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  #3121  
Old 11-27-2012
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Trimarans

Since we are talking about Barracuda let's have a look at some other trimarans, cruising and racing ones, all hot





















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  #3122  
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Vendee Globe- Very interesting

.
Really amazing what is going one:

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

Play with the cursor on the red line on the bottom and on the top left click on weather and play with the cursor. Very difficult tactic decisions for everybody, very difficult weather pattern with a big high pressure center just ahead.

On the organization they give a big loss of miles to François. He would have been overtaken by Alex that would be now second but I start to believe that Jean-Pierre knew what he was doing when he sailed to West and now François has done the same. François have certainly big balls to have done that. He was just at 35Nm from Armel (1st) and if he followed him he would be out of this battle with the same 35Kn disadvantage. He don't want that. He wants the lead and he wants it now.

The organization says that he have lost 140Nm and is now at 175Nm from Armel but I don't buy it. I guess that there are a good chance for Armel to get stuck first in weak winds and then in contrary winds while him and Jean-Pierre will have good winds while turning around that high.

Great stuff guys, don't miss this strategic battle.

Breaking News

Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) torpedoes into second place at the 1500 GMT ranking today. Although he feels it will be short lived, “up to 2nd place on the rankings! Will be short lived when Macif and Virbac get the new wind first but happy anyway!”

Fleet News:

The jackal, Armel Le Cléac’h (Banque Populaire) is watching the fleet in his rear view mirror as he accelerates away from them. T...

Today, on the daily web tv show Vendée Globe LIVE hosted at the race headquarters at Montparnasse Station, Paris, France he said, “you cannot be sure of anything. I’m looking at the others. My northern strategy is clear. We’ll see how it goes in a few days. I’ll keep on with this plan. I’m passionate about these strategic moments. We are entering an important moment of the race. It’s very interesting to see how everyone is doing. At the beginning of the VG, it was more a speed race, now it’s becoming strategic.

So the three dimensional chess game that Mike Golding loves is now on. Jean-Pierre Dick (Virbac Paprec 3) despite losing ground is hoping that he has made the right call. “For the moment it’s ok. There is not too much wind. I like my position, I’ll deal with it. But I’m waiting for the wind. I try to remain rational. Sometimes you have to gamble. The strategy I have taken since the Brazilian coast seemed interesting. For the moment it is not very efficient but I thing it’ll go well in the coming days,” he said during the web tv show Vendée Globe LIVE.



Stamm is talking about to go up to the top of his mast...again. Jesus what is wrong with this guy

Bernard Stamm (Cheminées Poujoulat) is stamping his feet. The inevitably of finishing his onboard husbandry due to damage to his genoa earlier in the race will eventually have to be faced but he is not willing to sacrifice boat speed at this critical time. .. I don’t know when I’ll be climbing the mast again.

..

Last edited by PCP; 11-27-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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  #3123  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The boats to the west have an advantage for the next 24 to 30 hours . In that time frame they will have to east as the high is moving east pretty fast after the next 20 hours or so. There is a squash zone now forming to the west of the high with very tight isobars and 30 to 35 knots of wind. Those to the west now will have to ride the squash zone south easterly. If they can not catch the squash they will be in light winds and the boats to the east caught in the high will be in the right place in 24 hours to catch the compression zone.

I have a hard time trying to figure out where these boats will be in 24 hours as they go too fast for this cruising mind. As a cruiser I like to play the edges of a compression zone. I think these guys are hell bent on getting right in the middle of this one and running down wind like a bat out of hell.
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  #3124  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
The boats to the west have an advantage for the next 24 to 30 hours . In that time frame they will have to east as the high is moving east pretty fast after the next 20 hours or so. There is a squash zone now forming to the west of the high with very tight isobars and 30 to 35 knots of wind. Those to the west now will have to ride the squash zone south easterly. If they can not catch the squash they will be in light winds and the boats to the east caught in the high will be in the right place in 24 hours to catch the compression zone.

