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  #3511  
Old 02-04-2013
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Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
...
What do you know about Elvestron sails? We are considering their radial cut sails for our modern designed boat. They have some really amazing footage of their factory on youtube that we have watched.

We have been always into some of Americas best custom sail makers in the past for our previous traditional boats. Thought folks would like to see their websites as they do incredible hand work. Now we are interested in more modern designed sails to complement the new boat. We have to make up our minds soon on a sail maker in Europe.
...
I had top cruising Elvestron sails on the Bavaria 36. In 2002 they were called "Ocean" and were sandwich sails with mylar inside. They worked well for 6 years but the main got some mold inside and that is the problem with sandwich sails. I made about 15000nm with them and they retained a good shape. For me it was time for new sails when I sold the boat in 2008 but I think that the guy to whom I sold the boat still has the same sails.

Last summer on my "new" boat I blew two kevlar/mylar race sails in a blow (8/9B) and even if the sails flogged a little I was surprised with the fragility of those sails compared with my previous ones. Later I talked with the sailmaker that repaired the sails (a Greek) that said to that for long range cruising and for many months of use a year there is only one material: Dracon.

Even if he said to me that he also made race sails I was not convinced but in Italy I spoke with the owner of loft specialized in racing sails, a good one, that said to me exactly the same thing and this guy does his own laminates so it is quite good. This time I was convinced

I learned also that there are different types of Dracon. He said to me that Elvstrom sails were not as good as his own but I don't know if it is true or not. It is a very nice guy and I rely enjoy his honesty. He took my sails again for doing a better repair and showed to me that I had an inappropriate fit on my jibe and took it for correction, all at a price that it seemed more than fair to me. This guy is the one that makes the standard sails for Comet yachts besides racing sails for many Italian racers.

The site is this one:

Veleria Speedsails

Regarding Elvstrom I would chose Dracon strong warp.

http://www.elvstromsails.com/images/...atrix_2012.jpg

Besides Elvstrom another sailmakers that are going strong are:

OneSails Sailmakers - The Next Generation of Sails

North Sails: The World's Leading Sailmaker

There are also good French sailmakers:

Voilerie Incidences, conception, fabricant de voiles pour bateaux de croisires, comptition, rgates, courses

Voilerie DELTA Voiles Montpellier, code D, genois, grand voile, spi, trinquette et gennaker sur emmagasineur, cruising et racing, réparation, voiles d'occasion

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-04-2013 at 06:32 PM.
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  #3512  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Thank you Paulo for all the info, I knew you would come through. I will owe you and the wife a seafood dinner and a good bottle of wine the way it is going. I will look through your info carefully and let you know how we went. I certainly will look into the Elvstrom HN Radials carefully. Though we have talked with folks who are serious cruisers and have had no problems after 2 years. I know on Morgans Cloud site they have discussed these cut sails and have also said they are 100% improved from the past and now last all most as long as Dacron but like we all know keep their shape longer than Dacron.

But when spending all that money you want to know you are getting it right. We are willing to take some educated risk so we really do have the right sails for the boat.

Cheers

Steve

Last edited by hannah2; 02-04-2013 at 07:24 PM.
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  #3513  
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Re: sails

I guess two years will not be a problem but I want at least 6

Take a look at the sails of the Vendee Globe boats: The pictures I have seen of the mains show sails in pretty bad shape. Sure they maintain the shape but you can see delamination. I guess a Vendee Globe worth for about 3 years in what regards the use I give them, but not in what regards folding.

The real problem with laminated sails is when you fold them on the lazy bag and most of all when you reef them. They hate to be folded and they can sustain a limited number of folds before start to delaminate.

On the vendee globe they have the big advantage of having the sails always up and never on a lazy bag, except when reefed.

I confess I don't know much about the subject but a long talk with the owner of Speedsails (Miro) was very instructive. He sure knows a lot more than me.

I wanted to have performance sails, he is a specialist in laminated sails and even so he advised me against after inquiring about how much time I sail.

He said that if I really wanted the extra performance the best choice was the type of sails I had on the Bavaria, Sandwich sails (expensive sails). He makes them too but even so he says that nothing is as durable as a good Dracon sail. Have a look at his sandwich sails:

Veleria Speedsails

go to randa (mainsail), then to Randa structure cruising and then download " visualizza la Brochure" (download)

If you cannot find anybody that can deal with you on a personal basis and that you fell that can give you good advise, I will give you Miro's telephone number and I am sure that a good talk with him will put you on the right track. At least you will understand clearly what are the different options. He speaks very good English, I am sure he knows perfectly what he is talking about and he is honest.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-04-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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  #3514  
Old 02-05-2013
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Dusseldorf: Allures 45

That was also a surprise. I knew very well Allures and I had visited the previous models so why the surprise?:

The quality of finish of the boat improved greatly to the point of being comparable to Swedish boats that not only are not aluminum boats but are more expensive. I was really impressed with the price and finish quality.

Allures were solid and well built but a bit rustic, like the OVNIS. Good quality around and a decent design but nothing special.

Your wife would not buy the previous model for its interior. Well, this one she will want it only for the interior quality in design and finish. Your wife will positively love it. I forecast a big increase in sales for Allures, a boat that is not only a good and fast sailboat (aluminum centerboarder) as have a better stability compared with the OVNI and one probably similar to the one from Boreal 44.

Have a good look at this interior:

Allures 45 - Allures Yachting





I really would like to have a look at a Boreal, one of the best boats in this category. Never saw one and it was not there. In some aspects it is an even more practical boat in what regards voyaging but I wonder if the quality of design and finish matches the one from Allures.

