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  #3461  
Old 01-30-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi- PCP ?what is the wooden boat under construction. ?Is it edge nailed strip plank on laminated frame. ?Is it out of Lundenburg
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  #3462  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Hi- PCP ?what is the wooden boat under construction. ?Is it edge nailed strip plank on laminated frame. ?Is it out of Lundenburg
Sorry I do not have any of that info but can you imagine walking into that shop and the smell of that beautiful wood.

Also don't you love the neatness of a master shipwright.

Thanks PCP for the pics.

Cheers
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  #3463  
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Dusseldorf

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Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Love this boat porn first thing in the morning, Thanks Paulo. From the looks of it the Dusseldorf boat show is the largest boat venue in the world. It puts the Annapolis show in the dust for sure.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes it will not be only Annapolis boat show but all of them. I used to go to Barcelona that is a relatively big boat show and then to Paris but even if Paris has a lot of nice boats from small local builders, not even that one can compare to Dusseldorf. Those movies that I have posted refereed to sailing-boats and that is just a fraction of the show. On this video from last year you can have a better idea of the dimension. Just imagine that each sector is as big as the one with sailboat cruisers and you will have an idea:



and also the amount of information you have available is incredible not only on account of the exposed stuff but because all the guys that really know about anything related to any marine subject are there somewhere, from naval architects to engine and transmission engineers passing by sail-makers.

If you want any information about technical stuff it happens like that: First you talk with the pretty smiling girl on the stand that don't know nothing about anything and calls Mr X that at least understands what you are talking about and phone to Mr Y that is the real technician (enginer, NA) and is very happy to talk with someone that appreciates his knowledge and with whom he can exchange some interesting information.

Trough the years I had some interesting conversations with lots of interesting people, including EriK Stromberg that is a fascinating guy, a good sailor and is in great measure responsible by the success of modern Jeanneaus. Much of the direction the shipyard took on the last years is due to his influence...and it's funny because he is an American.



Another interesting thing is that the boat show is so big, with so many boats and stuff that you don't have to wait to visit the boats, specially if you come on a week day and even in the week-end that is not a problem.

Many people ask themselves why a nice relatively small city hosts the biggest boat show in the world. That has to do with centrality and the excellence of public transportation in central Europe. Look at the map: Dusseldorf is near an incredible number of big cities with fast train linkages to all. At about the same distance that separates Dusseldorf from Hamburg or Berlin (or closer) you have London, Paris, Brussels, Antwerp, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Cologne, Frankfort, Munich, Stuttgart, Luxembourg, Zurich, Strasbourg, Geneva and just a bit more far away, Prague, Copenhagen, Malmo, Vienna, Gothenburg and Milan. If you consider that and the excellent airplane net, railway and metro public transportation on that area and particularly in Dusseldorf, it starts to make a lot of sense.

Even from Portugal, that is one of the European's most distant countries from Dusseldorf, it's only 2.5 hours on a direct airplane flight.

And they are also clever, do you know that when you buy a ticket, even by Internet, the ticket provides free transportation (inside city limits) to and from the fair? I know you would love to visit it and consider that is also a great place as a base to visit central Europe (not to mention an old brewery in the old town center that makes its own beer, one of the best I have ever tasted).

Best regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-30-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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  #3464  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

An actual variety of real sailboats to look at and no lineups??? Both of those things are pretty much unheard of here in the PNW.. that would be a treat.

The only saving grace of our (admittedly midget) boat shows here in Vancouver and Seattle are the coincidental floating venues..
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  #3465  
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Bluenose

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
Sorry I do not have any of that info but can you imagine walking into that shop and the smell of that beautiful wood.

Also don't you love the neatness of a master shipwright.

Thanks PCP for the pics.

Cheers
The truth is that I can't remember. It is an old photo that I had taken from the net long ago.

But this one I know, its the Bluenose II a replica of a Canadian Famous boat:







Regards

Paulo
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Re: Bluenose

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
....

But this one I know, its the Bluenose II a replica of a Canadian Famous boat:

Paulo
... and here she is from last summer, just weeks before relaunch in Lunenbergh at the end of her latest refit.

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  #3467  
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Re: Neo 400: What a boat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I love Italian design and Italian boats. Sure French boats are great but they don't have the flare of Italian boats. Just look at this one:



That is a Ceccarelli design (GS39) and Giovanni Ceccarelli says about it:

Being invited by the new Brand of Neo yachts is like a breath of fresh air...Neo offered us the chance to make something special...The new company ambition was to creare the perfect stylish but dual purpose modern yacht... comfortable, safe and dry for offshore cruising but fully competitive under IRC and ORCI rules.

The boat uses a lifting bulb keel that does not require hydraulic. That is very interesting and I would like to know more about that.

This is, of course, a State of the art full prepreg-unidirectional carbon fiber racer-cruiser 40′ yacht .

