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  #3451  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo, Yes the Boreals look lovely. I didn't know the Pogo could dry out, interesting. There were Pogos in the ARC and they were quite quick although I don't know if they were liftkeel versions.

Paul
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  #3452  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by distantshores View Post
I didn't know the Pogo could dry out, interesting. There were Pogos in the ARC and they were quite quick although I don't know if they were liftkeel versions.

Paul
In theory, every Pogo with a swinging keel should be able to dry out, the lifted keel and the twin rudders providing a perfectly stable basis.
But this is not a good idea, because both rudders and keel are built in composite. Their surface is all vinylester/glassfibre/PVC foam core, also around the lead ballast, and carefully faired to racing standards.
Unlike iron cast keels where you only risk the paint, if the boats sits on a rock or any other scraping surface, at least the gelcoat of the leading edge of the keel will be damaged and that would really be a shame. Also for the bottom edge of the rudders.

Referring to earlier posts, I very much agree that a separate, waterproof compartment around the rudder stock(s) is an important offshore safety feature. Even more with twin rudders, since these are much more vulnerable without the protection of the keel (cfr. the UFO damage on Tanguy De Lamotte’s Initiatives Coeur in the Vendée Globe).
And a serious “crash box” in the bow, which we only use to stow light fenders and warps instead of heavy sails.

In my opinion, adequate stowage is not only a comfort issue but also has important safety implications (cfr. the earlier issue about a readily available boarding ladder in an emergency).
On our boat the starboard aft “cabin” is dedicated to technical hardware (fuel tank, autopilot, hot water bulb, battery charger, heating, etc.) and stowing. Quite huge, even with all the sails in there (spinnaker, code 0, staysail), life jackets, grab bag, dehumidifier, spares and all other kinds of equipment, there is still more than enough space to sleep a big (bad ) child.

But my point is: this “cabin” is only accessible through the heads compartment. And believe me, this makes pushing and pulling a spinnaker or even a (very heavy Dacron) staysail in and out quite a job. And the unrolling/wetted toilet paper systematically ruins the very last bit of fun with this maneuver .

Making this huge stowing space also accessible from the cockpit through a nice, wide hatch in the cockpit seat would of course make life very much easier.
Why not? Structures will not discuss about this: it’s unsafe, so we won’t do it.

What’s your opinion?

Kind regards,

Eric
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  #3453  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I agree that having the a hatch entry into the storage area may be unsafe. But we are big boys and girls who go sailing off over the horizon and if the hatch can be secured properly it would not be a problem. Most blue water boats have big hatches in the cockpit with the potential to fill with water. The company making the boat just needs to be willing to put the effort into making them safe.

What I hate about having storage room without top hatches is how dirty the boat gets. Just bringing fenders that have been over the side for a while have nice green goop and oily smudge on them. It is hard to wash them when leaving port trying to raise sails etc. So much nicer when you can just drop them down into a box from above. Same for wet sails that need to be put away quickly, nothing like dripping saltwater on the inside soul of the boat to walk in and spread everywhere. Salt on cloth covers is so enjoyable to sit on.
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  #3454  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
...
Referring to earlier posts, I very much agree that a separate, waterproof compartment around the rudder stock(s) is an important offshore safety feature. Even more with twin rudders, since these are much more vulnerable without the protection of the keel (cfr. the UFO damage on Tanguy De Lamotte’s Initiatives Coeur in the Vendée Globe).
And a serious “crash box” in the bow, which we only use to stow light fenders and warps instead of heavy sails.

In my opinion, adequate stowage is not only a comfort issue but also has important safety implications (cfr. the earlier issue about a readily available boarding ladder in an emergency).
On our boat the starboard aft “cabin” is dedicated to technical hardware (fuel tank, autopilot, hot water bulb, battery charger, heating, etc.) and stowing. Quite huge, even with all the sails in there (spinnaker, code 0, staysail), life jackets, grab bag, dehumidifier, spares and all other kinds of equipment, there is still more than enough space to sleep a big (bad ) child.

But my point is: this “cabin” is only accessible through the heads compartment. And believe me, this makes pushing and pulling a spinnaker or even a (very heavy Dacron) staysail in and out quite a job. And the unrolling/wetted toilet paper systematically ruins the very last bit of fun with this maneuver .

Making this huge stowing space also accessible from the cockpit through a nice, wide hatch in the cockpit seat would of course make life very much easier.
Why not? Structures will not discuss about this: it’s unsafe, so we won’t do it.

What’s your opinion?

Kind regards,

Eric
Yes and no

Yes regarding the front crash box. I have also one on my boat, or two, since the first bulkhead for the anchor locker and the second one for the sail locker are both waterproof and yes, it is also an important safety feature.

Yes and no for the rudders. For me in what regards safety the best type is your type of rudders, I mean two but with a safety device that swings them if they hit an object.

