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  #321  
Old 11-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
OK, seeing the displacement I assumed exactly this. The displacement seems to be a good measure for this, do you agree?
Yes, but not in what regards going upwind, except in very light winds. I have read a very interesting test between a J133 and a boat like the Pogo 12,50, but more expensive (I don't remember the boat name right now). Both boats at the water at the same time. I was surprised with the results. There was a lot of situations where the J133 was faster...and more comfortable. Both boats have about the same price tag.

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Originally Posted by myocean View Post
What do you think about the effect of having a real good autopilot. The NKE Gyropilos used for the Pogos are really good. Vendee Globe boats can go on autopilot nearly all the time. Which level of technology is needed for that?
You would have not any problem with a Pogo under auto pilot. But because it is a much more powerfull boat, you will have to adjust the sails (and reef) a lot more than with a RM 1200. That would be fine with me , but that's just a fact.

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Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Yes, right. But I still wonder about the absolute numbers. What would be a reasonable payload for a Pogo.
The Pogo can carry a considerable payload, the problem is that when you load more the boat, it will need more speed and wind to start planning. I guess that if you want a really fast boat, and considering the Pogo 12.50, you should not carry more than a 1000 kg, and that includes water, fuel sailors and luggages. I don't remember the max load of the boat, but I am sure that it is over a 2000kg load.


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Originally Posted by myocean View Post
I am thinking about chatering one for a week or so next March. There is one in the Antilles :-) . However I think the lifting keel version is not so nice inside due to the space needed for this feature. The Pogo swing keel is better regarding this but probably not as robust so the boat can stand on it (as the Opium).
I have tried that, one year ago. That Opium 39 is not available for charter there anymore, but it is for sale at a very good price. I don't have any idea of the boat condition and that Opium is one from the previous series (2005), not made by Wauquiez, with not so good interiors and probably not a so good construction, but it was a well considered boat, in what regards its quality.

Instead of chartering one, why don't you test sail that one? preferably sooner because I don't know if in Mach the boat will still be for sale.

ALIZE YACHT DESIGN OPIUM 39 used boat for sale. The Yacht Market online boat sales and charters.

The only reason I had not a look at that boat, is because it is faraway...and I believe that is true for all Europeans that know and like that boat. Here, similar boats have been sold for a lot more money.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-04-2010 at 06:02 AM.
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  #322  
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Meanwhile there are more than 10 new photos (in action & interior) of Pogo 12.50 on the pogostructures website available.

Looks light...
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  #323  
Old 11-04-2010
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, on post 174 we have talked about this one, but I believe they had not yet made one, so no photos, other than the plans, were posted.

That interior looks functional, even if a bit too "white plastic" to my taste. But that boat is gorgeous, I would say sexy . I am going to look if I can find more pictures

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

There are some more pics. If you don't I'll post some later on today. I didn't want to clutter up the thread if we had already covered this boat.

The Sydney's are a pretty cool boat. Not for living on or long term cruising but hotsy tottsy for round the buoys and the occasional offshore, if that is your thing.

Now, you know that I like the Pogo for what she is but for a 'cruising' circumnavigation I don't get it. Ok, so I am a much more laid back sailor than you or it seems MyOcean but out at sea in anything other than really calm conditions 15 knots and up is simply going to be bloody uncomfortable and a hell of a lot of work. I appreciate the argument about getting there as fast as possible but as long as I have a boat capable of topping ten or so knots in the right conditions then I will be a happy chappy indeed. If I want a burst of 15knts then I'll come sailing with you guys.

ps - not really any other pics of the Syd 37...
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Last edited by tdw; 11-04-2010 at 03:57 PM.
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  #324  
Old 11-04-2010
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43 Pages and I'm astounded. 10% of the posts on here are about how the boat actually sails and about its seakeeping qualities. 90% of the posts are about how big the bloody shower is. Jeez. Buy a caravan or go sailing bluewater and then decide how big the shower needs to be after a force 8 or 9 kicks you in the butt.
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  #325  
Old 11-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusmus View Post
43 Pages and I'm astounded. 10% of the posts on here are about how the boat actually sails and about its seakeeping qualities. 90% of the posts are about how big the bloody shower is. Jeez. Buy a caravan or go sailing bluewater and then decide how big the shower needs to be after a force 8 or 9 kicks you in the butt.


For a first post it is not bad

But I guess that you have not read the thread. The vast majority of the boats posted here are far away from the ones that will provide the best service at marina. The vast majority are boats that are much more at ease at sea than at a marina

Regarding bluewater boats, there are some here that are true bluewater boats, some that can cross safely oceans and some that are essentially coastal cruisers.

Why the hell should you think that a thread about interesting boats should be only about specialized bluewater designed cruisers? Do you think those are the only interesting boats?

Do you know that sailors interested in those boats are just a very small minority and that among that small minority only a few uses them for what they are designed to do? Do you know that all types of boats are design compromises and that a specialized bluewater boat will be a poor coastal cruiser and a worst liveaboard boat?