The Principal Dimension goes with the looks, just great:


LOA 12.15 m
BMAX 3.99 m
DRAFT 2.70/1.60 m
DSPL = 4600 kg
BALLAST = 2400 kg
FRESH WATER TANKS = 250 Lt
FUEL TANKS = 100 Lt
ENGINE POWER Volvo Penta S drive
SAIL AREA UPWIND = 100 sqm
Gennaker : 165 sqm


The fuel tankage seems not much but who needs an engine with a boat like this? 100 sqm upwind to 4600kg? Jesus, do you had a look at the B/D ratio of this boat? With all the ballast on a bulb at 2.7m? and with a considerable beam. This boat will not only sail with as little as 3 or 4K wind ( going over wind speed) as it will be able to go upwind in a gale like a rocket pointing like a devil. That is a STIFF boat

they say about it:

Italian design and style
and I can only agree and I will add, at its best.

and I am wasting to much time on this but I had to share this one, what a boat

....
Paulo,

Ceccarelli was the designer for the Azuree line of Turkish boatyard Sirena Marine. Maybe you're confusing the name with Claudio Maletto. I did like the "chiseled" look of the Azurees. The Azuree 40 is posted on page 109 of this thread, same page as the first renderings of the GS39. Don't know how the yard has done, but the lines of Azurees were provocative. I remember a video of a 40 heeling and stalling into the wind. If the helmsman slipped, he was going to slide 10 feet down! I'm still very suspect of those superwide sterns, unless your boat is a BeneSense and doesn't heel because of its SA/D.


Cheers,

Hans
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  #3468  
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Elan 400

Surprise surprise, that Elan 400 interior is better than what it looks on the photos. Definitively it looks better than the one of the Dehler 41 (but not as good as the one of the Dehler 38). On the outside the boat looks smashing, hull included.

I like it a lot and this one is probably going to be a very good upwind boat. A boat with a moderate beam, a big ballast, 2.40 of draft, a torpedo keel and 33% of B/D will also be a stiff boat and the hull looks just right. And the design of the transom seems to be designed in a way to give it added stability form downwind.




















The shortcoming comes with a relatively small galley. The boat has only a 3 cabin version and it is a shame. With a bigger storage space, occupying par of the starboard aft cabin, the rest could be used to expand that small galley.

In that regard that, the Salona 41 is much better, with a bigger galley, and a bigger salon, specially on the 2 cabin version.



360 view - Salona Yachts

That's true that it has one more 1 ft but it is also true that both boats cost about the same.

I hope that they will understand that a 2 cabin boat with a bigger galley will have a much bigger cruising potential and propose a 2 cabin version because that hull is just beautiful and those two rudders will offer an added advantage in what regards control.

I will be certainly very curious to see if the sail-tests will confirm the sailing potential that seems to be a promise on that boat.

....
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Last edited by PCP; 01-30-2013 at 08:10 PM.
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  #3469  
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Re: Neo 400: What a boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMoll View Post
Paulo,

Ceccarelli was the designer for the Azuree line of Turkish boatyard Sirena Marine. Maybe you're confusing the name with Claudio Maletto. I did like the "chiseled" look of the Azurees. The Azuree 40 is posted on page 109 of this thread, same page as the first renderings of the GS39. Don't know how the yard has done, but the lines of Azurees were provocative. I remember a video of a 40 heeling and stalling into the wind. If the helmsman slipped, he was going to slide 10 feet down! I'm still very suspect of those superwide sterns, unless your boat is a BeneSense and doesn't heel because of its SA/D.
Hi Hans,

You are right, Claudio Maletto is the designer of the GS39 and of the new GS 43. I was induced in error because Ceccarelli was saying that the Neo 400 was designed by the same team that designed the 39 and I did not think.

Ceccarelli was referring this baby when he talked about the 39:







Ceccarelli designed the "Mascalzone Latino" one of the Italian America's cup monohuls also the entire line of Azuree and Rimar and many other boats (he is only young on its designs ).

Fact is that on the Rimar designs and on the Azuree 40 I don't like the B/D ratio he uses neither the AVS of those boats that is related with that.

On those super wide sterns, as you say, it is better you have something to hold on, or, like the Pogo, have a ruder position away from the stern and more on the center of the boat (where the boat is not so beamy) and also it is better to check the stability curve in what regards AVS. With all that form stability the boat does not need a lot of ballast to sail but needs it to provide reserve stability. The Pogo 12.50 has a good reserve stability and a good AVS, the Azuree 40 has only an acceptable one.

Some more drawings from the Neo 400:







I love that last version, the "Loft" one. Very interesting and one that goes with the boat modernity. The boat seems to have lot's of storage aft (from the outside) so it is possible that it will even be a functional one in what regards storage.

Regards

Paulo
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  #3470  
Old 01-31-2013
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Elan 400

Regarding hew Elan 400 and its hull, take a look at these pictures:





Look at how hull chine is high near the transom and look to that slightly big rounded surface that goes there to the underwater center of the hull. Ker was the first to develop this type of hulls and even if not as marked as on ker boats its meaning its clear. This boat is designed to sail upwind with more heel than the average modern boat.

The hull max resistance to heeling (hull form stability) will be produced when all that gently curved lateral surface (from the chine to the center of the boat) is all on the water, with the boat with 20/25º of heel. Than to continue to heel that chine has to be also on the water, offering added resistance. As I said most boats with chines work the same way but the max resistance happens at a much lower angle.

That is so on this (and Ker boats) to assure that to the max hull form stability corresponds a big ballast stability, that as we know is obtained with heeling.

Sydney 43:



Elan 400:




The Elan 400 has a big draft, all weight in a torpedo and a high B/D ratio and that means power at considerable angles of heeling with more power for that hull form also with a considerable heel.

This boats has a moderate beam and is not the type of boats that needs immediately a considerable heeling to sail (narrow beam) but it is the type of boat that goes to 20º and there will be stiff as a rock. I like it

That's why I have said from the beginning that this hull has nothing to do with with the one from the Elan 350:



That will put is chine on the water with considerably less heel.

....
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Last edited by PCP; 01-31-2013 at 07:05 AM.
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