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  #3131  
Old 11-28-2012
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Sunfast 3600

That interior is screaming for a small central removable central navigation place (on the top of the main table) and that would permit a big galley on the two sides of the boat, without any seat. that would make the main table smaller but who cares, it will be more than enough for two and most of the time people eats outside and that table is not a good one anyway, with a mast on the middle. A good galley, or at least an acceptable one is indispensable in any cruising boat.



I guess you and me are not the only ones pissed with that. Maybe they will, on account of sailors pressure, end up making two versions: a pure race version with a skeleton interior and one with a better interior for cruiser racers.

Regards

Paulo
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  #3132  
Old 11-28-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I see you found some info on the SF3600. I saw some of the photo's late yesterday, not interior design until here. was going to look later tonight, but will not worry about it too much.

Marty
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  #3133  
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Vendee Globe

More and more interesting. Now three more boats are joining the leader pack land all following the west option: Jean, Mike and Dominique.

The lateral distance between Armel and Jean-Pierre (the one more to the West) is almost 500Nm

Stamm comes charging on a middle position and the organization give him the 2th place. It is possible that he is taking the best option. They continue to say that François is at 250Nm from the leader and Jean-Pierre at more than 300Nm but fact is that Armel is making 11K (and will lose speed) while Jeam-Pierre is doing 15K and will not lose speed but it is possible that he even increases it.

A difference of 4K over 24 hours will give 96NM. When Jean-Pierre started to go West he was at only 50Nm from Armel. It would be needed two days and a half with this difference of speed for Jean-Pierre to recover the distance over Armel...but the difference of speed can be a lot different and if Armel starts to makes only 6 or 7K (that I think it is quite possible) the time needed it will be reduced to half and that is a bit more than a day so...big game at play

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking



Day 18 highlights - Tuesday, November 27, 2012 por VendeeGlobeTV
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  #3134  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Armel maybe in the right spot along with the second place boat. Even though he is in only 10 kts of wind from the ENE for the next 12 hours and Virbac Paprec the boat most west and in 5th place has 15kts for the next 12 hours. Virbac must east right now and get on the east side of 20 degrees long or else he will loose any chance of picking up the 30 kts in 24 hours. There is a chance that all top 5 boats will come close together again as they surf down the narrow shut of 30 kts winds in squash zone.
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  #3135  
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New boat: Malango 888

The Malango 888 is , like the Iroise 46, a Pierre Roland design. I liked the previous boat and I love this one even more. If I was on the market for a 30ft, this would be the one. Ok, the interior is a bit crude, but how cool it is a dingy garage on a 30ft boat? On a 40ft boat carrying a dinghy is a drag, on a 30ft boat is just dangerous, I mean if you put it forward it will occupy so much space that with bad weather and the boat heeled it will be dangerous to goo forward. That means that the dingy would have to be on the water, pulled behind the boat....with a lot of drag and loss of speed. Not on this one

Talking about speed this is a light (2 800kg) and fast boat with a ballasted swing keel (Pogo type) with a big draft when down (2.30 -1.0m) with a 30% B/D and a beamy boat (3.45m) with all the beam brought back.

Being light the boat has a relatively small area upwind (56m2 - 25/36) but can carry a huge asymmetric spinnaker downwind (75m2). The boat has a small saildrive with 14cv.

The boat was tested recentely by voile and Voilers. They had fun with the boat and it seems that they forget to measure the speed. Only two were taken:

Main sail and Geenaker: 6K wind at 110ºTRW - 5K speed

Main sail and Asymmetric speed: 15k wind at 140ºTRW - 9K

9k with 15K wind on a 30ft it is very good as it is very good 5K speed with 6k wind. I like this boat

The boat costs without VAT 72 900 euros.





























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Last edited by PCP; 11-28-2012 at 06:37 PM.
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  #3136  
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Vendee Globe

Excellent "post" on Sail world:

In the Vendee Globe, with 760 miles to go until the boats arrive at the first mark Gough Island, which they must leave to starboard, everything is still to play for in this nail biting strategic climax to the gateway of the southern ocean. If the fleet compresses it means the drag race through the mountainous swells of the icy south seas and leaves the race wide open.