...

Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2013 at 08:16 AM.
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Ice 62

One of the things that seem to differentiate Italian millionaires from other millionaires is that they have a passion for fast sailing yachts. That makes them my preferred millionaires

Have a look at the insolent beauty of the new Ice 62, a Felci design. It's a carbon light and strong boat (only 14 000kg) and that reduced weight has not only to do with the high tech hull but also with a very modern lifting torpedo keel that when down gives it a 4m draft maximizing the effect of the ballast. That draft makes possible a relatively ballast (3 500kg) for the same generated RM that would require a much bigger one for a reasonable cruising draft.








Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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Vendee Globe

And Jean Pierre Dick managed to bring back the boat home without a keel (the last 2500nm) and has welcomed has a winner. Big crowd saluting a great sailor and a great feat.


Les temps forts de l'arrivée de Jean-Pierre Dick por VendeeGlobeTV

The Vendée Globe welcome afforded to fourth placed Jean-Pierre Dick by a huge and passionate crowd was one worthy of a race winner.... The skipper who is originally from Nice and only really took to the IMOCA class ten years ago left Les Sables d’Olonne 88 days ago as one of the favorites and returned one of the outstanding heroes.

Dick took disappointments in his stride but they took their toll on his overall performance.

First, he recalled, he lost a key small gennaker in the water – one which would have been his reaching workhorse in the South which forced him to re-think his strategy at times. Then he struggled with a jammed halyard hook which left him unable to set the optimum headsail for some time. He eventually climbed the mast of Virbac-Paprec 3 several times to free it but lost more miles. His problems were capped when he lost his keel on the evening of 21st Janaury.

And so his fourth place reflects the incredible tenacity of JP Dick. He concluded with a Chinese proverb:

“The goal is not in the goal but in the pathway.”
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  #3517  
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Re: Dusseldorf: Allures 45

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That was also a surprise. I knew very well Allures and I had visited the previous models so why the surprise?:

The quality of finish of the boat improved greatly to the point of being comparable to Swedish boats that not only are not aluminum boats but are more expensive. I was really impressed with the price and finish quality.

Allures were solid and well built but a bit rustic, like the OVNIS. Good quality around and a decent design but nothing special.

Your wife would not buy the previous model for its interior. Well, this one she will want it only for the interior quality in design and finish. Your wife will positively love it. I forecast a big increase in sales for Allures, a boat that is not only a good and fast sailboat (aluminum centerboarder) as have a better stability compared with the OVNI and one probably similar to the one from Boreal 44.

Have a good look at this interior:

Allures 45 - Allures Yachting





I really would like to have a look at a Boreal, one of the best boats in this category. Never saw one and it was not there. In some aspects it is an even more practical boat in what regards voyaging but I wonder if the quality of design and finish matches the one from Allures.

...
Boreal has done an outstanding job over the last year with building their interior. When we first took a look it was just fine but they have opened up a new carpentry shop and I must say when we were over at Boreal in September the work was even better. That is coming from someone who owned a Mason44 with matched teak, mahogany, and Holly in the interior.

The new designs are much lighter and feeling more airy. That is a new and good concept with deck raised saloons. The sea berths are dark enough for good sleeping during the day when on passage. At our asking Boreal put more handholds in the interior especially around the galley area. We are also having the seat back over the centerboard for the salon table seats, just one more thing to hold on to while going forward in the interior.

I do not know if the interior matches the Allures but I'm sure the interior seaworthiness will be close. I have never been a fan of the European style galley instead of the old U shaped galley but I realize on a boat 44 feet it would be hard to have a raised salon and a U shaped galley. We will learn how to use the galley space properly while at sea. Cruising boats are always a compromise somewhere. But we are happy with how Boreal really works hard at pleasing our desires and needs. Truly outstanding so far I must say, That maybe hard to find in today's world in boat building. Only 5 months to go.

As for the sails we will make the right choice after much discussion with cruising friends and experts alike.

Thanks
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Re: Ice 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
One of the things that seem to differentiate Italian millionaires from other millionaires is that they have a passion for fast sailing yachts. That makes them my preferred millionaires

Have a look at the insolent beauty of the new Ice 62, a Felci design. It's a carbon light and strong boat (only 14 000kg) and that reduced weight has not only to do with the high tech hull but also with a very modern lifting torpedo keel that when down gives it a 4m draft maximizing the effect of the ballast. That draft makes possible a relatively ballast (3 500kg) for the same generated RM that would require a much bigger one for a reasonable cruising draft.







What is the website to see this model in detail? I tried to make a Google search, but i couldn't find out.

Last edited by APP Mode; 02-05-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Re: Ice 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by APP Mode View Post
What is the website to see this model in detail? I tried to make a Google search, but i couldn't find out.
ice yachts | Ice Yachts

This is a very interesting shipyard not only because it is specialized in high tech construction but also because it is the first Shipyard that I know that at its birth is making not one boat but three and I don't mean the designs, they are actually building the boats:

The 60ft that I posted, a 80ft and a 44ft boat. Obviously they have already the boats sold

This is only possible because this is a re-foundation of a previous shipyard, already specialized in high end boats, the CN Yacht 2000 that has built many 60 and 80fts. Have a look:

Il cantiere

These are the other boats, first the 80ft, than the 44ft (both Felci designs):











Regards

Paulo
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RC 44 downwid

Not properly a downwind boat the RC 44...but with lot's of wind the boat can go faster...and a bit like a submarine

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