its design standards, first with the Vision series and now with this one. The interior seems very comfortable for serious cruising. Take a look:

[PCP]

And the big toys are on the water

First the NZ one:





then the North American one:



and a kind of resume of past AC:

[MrPelicano]

I had not read that the Beneteau First 40CR was not selling well. Any idea if this is actually the case and, if so, why the boat is struggling in the market? Its predecessor - the First 40.7 - was extremely successful, particularly on the race course under IRC and offshore (Sydney-Hobart, etc.).

[PCP]

Originally Posted by MrPelicano

I had not read that the Beneteau First 40CR was not selling well. Any idea if this is actually the case and, if so, why the boat is struggling in the market? Its predecessor - the First 40.7 - was extremely successful, particularly on the race course under IRC and offshore (Sydney-Hobart, etc.).

Hi! One of the ways you have to see if a mass production boat is doing well is looking for the charter market. Yes there also a charter market for performance cruisers even if smaller than the one regarding the one for the typical cruiser: In Croatia were the charter market is huge the Benetau importer has a big fleet of 35 a fleet of 45 and not one 40.

Don’t make me wrong I like the dynamics of the boat its looks and even its interior, fact is that I sounded two years ago the Croatian importer to know about the price I could get one for me and he said to me, he would make me a special price because it was the 1st First 40 he was selling!!!! These several years after the boat were on the market.

The boat that sells badly is the Cruising one, the one that they advertise on the site and is called CR. It is a low tech boat, not even a cored boat (heavy), the one that is inexpensive and that was made to be sold in large numbers.

The top racing boat, the lighter and cored boat (much more expensive) for top racing sells well and is a very good racing boat, especially with bad weather and lots of upwind sailing, but the market for those boats is very limited. The one that they should be selling in large quantities is the one for performance cruising (CR) and occasional club racing and that is the one that is not selling.

Go to the net and search for used boats and what you get would be few boats and mostly expensive top racing boats, not performance cruising boats.
The direct competitors like the Dufour 40e or even Salona are selling much more and that is odd been Benetau a market leader.

I can only speculate why the boat does not sell well in what should be the most popular version (CR), basically for performance cruising and club racing but I strongly suspect that has to do with the anchor locker that is shallow and will not take a chain and with the very small removable lateral cockpit lockers. A cruiser, performance or not, needs a good anchor locker with at least capacity for 50m of chain and decent storage on the cockpit, not small removable lockers. That is for racers.

Yes I agree, the First 40.7 was and is hugely popular and was sold in large numbers, but that one was a good cruising boat with a decent chain locker and decent storage on the cockpit.

Best regards

Paulo