1992 Vendée Globe winner and French sailing legend Alan Gautier, explained the position on the web TV show, Vendée Globe LIVE He said, 'the skippers have been thinking hard for three days now, looking for the right strategy. Jean-Pierre Dick (Virbac Paprec 3) and the 'West Group' (François Gabart (Macif) and Jean Le Cam (SynerCiel) are doing all right, maybe better than Armel Le Cléac’h (Banque Populaire) in the end, but it’s easy to say that now. When they actually made their choices, things weren’t that obvious.'

Gaultier continued to say that it’s hard for skippers when there is no wind, not only because they are not moving, but also because they know their opponents are probably getting different conditions and maybe doing better than they are, so psychologically, it’s difficult.

He added 'the next few days will be very exciting for the sailing enthusiasts who follow the Vendée Globe, because there’s a big group that will enter the South together.'

The skippers are now committed to their definitive strategy and the first five are all possible winners. It is now a matter of luck and speed as who will gain and lose around the edges of the high pressure the anticyclone of St Helena casting her windless nets in the South Atlantic.

If the Jean-Pierre Dick (Virbac Paprec 3) and the 'West Group' (François Gabart (Macif) and Jean Le Cam (SynerCiel) are fast over next couple days, and the hole of the high does not extend east then they might edge by in front and make their escape below it. The models are showing the advantage with them and they could make a rapid advance below into the favourable winds, before the High can suck them into its windless car park. If they are successful they will compress the fleet, and make gains towards the ice gate.

The situation for Armel Le Cléac’h (Banque Populaire) depends on how much boat speed he can make in the circling lighter winds 10-12kt winds. If he can sail a shorter course he may be able to bypass the high but the risk is that he could end up with less advantageous wind direction and handcuffed by a high pressure.

Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) is nervous that he will lose the 200 mile advantage that he has in the bank over Jean Le Cam (SynerCiel). Today on the web TV show Vendée Globe LIVE he said, 'it’s pretty nerve wracking really for all of us. We are just waiting for the wind. Armel and I need this ridge to move out of the way and we can’t really do anything until the ridge has gone.

And those west guys it does look like the wind is filling in for them now. I have been go through the options of what I could do. Four days ago I was 80 miles behind Virbac, and I could be 80 miles behind Virbac now, where Synerciel is, and so my thinking is, that I am still 200 miles better off than Jean is right now, as long as I still have something in the bank at the end of this; I guess I’ll be happy, but it certainly isn’t going to be 200 miles.'

The skippers receive the same weather files every 12 hours which show them the conditions they potentially could encounter. On Vendée Globe LIVE the web TV show broadcast every day from the race headquarters at Gare Montparnasse in Paris, Mike Golding (Gamesa) explained where the weather models often don’t reflect the more localised conditions, 'now it’s quite reasonable and we are starting to see the reality that the model is predicting. Where the models fall down is when you get into a very unstable area of light winds where there are light shifty bits, the model can’t show you that and it can only show you an average, and consequently, you come into an area, and you have a wind with a 180 degrees difference.' Therefore, we can deduce that what is forecast and what occurs cannot predicted and so we too like the skippers must wait and see how the next few days play out.

The compression of the fleet is likely and Mike Golding (Gamesa) is confident that there are gains to be made which will see the top eight all enter the southern ocean together. The stage has been set and patience is the only option as the conclusion unravels over the next few days. It is a poker game where the player’s conviction ranges from resolute to exhausted. Only the arrival of the rankings every four hours can offer an answer. In a war of nerves, knowing how to negotiate the best course through light winds is paramount.


Sail-World.com : Vendee Globe - Tension rises as the clock ticks on


Great stuff. I am not as confident as Alan Gautier that Armel has done the bad choice, well, he knows a lot more than me but the Chacal (Armel) is a tough costumer and it all depends on the speed he can manage on the lighter winds. If he can maintain 10/11K I guess he will not lose over the guys on the west at least if he can go out of the high in a day and a half.

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking
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  #3137  
Old 11-29-2012
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World Voyage Planner

Jimmy Cornell's New Book Is Out. I have to get one for Christmas

As far as I know, most yacht delivery skippers use his books to plan and organise their next delivery trip. He now has a new book out.

