That is a great video that was posted on another thread by James Wilson but as this thread seems to be the local where those that like fast boats hang around, here it is:
Not a very frequent figure on a Figaro II that is a solo racing boat and therefore with a bigger tolerance than a boat designed to do full crewed racing.
These are no amateuts but professional racers testing the boat limits. They are followed not by a reporter boat bot by their coach that is filming for analyzing the performance and errors later with them. I guess they had a lot to analyze that day
They explain the accident:
They where training at the EMC Training (Training Center Mediterranean).
On the boat Xavier Macaire and Yves Le Blevec going at 15 knots downwind with a 35K wind. They put up their small spinnaker and quickly pass to 20K speed. "Normally Macaire says, the Figaro, it's manageable on these conditions ..." Except that in this case, the operation resulted in an involuntary spectacular figure, the kind it is usual in multihulls.
The mistake? "We had not moved all the equipment to the back of the boat and we had to sail well downwind to stay away of the coast," said Macarius. "So it was difficult for Yves to unload the bow." Good result.
This race is beginning to look epic. I never saw anything like that. After all it seems that Armel can be as fast as François and they keep pushing, overtaking one another several times a day in a kind of crazy match race on the furious fifties averaging 19k over 24 hours leaving everybody behind. Actually they are so close that sometimes they can see each other
"Sailing their own match race into the open wilds of the Pacific, the leading duo in the Vendée Globe have begun to extend away again. But not from each other. Armel Le Cléac’h (Banque Populaire) said he could see Francois Gabart (MACIF), no more than two miles away they passed the Auckland Islands, on the radar overnight. For his part, Gabart sent home a video trying, but not wholly succeeding, to show Le Cléac’h’s sails in the distance.
The two did not hesitate as they crossed the Campbell Plateau, with the big rough seas caused by the vertiginous shelf on its western boundary. Le Cléac’h spoke of hand steering through an area where the human touch is more responsive than even these modern autopilots.
Le Cléac’h maintained the slenderest of leads – just 2.2 miles – at the 1500hrs UTC ranking. “We could see each other (Gabart) in the fog,” Le Cléac’h said. “I wanted to talk to him on the VHF, it didn’t work,but, no, I’m not mad at him or anything. I’m definitely keeping an eye on him, though.”
Denis Horeau, the race director for four of the seven editions (the first in 1989 and the last three since 2004-05), cannot remember anything like it. "
I saw the XP33 at the Nautique and I have to say I was left a little puzzled. It seemed to me neither super fast (it's too heavy for that at 4,300kg) nor with enough amenities down below to be useable as anything more than a weekend cruiser, and even then it's pretty spartan down below. The WC for example is basically unusable the way it is set up now.
I realize that my reaction is purely personal and that it's hard to get the balance right between speed and cruisability in a boat like this. For example, I prefer the bargain struck in the new Winner 9.00. See images attached.
I saw the XP33 at the Nautique and I have to say I was left a little puzzled. It seemed to me neither super fast (it's too heavy for that at 4,300kg) nor with enough amenities down below to be useable as anything more than a weekend cruiser, and even then it's pretty spartan down below. The WC for example is basically unusable the way it is set up now.
I realize that my reaction is purely personal and that it's hard to get the balance right between speed and cruisability in a boat like this. For example, I prefer the bargain struck in the new Winner 9.00. See images attached.
Hi there
Welcome to the thread and thanks for having posted. It seems a very interesting sailboat.
A little introduction for the ones that don't know winner yachts: Winner yachts is a Dutch shipyard that, as almost all Dutch shipyards, makes high quality and somewhat expensive sailboats. He has being doing so on the last 26 years.
Initially the boats were sportive and fast (the brand was founded by two offshore racing sailors) but with the time their designs become a bit outdated, were not renovated fast enough in what regards sailboat design improvements and the boats were not fast anymore (at least compared with other performance cruisers).
Then some 5 years ago things changed with the Winner 12.20, a boat that was already posted on this thread, a modern boat with a great B/D ratio, a fast and seaworthy boat with a great high quality interior. I have been inside that boat and I was impressed with the quality.
The boat is a performance boat and a great cruiser but in what regards s a dual purpose utilization, meaning while racing, it is not a match for other performance boats. It was not a big success (I guess because it was expensive) and its racing record is quite small. He just won some minor races. More then a great dual purpose boat the Winner 12.20 was and his a fantastic high quality seaworthy fast cruising boat, one that I wouldn't mind to own
It seems that they have survived the low number of sales (Dutch are a very faithful kind if clients) and presented another modernly designed boat, a 30ft designed by Cees van Tongeren (Van de Stadt design) .