Don't you not know that the vast majority of sailors coastal cruise most of their time, even those that occasionally cross oceans? Don't you know that is the reason why the large majority of the market is oriented for boats that excel in living aboard, coastal cruising with some variable bluewater capacity?

I really don't understand your point

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-04-2010 at 06:54 PM.
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  #326  
Old 11-04-2010
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On design - Pogo

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Paulo,

....
Now, you know that I like the Pogo for what she is but for a 'cruising' circumnavigation I don't get it. Ok, so I am a much more laid back sailor than you or it seems MyOcean but out at sea in anything other than really calm conditions 15 knots and up is simply going to be bloody uncomfortable and a hell of a lot of work. I appreciate the argument about getting there as fast as possible but as long as I have a boat capable of topping ten or so knots in the right conditions then I will be a happy chappy indeed. If I want a burst of 15knts then I'll come sailing with you guys.
..
The interior of the Pogo is set for extended cruising, spartan way I concede, but that's all about what you are set for. That's like road cruising in a Ferrari. No one is saying that it is more comfortable than a Mercedes but for some it is the fun that matters, it is not about arriving to some place, it is the way you do it.

That logic is the same when I cruise with my speedster on the mountain roads of Europe: I chose always the more twisting roads, the ones with the best scenery and that would provide the more exhilarating driving . Most of the drivers I know would think that the I am mad for taking those roads to get from A to B. But then they don't drive speedsters and don't understand that for me the pleasure is on the road, not in arriving the fastest and more comfortably I can to the B place .

Regarding comfort you are right and wrong. On a circumnavigation by the right side, you get trade winds most of the time, and in those conditions the Pogo is a perfect boat, super fast, super stable, little work and comfortable. You can let it go on autopilot all the time. It will be safer on autopilot doing 16k than other type of boats doing 10K and in these would need a solid hand at the wheel.

But If you do mainly coastal cruising you will get a lot of head wind, and the Pogo is not the best boat to do it. Not that he can not do it fast, but it is a lot less comfortable than a less beamier boat and not much faster than some, because he can not point so much to the wind. Some very fast cruiser-racers will even be more fast than a Pogo on that sail position.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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  #327  
Old 11-04-2010
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Hey BenMP, I can not resist to show you a sketch that I have made 35 years ago about my dream boat



Regards

Paulo
Beautiful. I have a hard time no going for the small ship even when I know that for the most part they don't preform as well as newer designs.
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  #328  
Old 11-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post


For a first post it is not bad

But I guess that you have not read the thread. The vast majority of the boats posted here are far away from the ones that will provide the best service at marina. The vast majority are boats that are much more at ease at sea than at a marina

Regarding bluewater boats, there are some here that are true bluewater boats, some that can cross safely oceans and some that are essentially coastal cruisers.

Why the hell should you think that a thread about interesting boats should be only about specialized bluewater designed cruisers? Do you think those are the only interesting boats?
PS. Your drawing reminds me very much of a Harrison Butler. Lovely boats.

Do you know that sailors interested in those boats are just a very small minority and that among that small minority only a few uses them for what they are designed to do? Do you know that all types of boats are design compromises and that a specialized bluewater boat will be a poor coastal cruiser and a worst liveaboard boat?

Don't you not know that the vast majority of sailors coastal cruise most of their time, even those that occasionally cross oceans? Don't you know that is the reason why the large majority of the market is oriented for boats that excel in living aboard, coastal cruising with some variable bluewater capacity?

I really don't understand your point

Regards

Paulo
Paulo. Thanks for the reply and yes, I have read the thread in "Almost" its entirity, which, is the reason I felt the need to post as I did. Looking through the lists and photos of most of the boats mentioned I'd have to say that there are a huge amount of non sailing dreamers and/or marina dwellers posting. There are basically three types of sailor. The racer, The cruiser, AND, The Marina dweller. All three have specific needs when choosing a boat, but, when looking at interiors which will obviously become exagerated tumble dryers in anything above a force 4 I'll stick to my last post. Buy a caravan.
On another point. The POGO. Why on earth would someone want to cruise such a thing. Race, for sure because the need to be totally knackered after a race means that you've given it your best. To be totally knackered after a cruise seems to me to be either masochistic or simply plain stupid. OK, you'll get there faster,,, but it'll take you twice as long to recover from the effort. Personally, I'd rather enjoy all of it. Life isn't all about adrenalin or hot tubs in the forepeak. Sometimes a seakindly hull and the basics are all it takes.
PS. your drawing reminds me very much of a Harrison Butler. Lovely boats

Last edited by gusmus; 11-04-2010 at 09:16 PM.
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  #329  
Old 11-04-2010
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gusmus,

I have JUST the boat for you......I'll look it up, it is interesting, and has not been shown or disCUSSed as of yet........

marty
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  #330  
Old 11-04-2010
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Found it......LOLOLOLOL



This should suit gusmus VERY WELL:rolle yes:
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