Jimmy Cornell, sailing guru for generations of cruising sailors, founder of the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers and author of upwards of 14 books on sailing already, just keeps writing. His reputation for accuracy, as well as the appropriateness of the books that he writes makes each one walk off the shelves. His latest is the World Voyage Planner.

The main aim of World Voyage Planner is to help sailors plan a voyage from anywhere in the world to anywhere in the world, with suggestions of alternative routes to certain destinations, recommended times and favourable seasons, tropical storm areas and critical months, suggested detours to attractive places, and strategically located ports of call to be used in an emergency.

World Voyage Planner fills a glaring absence among nautical books by being the only book to be written specifically on the subject of offshore voyage planning. It is thus a valuable and indispensable companion to Jimmy Cornell’s other books as it enables the reader to plan, undertake and accomplish a voyage from the earliest stage of conception to its successful completion.

His books now cover the entire spectrum of offshore voyaging with World Cruising Routes outlining over one thousand routes between specific destinations from start to landfall, World Cruising Destinations, giving detailed information on 184 maritime nations and Cornell’s Ocean Atlas presenting a comprehensive picture of weather conditions in every ocean of the world.

Every voyage is illustrated by pilot charts showing the weather conditions for the recommended months, such as average direction and strength of winds and currents. These up-to-date charts are based on observations made by meteorological satellites in the last twenty years and present an accurate picture of the current weather conditions in any of the world’s oceans.

A description of the various alternatives for the continuation of the voyage concludes each section. In recent years cruising yachts have reached some of the most remote parts of the world from Greenland to the Amazon, and even such challenging destinations as Antarctica and the Northwest Passage are no longer the preserve of tough explorers.

While the main focus of this book is voyages along the most popular cruising routes, there are also suggested voyages to less frequented destinations, from Spitsbergen and Alaska to Southern Chile and Antarctica, but also on some of the navigable rivers and inland waterways of Europe, North America and West Africa.


Yacht Delivery News: Jimmy Cornell's New Book Is Out
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  #3138  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Well it is looking like Virbac Paprec and the other western boats really have made South Easting in time. There is going to be a lot of boats in a tight group soon all running in 30 knots of wind. The way they have been running into things in this race,(bouys, fishing boats) I hope they do not run into each other. 96 hours out is where things will get really difficult as the boats are going to have to go deep into the 50 lats to keep the wind. There will be plenty of ice and fog plus a lot of tired sailors. With the race so close between so many boats some sailors will take the chance and go deep.

Last edited by hannah2; 11-29-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  #3139  
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New boat: Hunter 40

I have been accused of not posting about American boats. That is not true and I have posted about all new American boats that I find interesting but that is true that I refrain myself to post about American boats that I don’t like even if I do that regarding European boats, if they are from big mass production builders.

Well that distinction makes no sense so let’s have a post about the new Hunter 40.

The first photos of the boat had surprised me. The boat looked modern and nice:





I got interested and I thought: Finally they got one of the main NAs to design their boats.

They say about it:

Whether you are a day sailor or serious cruiser, the new Hunter 40 isdesigned to please. Her superior sailing characteristics are honed from her 65 predecessors to emerge from our design center.

Built in the United States, she is crafted by people who understand and respect the sea. We chose to launch the new H40 on our fortieth anniversary with the desire to create a sailing vessel that exceeded the expectations of the past forty years.

Come experience the new H40 with her dual helm control, fold-down transom, chined hull and dual heads. Our hand-crafted interiors are made to fit each boat, not the other way around. The result is an interior fit and finish that is as functional as it is beautiful.



Hum, that is odd they don’t say who is the designer and they talk about a “design center”???

Well the boat has a chined hull, that should be a modern hull???, and then I saw this:




This looks like the shape of a 10 or 15 year’s old cruiser!!! That is really odd… and I start to look for hull designs and 3D renderings…and I found none!!!???? Very odd, that would be unthinkable in an European brand. I am confused.

The American Sailors are not interested in the hull, keel and rudder design of the boat that they are going to buy? Then I started to look for the name of the boat designer and again…nothing!!!??? I thought that was not possible, the name of the designer gives an assurance of quality, everybody wants to know who designs his boat?!!