I have a hard time trying to figure out where these boats will be in 24 hours as they go too fast for this cruising mind. As a cruiser I like to play the edges of a compression zone. I think these guys are hell bent on getting right in the middle of this one and running down wind like a bat out of hell.
eh! eh! not only you. Welcome to the game. Yes it is funny and educational to try to understand what these guys are doing specially when they do different things and try to understand what is the better bet.

All those guys that are running on the front pack are masters on the art of rooting, so come in guys, join the party and give your opinion about their options. Yours is as good as mine, maybe better
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  #3125  
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Re: Vision Boats: Barracuda

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
This one is for you W.

Hi! Now you really got me going! I´ve seen the old Barracuda, but actually not the new one! This is something that could actually fit my needs.

To me, both the old and the new Barracuda has a lot in common with the Seaon 96 that I owned. You can actually spot a yellow Seaon in one of the videos. It´s really difficult though to know much about the boat just by looking at the pictures, like interior volume, etc. Hopefully the new one isn´t to small for me inside!

Here are some observations based on my previuos experiences that might apply to these boats as well:
The concept of a light boat gives some great advantages (and some disadvantages!). Handling becomes much easier because you don´t have to carry a huge amount of sail area to attain high speeds. I´d say this boat (the new design Barracuda) will certainly be perfectly fine with an upwind sail area of just 70sqm. I would prefer a larger fore triangle to be able to carry a larger self tacking jib (maybe 25sqm instead of 18sqm as specified) and instead carry a smaller head sail (maybe 45sqm instead of 53 as specified). Self tackers are a godsend when cruising with the family!
My Seaon (around 1600kg) had an 18 sqm self tacking jib, which was a bit small for upwind sailing in light winds, and a 43sqm mainsail. Very easy to handle, but still overall a fast boat. Now, let´s look at the Dragonfly 32. It has overlapping jib (30sqm) and large mainsail (57 or 58sqm, which is a lot to handle!). Almost 90sqm upwind. But the DF 32 is a heavy boat with almost 3500kg, still quite fast though. You really need a winch for that mainsail! If I would buy a DF 32, I would still opt for a self tacker, even though it will be a bit slow in light winds.

One must also remember that a rotating wing sectioned mast (used on Seaon and Barracuda) allows you to use the full area of the mainsail plus adds 3-4 sqm to that. The DF 32 has a rotating round tube section mast that I think prevents you from making use of the foremost 20 cm or so close to the mast. (This is my understanding of this, please correct me if I´m wrong, I´m no engineer!). This means that a main sail area of 53 sqm as specified for the new Barracuda is a lot!

Because of the light build of the Seaon, the feeling I got was never very convincing. I was affraid that things would crack (which they did!), and the interior was not cosy at all! It felt like sitting in a thin shell (which was pretty much what it was!) while inside. Now, the Dragonfly... that´s another story! Feels like driving an Audi RS6!

It would be nice to see the new Barracuda, and I really hope they will build it and that the finish and build quality is sufficient for me. I would really appreciate a ligher boat than the Dragonfly. Hopefully it won´t end up the same way as a lot of other nice boat designs that never leave the drawing table... I know he has been trying to sell the old boat for a while, but it seems difficult to close a deal. Probably won´t be any new boat before the old one is sold, so maybe I´ll go for the Dragonfly anyway

Edit: I also wanted to share with you something quoted from a test sail of the old Barracuda, from the danish boat magazine "Bådmagasinet":

