Paulo, thanks for posting details of the Iroise - something different - aesthetically that stern styling looks like it could be more refined. The Allures 45 seems to have a better internal layout & flow
Interesting the comments several days ago re Nordship 430 and Allures 45. I spent a bit of time on both at Southampton show (berthed close to each other) and a lot to like.
The Nordship could be an easy long term cruiser. It has a huge hull volume but deals with it better than a typical fat production boat. Quality overall looked good for the price with less of the "manufactured" interior feel that even HR now have. In places the timber finishing was clearly "handmade" - not perfection but honest woodworking which is ok with me !
My only reservation with the Nordship is the raised helm position in what is really an "aft-mid cockpit" - you're quite high up off the water and feels like you're standing on the cockpit rather than in it. Not sure how secure that would feel in waves / stronger winds ?
The Allures 45 is very sensible - esp with the port aft utility space / workshop on that particular yacht. There's a lot of saloon seating but very little leg space for more than 4 people (unless they're all short !). Great raised nav station set-up. Don't like the way the fake teak stick-on is taken from cockpit seat up the bulkhead and onto coachroof, but guess thats optional. The YM test did highlight the performance drag when boats like this are fully loaded with cruising gear !
Otherwise the deck / hull joint was quite neatly done although the fibreglass moulding, 8mm joint and aluminum deck were all 3 different shades of white; which is a detail that could be done better (the new 39.9 has the hull/deck joint at the gunnel which should be a neater look).
Does anyone of you, tried to sail one of these models? If sailed Sirius32 or 38, Nordshipp 38 is ok.
Not me but some years ago I was very surprised when on a test sail between a Nordship DS 40 and a Wauquiez PS 40. with the two boats on the water at the same time, the Nordship 40 should up not only as a match as a slightly faster sailing boat. A friend of a friend has a Wauquiez PS 40 and the boat is fast, not a big difference to the Wauquiez 40 that is a performance cruiser.
I used to look at Nordships as boats with an wonderful interior but my idea was that they were on the slow side. The designer keep saying me that they were now fast boats (the new designs) but I used to give to what he said a big discount. Well, it seems that in this case there was no discount to be given and he was right: Fast sailing boats for luxury DS sailboats, no doubt.
Regarding the Sirius 35DS the boat weights 7 400kg and has upwind 53.5m2 of sail area. The Nordship 36 weights 6500kg and the up wind sail area is 67m2, both boats with main and jib. Both boats have modern hulls keels and rudders so the Nordship is a much faster boat. That does not mean that the Sirius 35 is a very slow boat for the type of boat but will make a Nordship a very fast one (for the type)
Now to give you a better picture of the sail performance let's compare it with one of the most recent 36 performance cruisers, the Dufour 36 performance: Weight: D-6400kg....N-6500kg; Sail area: D-72.1m2 .... N-67m2. Impressed, well you should be especially because that difference on the sail area is even smaller because the Dufour sail area is taken with a 114% genoa and the Nordship with a jib. Bottom point, surprisingly the sailing performance of the Nordship 36 will have a lot more to do with the one of the Dufour 36 performance than with the one of the Sirious 35.
You can even race this boat and let a lot of guys with the mouth open
If you think you can detect a personal preferance for the Nordship 36 regarding the Sirius 35, you are right
If I had designed that boat (a 36ft DS) I would have changed nothing and I doubt that I could come with a visually nicer design and that's the best I can say about any boat.
I want to talk about something that the VG organization did his best to put under the rug, an incident that costed several hours of penalties to several sailors and that they had tried to ignore.
The incident has to do with colregs and the sea safety. The boats on this race as in any other race have to follow colregs and one of them is the procedure on the traffic separation zones.
Recently in the Round Britain and Ireland record breaking attempt by Marc Guillemot on 'Safran', British authorities have called Marc to be present to court for a gross violation of the rules while crossing TSZ zones and, has on similar cases, a big fine is to be expected.
The case with the Vendee Globe incident happened here:
And it would have been nothing special if the organization had acknowledge it and attributed the penalties, the problem is that even if they knew very well that some boats had broken the rules they remained shut and very quiet. It was necessary Alex Thomson (a British sailor) to question them about that and even so they did not take measures but demanded Alex to fill a protest if he wanted and only then they acknowledge the situation and delivered penalties. Alex had to do the paper of bad guy when they should be the ones to have taken care of the situation.
Some interesting comments from another site:
There has been a lot of contention regarding Traffic Separation Scheme’s (TSS) in offshore racing/record breaking recently. .. Now however, the penalties handed out to 7 skippers in the Vendee Globe 2 days ago by the race committee (and not by Alex Thomson, but more on that later..) has taken center stage....
