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  #3271  
Old 12-21-2012
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Re: Wnner 9.00

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsieur bis View Post
Thank you Paulo for your reply. I agree with your analysis of the difference in hull form between the two boats. The narrow entry of the Xp 33 is readily apparent when looking at the boat out of the water, and it is felt when in the forward v berth area. It looks to me like Van de Stadt has decided to have the max beam further forward in order to allow more space for the saloon and the forward berth area. I guess my disappointment with the Xp 33 stems from the fact that it is 1320kg heavier than a X-99, a boat that I have fond memories of. I would say it would take a veritable gale to get either the Xp 33 or certainly the Winner up on a plane. From my experience, the number of boats that actually get up on a plane is much smaller than people think.

I hope next years European Boat of the Year includes the Xp 33, the Winner and the Pogo 30 in the small boat category. To my mind they are three quite different, yet well thought out boats.

Best,

Frédéric
Frédéric,the A99 was and his a great boat and a great design in its time



and it is true that was it was lighter with 2890 kg to 4330kg but the Xp 33 has more 400kg of ballast so that difference is reduced to about 1000kg. if we consider that the X33 has about more 36cms im the LWL and more 21cms of beam that diffrence is explained.

Much more than that small difference in weight is the difference in power (stability) between the two boats. Not only the Xp 33 has more beam, a more modern hull that maximizes form stability (specially downwind) as it has a hugely more efficient keel with all the ballast in a torpedo. The Xp33 maximizes even more that more efficient keel with a difference in draft (1.90 to 1.75m).

I don't think that the slight bigger B/D ratio of the X99 (44% to 40%) can compensate the difference in RM on the Xp33 provided by the bigger draft and most of all by the fact that all the ballast is on the XP 33 down on a torpedo. Of course, more 21 cms of beam is a lot (in 3.0m of beam) and that will also contribute to make the Xp 33 a much more powerful boat and even if the boat has probably more wet surface due to the bigger displacement that difference is diminished by a keel with a lot less wet area.

You can see that difference in power reflected in the sail area both boats can carry downwind, the X99 carry a spy with about 80m2 and the Xp33 one with 93m2.

Regarding planning, I agree with you in what regards performance boats heavily charged for cruising, but when discharged for racing there are some boats that start to plane with medium winds and this is one if them.

We can see on a boat test that the boat is planning doing about 15K speed with a 20K wind. In this boat with this size of hull, we can consider that 10k is already a planning speed, since it is way more than hull speed. I guess that for reaching that speed the boat does not need much wind, if it carries a large spinnaker or geenaker, and the Xp33 has just the potential stability to do that without any problem.

Take a look at the Xp33 planning with 20K wind:





Cheers

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-21-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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  #3272  
Old 12-21-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The 'flip wheel' on the Winner is a clever idea.. gives the helmsperson lots of options without the complexity of twin wheels, or too large a diameter single.

Thanks once again, Paulo, for the efforts put into this thread!
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  #3273  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
The 'flip wheel' on the Winner is a clever idea.. gives the helmsperson lots of options without the complexity of twin wheels, or too large a diameter single.

Thanks once again, Paulo, for the efforts put into this thread!
Thanks. Many other yachts have that system that is on the market. One of them is Sirius and yes I agree that the system has advantages but not properly on that boat where I think a tiller would make a lot more sense. A 30ft performance sailing boat with a wheel does not make much sense to me.

Regards

Paulo
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Yachts

Yes, 30ft performance boats really don't have great cruising interiors. Let's see some boats with good cruising interiors















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  #3275  
Old 12-22-2012
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New boat: Hanse 575

A very interesting boat that seems to follow the new trend: Boats with a huge freeboard that is somewhat disguised by a small cabin. The new top of the range Bavaria works on the same principle. The boat actually looks really nice when heeled while sailing. Only when it is upright you notice the massive freeboard that provides a huge interior standing height, one so big that you actually need a ladder to open hatches .

It is a very well design and I am quite sure that if they design the boat with that interior height is because clients will want it like that even if I don't understand why, but then I am not a client for that boat It seams to me that they could take away a foot of freeboard and even so have a good interior height. I would certainly prefer it that way and get ride of the windage that extra height would provide.

