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  #331  
Old 11-04-2010
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The interior of the Pogo is set for extended cruising, spartan way I concede, but that's all about what you are set for. That's like road cruising in a Ferrari. No one is saying that it is more comfortable than a Mercedes but for some it is the fun that matters, it is not about arriving to some place, it is the way you do it.

That logic is the same when I cruise with my speedster on the mountain roads of Europe: I chose always the more twisting roads, the ones with the best scenery and that would provide the more exhilarating driving . Most of the drivers I know would think that the I am mad for taking those roads to get from A to B. But then they don't drive speedsters and don't understand that for me the pleasure is on the road, not in arriving the fastest and more comfortably I can to the B place .

Regarding comfort you are right and wrong. On a circumnavigation by the right side, you get trade winds most of the time, and in those conditions the Pogo is a perfect boat, super fast, super stable, little work and comfortable. You can let it go on autopilot all the time. It will be safer on autopilot doing 16k than other type of boats doing 10K and in these would need a solid hand at the wheel.

But If you do mainly coastal cruising you will get a lot of head wind, and the Pogo is not the best boat to do it. Not that he can not do it fast, but it is a lot less comfortable than a less beamier boat and not much faster than some, because he can not point so much to the wind. Some very fast cruiser-racers will even be more fast than a Pogo on that sail position.

Regards

Paulo
Ah my friend we disagree......to some extent anyway. Very little cruising is done in the down south after all. OK, for a circumnavigation the Pogo may be hard to beat but not , in my opinion, for long term cruising which is largely spent at anchor or sailing in quite variable conditions. You see for me I would rather cruise Europe in an A5 TDI. Still fast but more laid back. The Ferrari simply does not answer my needs. Good for a day of fun but not for a week. Nonetheless I would still take the twist secondary roads because as you say better scenery.....and you pass by better restaurants.
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  #332  
Old 11-05-2010
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I'll take a slightly spartan interior of say the Pogo or sydney, granted fiberglass vs wood. Gelcoat is spray the soap on, wipe dry with towel. Wood is the same to clean, but one has to sand and varnish, or oil or _______ upon occasion! Besides, it seems as if when I have cruised, I am in the cockpit more than the cabin. Then down to sleep, eat etc. One does not need much for this. Kinda like when I climbed mt rainer here in Wa, some 14500' in elevation. small tent, what you carry on your back, make sure you do not fall in a crevase......ah the days of being young and maybe not so smart as today.........would still go back tomorrow...........maybe I am not so smart today either......hmmmmm.......

Time for bed me thinks..............
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  #333  
Old 11-05-2010
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On Design - Pogo

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Ah my friend we disagree......to some extent anyway. Very little cruising is done in the down south after all. OK, for a circumnavigation the Pogo may be hard to beat but not , in my opinion, for long term cruising which is largely spent at anchor or sailing in quite variable conditions. You see for me I would rather cruise Europe in an A5 TDI. Still fast but more laid back. The Ferrari simply does not answer my needs. Good for a day of fun but not for a week. Nonetheless I would still take the twist secondary roads because as you say better scenery.....and you pass by better restaurants.
I don't understand In what is our disagreement, except if you consider that everybody is not entitled to travel the way each person find more agreeable or more amusing. You would chose an Audi, I would chose a Ferrari, then a Lotus then a Lamborghini, then a Maclaren then...you get my drift...and it seems that you don't know what is fast, regarding cars.

Again, I like to cruise but I like as much to SAIL, or if we put it on road terms, I like as much to drive as to travel. And regarding the pleasure for one that really likes to drive, an Audi A5 is a caravan, if compared with a sport car. It is a effective machine but not a pleasure machine or a fast machine, like a Ferrari.

I think you can agree that some would value that pleasure, in a boat or in a car, differently than you would do, so much that they would prefer a far less comfortable machine (like the Ferrari) to a very comfortable one (the Audi A5), providing both can do the job, meaning, cruising.

I agree with you that a Pogo is not an ideal sailing around boat. That's why I would pick a Salona over a Pogo. But that's just me and my personal choice, taking into consideration that I will not cross many times Oceans and that I will not sail many times on trade winds. The real problem with the Pogo (besides the upwind harder motion) is it's spartan interior (Spartan but functional). But that would not be a problem for some, neither the harder motion and in that case the Pogo is a lot of money for the boat.

Your ideal boat would never be the same as mine. The Salona is not a Ferrari, but it is a Porche . A bit more rational, a bit more comfortable, but even so a kind of very fast sport's boat with good cruising capacities.