Traffic Separation Schemes – ‘TSS’ are in place around busy commercial shipping areas to funnel commercial traffic (big ships) into specific lanes at key points, rather than allowing them to take their most economic route. Much like lanes on a road, they structure shippings routes, and are designed to limit the amount of times ships meet and converge, therefore reducing the amount of collisions. If you want to cross these lanes as a leisure craft, you can. To do this you must cross at 90 degrees, perpendicular to that of the ships, thereby crossing in the shortest distance. As soon as you enter the TSS, you must also go all the way across, no turning round halfway....
So what happened during the Vendee? And why the 7 penalties?
Very simply, 7 boats entered the TSS just off Finnisterre, and didn’t follow correct procedure across it. Some for just a matter of minutes before realising and gybing away, Mike Golding and Jean Pierre Dick for example, were as others crossed completely, but not at 90 degrees.
I understand that the sailing instructions/rules of the race, for the Vendee Globe 2012/3 state that normal COLREG’s, (collision regulations/rules of the road if you like) are to be adhered to if you want to cross a TSS. None of those 7 skippers did that, none sailed at 90 degrees and others turned around in it, therefore breaking not only the rules of the race, but technically the law as well. As you can imagine it’s important for race organisers to follow the rules of the road and the law with their events....
So why all the controversy?
The feeling amongst some skippers was that those who stayed in the TSS longer, or crossed it completely, gained a tactical advantage by doing so, and therefore they asked the Race Committee to look into it. The Race Committee then asked them to protest the boats believed to have infringed. Sailing is the most prolific self policing sport I can think of, and protesting is the only, just, fair and correct way for potential infringements to be looked at in more detail, so fair enough, and protest them they did. Why should there be a rule if some people are just going to ignore it, and gain an advantage by doing so?...
Unfair penalty distribution:
The way the penalties were handed out was also unfair. The committee penalised boats that were in the TSS ‘for up to 3 hours’ with a 2 hour penalty, so at worse case, 66.6% of their offence. Whereas Brit Mike Golding was in the TSS for 10 minutes and got 30 minutes, 300%. And Frenchman Jean Pierre Dick entered for 150 meters before realising and gybing out and got 20 minutes?! The scaling seems unfair...
Penalty taken on your own terms:
You can also do the penalty at your own discretion, when you see fit, even if it does have to be completed by a certain longitude or latitude. Meaning those who were sharp witted and did their ‘2 hour’ penalty whilst in the doldrums, when not moving for 2 hours anyway, could potentially have less of a ‘real life penalty’ to someone doing a 20 minute penalty whilst surfing along at 20 knots.This is a harder one to solve. Personally I think adding time at the end is fairer, and therefore better....
Another issue is that Alex Thomson, the skipper who raised the issue with the committee, asking them to look into whether some boats had crossed the TSS incorrectly, is now being heralded as the villain for his actions, especially in France. This is because the race committee asked him to protest the boats that he felt infringed, which he did. It’s a self policing sport, and happens all the time, nothing wrong there. What it did though was put the onus on him and not the committee. I don’t think this should have ever been the case, this was something they could have looked into and protested the boats for once it was brought to their attention themselves.
All this led to comments on the French version of the Vendee Globe website, many quite insulting (to put it politely) towards Alex, his team, and ‘les glouches’. A real shame as he is having a fantastic race so far.
Some claim it is a difference in how the French and British view the rules on this. But 3 French, 1 Spanish, 1 Swiss, 1 Polish AND a Brit got penalties? And at least 1 French skipper, Jean Pierre Dick, claimed to know the rule and ‘tried his best’ to avoid it…
This is a very interesting boat even if it looks just like another aluminum boat. It is made by one of the best French Aluminum shipyards and designed by Pierre Delion and Pierre Rolland. Rolland is well known for making racing and fast boats and this one, even if does not look like it, it is a fast long range cruiser. we could even call it a performance one even if its looks make that seems funny
t is not only fast as it has only 1.80m draft and it is a twin keel that can be beached on his legs. The secret of this fast all around long range cruiser boat?: It is a very weIll built boat with a modern hull and a agreeable and functional interior, a simple and very light one, but the secret is its overall very low weight. The boat weights only 9 900kg and that for a aluminum boat with 46ft is amazing. It has also a relatively high B/D for this type of boat (32%) and that and a 4.26m beam make it a powerful boat. Upwind it can carry 107 m2 of sail and downwind 198m2. That is enough to make this long range cruiser a fast sailboat.