But except that it seems a very impressive boat ; fast, stable and very easy to sail, even by a couple. An impressive boat.

It was tested by Yachtworld and they said about it:

‘Fast cruising, easy sailing' is Hanse's motto for their new 575, a judel/vrolijk design aimed at getting places quickly and easily. The German company's new big boat is a big boat indeed, with plentiful freeboard height buying a voluminous and light interior, whilst keeping a clean looking deck and sleek coachroof that's so low it barely rises from the teak.

The height of the Hanse 575 also buys room for a jet tender to stow in a garage in the transom - a hydraulic platform lowers to allow the Rib to roll out, and it can be launched and retrieved by one person. Her shallow companionway leads into a vast one-level interior, with a three-cabin layout on the test boat, each with its own heads. But up to 1.5m is a lot of topside to be confronted by and can make just boarding the boat an issue.

Could the Hanse 575 be all things to all people I wondered as we tested her? A fast, spacious, distance-munching cruiser that could be sailed by a couple, ship a practical tender for when you arrive plus the mod-cons to make her feel like a home from home? I was certainly glad there were only two of us aboard and a fresh breeze, as it proved she is actually a very capable boat and indeed manageable shorthanded.

And I think that for a boat that will cost around £400k (with taxes and options), she makes for a smart yet movable second home. See what you think...
.





Last edited by PCP; 12-22-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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  #3276  
Old 12-22-2012
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Boreal 44/Allures 45/OVNI 445

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
Ya but that is one more company than we have in America that builds a somewhat modern designed boat of high quality.

Looking forward to your centerboard list. Hope they all have great videos of beaching in warm places.

Later

Steve
OK Steve, not all, there some more but let's just have a look at the French direct competition to your boat.

I have already said that you have chosen one of the best boats to voyage and mainly to explore places with a difficult access but I guess we would like to hear from you why you have chosen the Boreal 44 over any of the other two.

It was not for price, I think that the Boreal is slightly more expensive, so can you tell you the reasons for your choice? I Guess we all, and specially the ones that are interested in these boats will be very interested

Sorry about the bad quality movie about the Boreal but its all I can find. You should tell the guys from Boreal that good movies in internet helps to sell boats

Allures 45:




Allures 45 - allures Yachting - Voilier de... por allures_yachting


OVNI 445:








Boreal 44:






Voilier - Boréal 44, élu

Regards

Paulo
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The race

While we wait for Steve post and before having a look at the Vendee Globe ker me talk about the other race I like has much as the Vendee one that I wait eagerly for the repetition, a even madder one. That is about the same as the vendee, I mean, around the world without scale or assistance but without limits.

Without limits is just that, you can race with any kind of boat and with the crew you want. Crazy? You bet

The second edition of The Race, the crewed race round the world with no limits on board the planet’s largest multihulls, will be taking place in 2013 or 2014. Bruno Peyron has decided to relaunch the great event and agreed to talk to OceanRacing about his project.



The first on only RACE was 12 years ago, to commemorate the millennium:

Created by the French sailor Bruno Peyron, The Race started on 31st December 2000, as a way to celebrate our arrival in the third millennium with a global ocean race. The Race was the first race around the world without limits, in other words it was open to boats without any size restrictions. The total freedom that was given to designers led to the birth of a new generation of sailboats, maxi-multihulls, now known as the G-Class.

For the first edition of The Race, six giant multihulls set out from the start in Barcelona to sail around the world via the three capes (Good Hope, Leeuwin and the Horn). Five of them completed the race in Marseilles. The reference time for the race was set by the New Zealander Grant Daltonaboard the maxi-catamaran Club Med, which completed the voyage in 62 days, 56 minutes and 33 seconds.


http://www.therace.org/the-race/?lang=en

A great movie about the first RACE:

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Old 12-22-2012
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Vendee Globe

While Stamm had taken shelter under the Auckland Islands to try to fix the hidrogenerators, this race continues with a relentless mach race for the lead. Now is François that leads but Armel is at only 22nm.

Amazingly Jean-Pierre, after an incredible reparation on the top of the mast, is recovering distance He is still at 470nm, but that's a long race.