That is true that they have the disadvantage of being more exposed without the keel protection and that is a disadvantage. But today on performance cruisers (and even on modern cruisers) the rudders are so deep that they have almost the same length of the keel to the point that I am always very cautious when mooring the boat med style on small med ports. The transom stays near the wall and I can have depth for the keel and not for the rudder.

Also if you damage one, or have any problem with it, you still have the other. you will only able to sail to one tack (maybe even able to sail slowly to the other one) but will be able to motor the boat.

Regarding lockers that open to the interior of a big storage space and in the case of your boat it is really big: No....and yes. Having a cockpit looker opening to the interior of all the boat, no. I agree that would be dangerous but you can subdivide that technical/storage space making a water proof bulkhead and having it accessible from the outside, I mean, a relatively big locker isolated from the rest of the boat. Of course for big I don't mean the full side of your storage/technical space but just a fraction of it.

Other sportive boats use big waterproof hatches (the same type you have on the cockpit of your boat) that can be open and closed from outside and that allow the access to lockers.

There is always a way of solving problems...but it is expensive specially if they had not previewed that from the beginning. They would have to make new moldings for that part of the boat.

Regards

Paulo
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  #3455  
Old 01-29-2013
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Neo 400: What a boat

I love Italian design and Italian boats. Sure French boats are great but they don't have the flare of Italian boats. Just look at this one:












That is a Ceccarelli design (Azuree 40) and Giovanni Ceccarelli says about it:

Being invited by the new Brand of Neo yachts is like a breath of fresh air...Neo offered us the chance to make something special...The new company ambition was to creare the perfect stylish but dual purpose modern yacht... comfortable, safe and dry for offshore cruising but fully competitive under IRC and ORCI rules.

The boat uses a lifting bulb keel that does not require hydraulic. That is very interesting and I would like to know more about that.

This is, of course, a State of the art full prepreg-unidirectional carbon fiber racer-cruiser 40′ yacht .

The Principal Dimension goes with the looks, just great:


LOA 12.15 m
BMAX 3.99 m
DRAFT 2.70/1.60 m
DSPL = 4600 kg
BALLAST = 2400 kg
FRESH WATER TANKS = 250 Lt
FUEL TANKS = 100 Lt
ENGINE POWER Volvo Penta S drive
SAIL AREA UPWIND = 100 sqm
Gennaker : 165 sqm


The fuel tankage seems not much but who needs an engine with a boat like this? 100 sqm upwind to 4600kg? Jesus, do you had a look at the B/D ratio of this boat? With all the ballast on a bulb at 2.7m? and with a considerable beam. This boat will not only sail with as little as 3 or 4K wind ( going over wind speed) as it will be able to go upwind in a gale like a rocket pointing like a devil. That is a STIFF boat

they say about it:

Italian design and style
and I can only agree and I will add, at its best.

and I am wasting to much time on this but I had to share this one, what a boat

....
Mr W likes this.

Last edited by PCP; 01-30-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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Boat tests: Salona 41, Dufour 36P, Grand Soleil 39.

Starting by an unusual one coming from the other side of the world, from the main sailing NZ magazine and those guys know one or two things about sailing, a sail test on the Salona 41. What do you think was their opinion on the boat?:

http://www.salonayachts.com/document...%2001-2013.pdf

Then two from the German magazine "Yacht" regarding the Dufour 36p that shows why the boat won the title of 2013 European performance cruiser:

Dufour 36: Clever High Performer - uk.boats.com

and another one now about the Grand Soleil 39 and I guess that it explains why the GS 39 did not had a chance against the Dufour. By the way "stick" means mast that's how good the translation is

Grand Soleil 39: Nifty, charming and fast - uk.boats.com
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Clipper 70

You know the Clipper Round the World race? That kind of VOR for amateurs on heavy steel boats? These ones:








Well, no more. I mean they will continue to race with amateurs that pay for the thrill but they will not do it on an old steel boat but on a relatively modern "race" boat. Nothing exciting, a design from Tony Castro, but a much more modern, lighter and faster boat than the previous one, a composite boat.

Clipper Race - The Clipper 70












Nothing wrong with the boat but it is certainly a faster and more demanding boat to sail than the previous one and for what I have seen on previous races about everybody with a minimum of sailing experience can enter the "race" providing it has the money for it. This boat will not be too demanding for an inexperienced crew? I have my doubts.

...
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Dusseldorf boat show: a better view.

Several new boats can be seen between them the Elan 400 the Sunbeam 28.1, the winner 9.0, the Premier 45.



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Nostalgia

I was throwing out some old pictures from my archive when I found these oldies. They are nice, maybe you like them too:













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Old 01-30-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Love this boat porn first thing in the morning, Thanks Paulo. From the looks of it the Dusseldorf boat show is the largest boat venue in the world. It puts the Annapolis show in the dust for sure.
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