"The initial acceleration was ok, but it got wilder and wilder. 14-16 knots and we hadn´t even fully trimmed the sails. (...) I steered almost completely downwind while we hoisted the gennaker on the bow pole. The speed is under 10 knots. The gennaker catches some wind and speed increases to 11 knots. "You can steer closer to the wind" shouts Jan (Skov Andersen), and I slowly luff while Christian sheets in the large sail. In the beginning, nothing happens, but suddenly we take off and the boat swishes through the water in a completely wild acceleration. So wild that I bear away again, and the speed drops. "What´s the matter, man? Can´t you sail properly?! Luff again!", says Jan. And the speed miracle appears again, as soon as I steer a bit closer to the wind. "Luff more!", they shout. And when I do, something happens that makes the joy of sailing overcome my fear. We are sailing with water spraying around the lee hull, making 20, 22 and finally 25 knots. The steering is very precise, and I really must say I´m in total control of the boat. But in the same moment I notice that the main hull, which I´m on, flies around 1 metre over the water surface. This is completely amazing."

This is multihull sailing!

Cheers!

Mr W
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Last edited by Mr W; 11-27-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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  #3126  
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Sun Fast 3600

Just some renderings:





LOA 11,20 m
Hull length 10,85 m
LWL 9,55 m
Beam 3,55 m
Disp 4.500kg
Ballast 2.000kg / 44 %
Depth 2,15 m
Main 36,0 sqm
Jib (106 %) 33,0 kvm
Spinnaker 100 kvm
Engine 20 PS, Saildrive

Main sail a bit smallish...?

//Mr W
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  #3127  
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Jeanneau SunFast 3600

It looks just great and the numbers are what I have hoped for. The only thing left is to see what kind of interior it will have. This boat is going to be be a cracker







The interior and the galley seems small and a bit odd. Why two seats, one on the chart table and other on the galley? Is that a chart table or the refrigerator is there also? The arrangement of the stove and the sink seems impractical. The sail locker is a great idea and the two cabins will be Ok if the boat has a decent storage space on the cockpit, otherwise It will end up to have only an utilizable cabin and that is just not enough for a family to cruise, even in a spartan way.


...

Last edited by PCP; 11-27-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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Re: Sun Fast 3600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
...
Main 36,0 sqm
Jib (106 %) 33,0 kvm
..

Main sail a bit smallish...?

//Mr W
Is not really a jib but a 106% genoa. I guess the reason most modern sailboats have the type of balance between main and genoa (that favors a big main and a smaller jib) has much to do with the need to clear the saloon space. Even the ones that have the mast on the cabin need a compression post. Maybe also to ORC handicap that values small front sails and big mains.

If you look at an open60



you will see that the mast is on the middle of the boat and that if we consider a small genoa the areas of the main and Genoa will not be very different.

Do you have noticed that on the Sunfast 3600 the mast in the middle of the saloon? Not so much in the middle of the boat regarding an Open 60 but probably more than the average of most performance cruisers. Maybe is that different distribution that makes for a main not much bigger than a 106% genoa.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-27-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Arc

Great confusion on the ARC. The racing fleet division departed at the right time (two days ago) but the departure for the cruising division was postponed (25/30K wind) and they had been given two days for choosing their departure time. It seems that all chose the last day (and they got 25/30K anyway).

World Cruising Club - Fleet Viewer

It seems that almost all had departed even if I can "see" some that stayed in port. Contrary to last year I cannot find any movie from the departure. I guess that the incertitude drove the media away.

27th Atlantic Rally for Cruisers - Cruising Boats Start - Yachts and Yachting Online

a movie about the reason why they chose to stay in port:

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Old 11-28-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
The interior and the galley seems small and a bit odd. Why two seats, one on the chart table and other on the galley? Is that a chart table or the refrigerator is there also? The arrangement of the stove and the sink seems impractical. The sail locker is a great idea and the two cabins will be Ok if the boat has a decent storage space on the cockpit, otherwise It will end up to have only an utilizable cabin and that is just not enough for a family to cruise, even in a spartan way.
Agreed. What a dissappointment. It is just a bigger 3200! I guess Jeanneau do this line for a very precise niche of racers, just to have the brand out there hopefully in some podiums.
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