Some great videos with the 3 guys and their boats:








Difficile montée dans le mât pour Jean-Pierre Dick por VendeeGlobeTV



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  #3279  
Old 12-22-2012
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paulo,

Sorry had a post almost done when I received an email to do a weather routing through the convergence zone.

A bit of history. My wife and I are old Yankee New Englanders who have sailed from when we were small kids. Being yankee we are also very traditional when it comes to boats. That was until our last crossing of the Pacific starting in 2007 in our Mason 44. In the S. Pacific we started seeing these aluminum centerboard, mostly Ovni's and Garcias cutter rigs. On board were French cruisers with if I might say,"shat eating grins" on their face. They were coming back from Antartica , sailing to atolls we could only sail by because we had too much draft. But always in love with their boats. Those boats for their size were fast but comfortable, one can throw out all the old math for waterline and stability. Both my wife Tracy and I started to see something new, something to understand and research, something we N. Americans were not hearing much about.

We sold our Mason in NZ because our kid wanted to go to High school and not be home schooled anymore. As he was about to graduate and get kicked out of the house my wife mentioned we should get a new boat instead of a used boat. And that it better be a French aluminum centerboard design. Wow what a lucky man I am, eh! We did our research on the Ovni and Garcia and a few others. Then a cruising friend who himself was looking for something in the same lines mentioned Boreal. There was not much information, same as there is now but there was something I really liked about the design, Function and Form.

I contacted all the yards and gave them my sad story about selling our last boat and looking for a new one. I heard back from Boreal and they loved the old yankee designs and thought I would love to see and sail something new and amazing. They invited me over but said I needed to stay for a week so I could not only understand the boat but also how they build them. So I went.

So that started a damn good friendship and business association. On my last day I simply shook hands with Jean-Francois Delvoye, the designer of the Boreal 44 and Jean-Francois Eeman his business partner and told them to build me a boat just send me the paperwork.

That is how it started. We have been very happy over the first year of building, don't get me wrong we have our disagreements but easily solved with real discussion on boat design. Remember Function/form is what it is about.

I will do another post soon on why we chose the Boreal design over the other French aluminum centerboard boats But now I got to go pick up the kid at the airport.
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  #3280  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The first thing that caught our interest in the Boreal 44 was the dog house. Fully watertight with a 360 degree view for bad weather and night watches. Even in the tropics we have found that late nite early morning watch cool and wet on a 25 kts beam reach. The dog house is set up with a chart table big enough to lay 2/3 size charts out flat. There is room for two to sit in the doghouse and there is room for most of your electronics. Also a place for the epirb and ditch bag.

Next thing was hull design: With the aluminum chine hull, the centerboard and the two dagger boards which give this cutter rigged boat great stability in sailing a strait line. We figure that we are going to come very close on a lot of days to 200 miles. Reason is the modern hull design and shape and those dagger boards. As most of you who own a true cutter rig you know the wobble where the stern seems to be moving starbord and port. Looking at your wake you see your not sailing perfectly strait. But on the Boreal put the lee dagger board down and the boat tracks true. While on a trial sail we didn't do anything special in trimming sails and I left the helm un attended for 45 minutes and the boat sailed perfectly strait in 15 kts of wind on a beam reach then tried a broad reach. If you put the auto pilot on and set a course then just sit around and watch the DC amp meter needle, it just does not move, the auto helm is not using much juice if any. I realize we didn't have big seas but still that is an astounding accomplishment in boat design in my opinion. I'm looking forward to see how the Wind Pilot self steering will work. We will be the first Boreal to have anything but auto pilot, the designer thinks I'm crazy to be putting one on his boat as there is little stress on the auto pilot.

Next on our list was storage. I hate anything on deck on passage, at a marina or at anchor. With the Boreal there is never a need to keep anything you don't want on deck there. The large lazzerette in the stern fits the inflatable and the outboard. No I can't have a hard rib any more and I'll miss that but at least I do not have to ever do a long passage with the rib on deck and an outboard on the back stanchion. Cabin storage is perfect and easy to get to. Our Mason had 87 total lockers of all sizes, the Boreal I do not think has that many but I believe it may have as much storage space.

Those are the first three major things we liked but more later.

Cheers and all have a happy holidays
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