Many times on the sailing program these boats promise a lot and don't deliver in what regards speed. Well, it seems that this is not the case with this one. The boat was tested by Voile and Voiliers and the performance is as good as they sugest:
With Main and Genoa:
12.0K wind at 35º trw - 7.5K.......13.8K wind at 80º Trw - 9.0k
13.5K wind at 90º trw - 9.2K.......9.0K wind at 90º Trw - 7.0K
with Main and asymmetric spy:
10.5K wind at 120º trw - 8.5K......12K wind at 160º Trw - 6.7K
I guess this boat on the trade winds with 18/20k will go effortlessly at two digit speeds and it will cross Oceans days ahead of the typical aluminum centerboarder. The boat could be nicer (even if I do not find it ugly ), but it is a hell of a boat
The price is an interesting one: about 330 000 full equipped with sails (including geenaker and assym. spy), generator, folding propeller and diesel heating (no tax included). A lot of boat for the money.
Look at how the boat glides without almost any wind:
My wife and I are impressed with the amount of boat building in Northern France. Not only sailboats but all types of boats from motor cruisers to working dive and working port boats. There seems to be a healthy small industry in building small amounts of boats, semi custom and most in aluminum. I know we are proud to be having a boat built from that part of the world.
After looking at the video of the marina where the ARC is leaving from I can see that our next voyage in a year or so will have a lot of the newer style of European cruising boats out cruising. On our last trip ending in 2009 there were few in the S. Pacific. Lots of older style American designed boats but I'm thinking there will be far less of them as time goes on and these old boats become tired no matter how much love they are given. That brings up another point and that is for many years American and Canadians were by far most of the cruisers at least west of the Atlantic. Unless N. Americans get on board with new ideas in boat design there will be less sailing the oceans of the world.
Thanks again for all the great pictures and videos in this thread.
Sorry I can not answer your PM as I do not have enough posts yet. Same with the quote I do not have enough to post links and tried to delete them. But was writing about the French aluminum boat builders and also to you post and link to the ARC video of the marina where the ARC boats were staying.
I believe you know well this boat but most of us don't and is just an incredible boat. A 32ft trimaran made of wood. Yes that brown color is real wood and it is a resistant boat. He was been raced hardly on the last 7 years and is still in one piece.
Length in total: 9,85 m.....Length overall centre hull: 9,2
Length folded: 11,50 m.....Beam max: 7,4m
Beam folded: 3,6 m.....Draft incl. centreboard: 2,0 m
Draft excl. centreboard: 0,45 m.....Max mast height over water level:15,50 m
Weight ready for sail: 1377 kg
Mainsail: 40 m².....Jib: 18 m².....Asymmetric Spinnaker: 85 m²
Design: Jan Skov Andersen
They say about the boat:
The trimaran “Barracuda” is a comfortable family boat as well as a fast sailing boat suitable for racing. The main hull is equipped with a pantry, WC, full standing headroom and 5 bunks. In the pontoons is space for 2 spare bunks and lots of storage.
With an easy to handle folding system the width of the trimaran can be reduced to 3.6 m, so it is possible to use an ordinary berth space in a marina. You can sail the boat directly on to many beaches, because of the kick-up centreboard and rudder. And not at least, because of the extra layer from Kevlar on the bottom of the main hull. You can carry “Barracuda” on a trailer to foreign destinations. Barracuda's weight is only 1.377 kg incl. everything from anchor to sail.
The trimaran “Barracuda” is built in Cedar strip method with west red cedar. Usually the wood gets sealed with fibreglass and afterwards painted. In opposite to this older method “Barracuda” is covered both inside and outside with transparent fibreglass. Barracuda requires maintanence like other fiberglass boats. This method is quite unusual for a boat in this size, but very effective. The construction of the trimaran is very strong and light. With this kind of finish you can admire the special beauty of the wood.
The boat has a very good cruising interior if we consider the incredible sailing performance (sorry about the low quality of the photos, but I guess that I will open an exception for this one. It deserves it:
Well the strategic play is on and it will be like that for at least more a day or two.
I had said I did not know who was right, Armel more to the East or Jean-Pierre more to West. Well, it seems it was Armel that won a lot of miles to Jean-Pierre but François, slightly West was the big winner. He won 20Nm to the leader (Armel). It is now at only at 34Nm...but has been at only 25.5K and is losing again
The weather pattern is complicated for all and Jean-Pierre, now at 159Nm is going even more to the West (big gamble) while Alex is closing on him (only 6Nm away) sailing much more to the East.
Interesting stuff and a nice way to learn ocean navigation, I mean rooting.