For you I would recommend a Dufour 425 or a RM 1200, kind of an Audi 5 type of boats, if you get my drift

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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  #334  
Old 11-05-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusmus View Post
..
On another point. The POGO. Why on earth would someone want to cruise such a thing. Race, for sure because the need to be totally knackered after a race means that you've given it your best. To be totally knackered after a cruise seems to me to be either masochistic or simply plain stupid. OK, you'll get there faster,,, but it'll take you twice as long to recover from the effort. Personally, I'd rather enjoy all of it. Life isn't all about adrenalin or hot tubs in the forepeak. Sometimes a seakindly hull and the basics are all it takes.
Nobody is questioning your tastes. But you are questioning other sailors tastes in what regards cruising and sailing.

If nobody wanted that kind of boat for cruising, the Pogo 10.50, a cruising boat with a swinging keel, would not have a 3 year waiting list. In a time where many boatbuilders experience difficulties that means that there are a significant number of sailors that want that choice for cruising and sailing.

Do you think those are inexperienced sailors and don't know what they are buying? Think again, their typical buyer is a very experienced sailor that knows exactly what we wants and why. Funny thing is that they are of very different ages. I mean there are young and old sailors buying Pogo and that is not probably such a surprise since its designer, Jean Michel Finot, one of the most successful boat designers (hundreads of boats designed) had chose that particular one has its personal boat, for cruising, with its wife. Did I say that he is about 70 year's old? It seems evident that he knows exactly what kind of boat he wants and why.

Regards

Paulo
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  #335  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Again, I like to cruise but I like as much to SAIL, or if we put it on road terms, I like as much to drive as to travel. And regarding the pleasure for one that really likes to drive, an Audi A5 is a caravan, if compared with a sport car. It is a effective machine but not a pleasure machine or a fast machine, like a Ferrari.
This statement sums it up for me also, I would much rather
cruise in a race boat than race in a cruising boat. I enjoy
getting places under sail, and the trip is every bit as important
as the destination. In general, a spartan race boat has all the
accomodation I require for cruising, but the Pogo, like all 'Open'
class designs, wants to be sailed at large angles of heel all
of the time. This would get old on a cruise.
This thread has truely brought some intesting boats to
the light, great job guys. I would like to see some of these
boats out on the water, but all the marinas I have seen
are over populated by CataBeneHunters with in the mast
furling that rely on their Yanmars for primary locomotion.
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  #336  
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Evosion 34

OK, too much talk

New boat. Marty,this one is going to make you envy, and please don't ask about the price, because it is not cheap, for sure.

It comes from the land of beautiful boats, Denmark (X-Yachts, Luffe, Nordship) and its the Vivace 34, a gorgeous little fast boat with a great interior. Words are not needed, the pictures and the movie tell it all

What you think about it guys?























http://www.evosion.dk/wp-content/upl...ce-ENGLISH.pdf

EVOSION Ľ Concept


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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  #337  
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Great

Indeed, land of beautiful boats! This looks really great!
Ulf
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  #338  
Old 11-05-2010
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Paulo...'disagreement' said in the friendliest of terms.

Reason I said Audi A6 was to emphasise the cruising. I'm happy to be poddling along. Maybe I am just getting old. Mind you I'd love to have a drive in a Bugatti..then again reality is if I was in the market for something low slung I'd probably go R8.

I guess my point was that if I wanted a boat for weekedning or for just a few weeks on board at a time then something like the Pogo would be fine and a lot of fun. I'd not want one as my home, for that something like the Luffe would be more my speed.

ps - I think for what you are after the Salona would be a fine choice. I like that boat a lot.
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  #339  
Old 11-05-2010
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Very pretty. Damn those Scandinavians have a sense of quality and craftsmanship. Look at that tiller. What a joy to use and to simply look at. Beautiful.

To have all that in such a simple racey boat is quite exceptional.
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  #340  
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Paulo,

For how I sail etc, how does one say "PUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRFECT!" the cockpit layout, fantastic. Interior, I can see some fixes, but I am being nit picky to the nth degree!

I can not see a true floorplan drawing, but I am pretty sure I could draw out the floorplan if need be. I do not see an ice chest or equal. That is the only thing I picture wrong. With that, I am sure it is there, but it's the where!

I could live quite happily with that boat for a good many years. Interior looks big enough to suit my wife. Its quick. I could cruise it here in the salish sea, ie puget sound north to BC islands etc. If I wanted to do a circumnav of Vancouver Island I could, or up to Alaska on the inside passage.........

Looks sailable with 1 or 2 folks easy enough, everything gets to the helms man for the most part, 2 folks could easily sail it.......perfect keeps coming up. I definetly have a new favorite boat. Now to show to spouse!

I have to admit, from a cost point, the new 1st 35 would be my choice at this moment.........but this Evosion........ droools......
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