Well maybe not, at least not in America, not for Hunter, they have not the name anywhere so I guess it is designed in house by their " design center"!!!???

That is unheard except for some small brads where the owner is the designer and build to very small market niches. In what regards big brands and main market, they all have in house architects but they do not design the boats they make the interface between what the brand wants and the best world Architectural Naval offices that actually design the boats.They also help in the building, adjusting small details and modifying small things.

Well, the "in house Hunter design center" is not what I would have called as a major name in boat design.

After looking a lot I could find out some pictures that show actually something about the hull design, besides the global shape of the boat:





That chine is really odd, a very hard one that will not allow the boat to sail well except with very little heel, otherwise creating a lot of drag. That kind of chine, I mean a very marked one (even if not so extreme) will give a lot of hull stability and prevents heeling but will not be appropriated to a boat that has the max beam forward. That demands a large beam and all the beam brought back, like on the Benetau 41, a boat with 4.20m of beam:



But even so we can see that the Chine transition is a much softer one allowing the boat to have a maximized hull form at angles of heel till 17º or so and after that allowing the boat to sail close upwind at greater angles without generating a lot of drag:







The last picture is from a Jeanneau 409 a boat that has not the beam so brought back as the Benetau Oceanis 41, a hull that in its overall shape is more similar (even if more modern) than the one from the Hunter 40, also with a chine but with a even more soft transition than on the Oceanis and that is natural because having the Jeanneau less beam and max beam more forward it will sail upwind with more heel.

So a good question is what is the Hunter 40 beam? On the main site they have 12’2’’ or 4.01m????? and on the PDF they have 13’2’’ that is equivalent to 4.01m. Here on a more detailed file (that has also beam at waterline they give again 12’2’’ and again 4.01m!!!!. I guess that it is really 12’2’’ (the boat don’t seem to have much beam) and in that case it should be 3.71m. That makes that hull transom design and the hard chine even more odd since this boat will heel even more than the jeanneau 409 ( Beam 3.99m) going close upwind.

Marlow-Hunter vs Marlow-Hunter 2013 vs 2013 Hunter 40 vs Hunter 40 Sailboats

Regarding ballast and ballast ratio/type of keel in what regards RM, I cannot say all because I could not find any picture or drawing of the boat with the keel in the fin configuration. We know that the draft is 2.03m and that the B/D is on the low side (27.5%). I hope that this boat has a modern keel with all the ballast on the bottom otherwise it would be really on the very low side.

The boat has not much beam neither a big B/D ratio (or a big draft) so this will make it not a powerful boat and not able to carry much sail. The weight is on the high side (8936Kg) and that makes it comparable with the more heavier European mass production boats, like the Bavaria 40 (8680kg) or the Hanse 415 (8900kg ). The sail area is surprisingly bigger 93.46 m2 (to 82m2 and 84.5m2) since both the Bavaria and the Hanse are more powerful boats, with more RM, this means that the Hunter is a more tender boat and a boat that would have to reef a lot sooner than any of the other boats.

If the boat looks well at ¾, on the side it looks a bit odd



And I don’t understand the boom traveler not to be on the axis of the support structure. That will create an arm and will multiply the force that will be made on the structure and on that panel that I find really ugly:



View from the back, I find the design too heavy, with a too high transom to my taste:



Regarding the interior it has a very good galley and a nicely overall distributed interior, especially in what regards the two cabin version.



In what regards design, it seems that, contrary to any European brand, it is also made at home in their “design center” and it shows. The comparison with any European brands, that have their interiors designed by the best interior designers, is evident. For what I have saw on other Hunters this difference in the interior quality, as well as in general, is not one of material quality, that is similar to the one of the European boat builders, but one of design quality.






Last edited by PCP; 11-29-2012 at 07:52 PM. Reason: The post was edited following Faster observation on post 3405
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

PCP you have courage to even bring this Hunter subject up on a forum.

I agree with you on all of it and there is a lot more to dislike in this boat. If this is the best Americans can do in a modern designed production boat then we are best off with no new designs at all. We really are in a sorry state on this side of the pond.
Americans will buy them and tell us all what a great boat they have.
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