Looking at the design information it seems to be a fantastic boat, light (3 100Kg) with a good D/B (39%) with a moderate draft and a relatively modern hull.
Of course I don't believe that weight is the one of the classic version, that I think was the one showed on Bis photos, but the one regarding the performance version that probably will be as naked as the Xp33.
Comparing with the XP 33, that is a bigger boat, the Disp/Lenght rario will not be much different (171.1 to 166) being slightly lower on the winner but that is partly due to a bigger ballast ratio on the Xp (40% to 39%). Both boats share similar draft, similar keels and somewhat similar hulls in what regards Length-to-Beam Ratio but there are some differences being (in my opinion) the XP hull a more modern one and one that would offer a better performance, specially in what regards planning and downwind sailing.
The differences regards rocker on the forward sections (bigger on the Winner), finer entries, beam more aft and a transom more adequate to easy downwind control, one that will provide also more hull form stability.
A bigger rocker on the forward sections will eventually give the winner a slightly better sea motion but will not make as easy the transition to planning.
Regarding the transom and the big more carried aft (that is not extreme in the Xp 33) I can see no justification for that. It seems to me that the Xp is just a more modern and effective hull design.
Regarding the Xp being an incredibly fast boat, well, after the enthusiastic reactions of all that sailed the boat, including boat testers, it seems that there is no doubt about that and I have no doubt that it will be a winner on the race course.
We will have to wait to see if the winner will be a winner and how it compares with the Xp 33, but I have no doubt the the winner 9.00 is a great and very fast cruising boat with a interior more luxurious than the one of the Xp 33. That if course, comes with a price.
The 30ft winner costs € 102.330 with 21% VAT included. It looks to me that they are making an effort regarding price of previous boats.
The Xp33 (bigger boat), that is also an expensive boat costs with the same VAT 127.000 euros but that really means little in comparative terms. To be meaningful we would have to see what was the specifications offered at that price.
Thank you Paulo for your reply. I agree with your analysis of the difference in hull form between the two boats. The narrow entry of the Xp 33 is readily apparent when looking at the boat out of the water, and it is felt when in the forward v berth area. It looks to me like Van de Stadt has decided to have the max beam further forward in order to allow more space for the saloon and the forward berth area. I guess my disappointment with the Xp 33 stems from the fact that it is 1320kg heavier than a X-99, a boat that I have fond memories of. I would say it would take a veritable gale to get either the Xp 33 or certainly the Winner up on a plane. From my experience, the number of boats that actually get up on a plane is much smaller than people think.
I hope next years European Boat of the Year includes the Xp 33, the Winner and the Pogo 30 in the small boat category. To my mind they are three quite different, yet well thought out boats.
Thank you Paulo for your reply. I agree with your analysis of the difference in hull form between the two boats. The narrow entry of the Xp 33 is readily apparent when looking at the boat out of the water, and it is felt when in the forward v berth area. It looks to me like Van de Stadt has decided to have the max beam further forward in order to allow more space for the saloon and the forward berth area. I guess my disappointment with the Xp 33 stems from the fact that it is 1320kg heavier than a X-99, a boat that I have fond memories of. I would say it would take a veritable gale to get either the Xp 33 or certainly the Winner up on a plane. From my experience, the number of boats that actually get up on a plane is much smaller than people think.
I hope next years European Boat of the Year includes the Xp 33, the Winner and the Pogo 30 in the small boat category. To my mind they are three quite different, yet well thought out boats.
Best,
Frédéric
Frédéric,the A99 was and his a great boat and a great design in its time
and it is true that was it was lighter with 2890 kg to 4330kg but the Xp 33 has more 400kg of ballast so that difference is reduced to about 1000kg. if we consider that the X33 has about more 36cms im the LWL and more 21cms of beam that diffrence is explained.
Much more than that small difference in weight is the difference in power (stability) between the two boats. Not only the Xp 33 has more beam, a more modern hull that maximizes form stability (specially downwind) as it has a hugely more efficient keel with all the ballast in a torpedo. The Xp33 maximizes even more that more efficient keel with a difference in draft (1.90 to 1.75m).
I don't think that the slight bigger B/D ratio of the X99 (44% to 40%) can compensate the difference in RM on the Xp33 provided by the bigger draft and most of all by the fact that all the ballast is on the XP 33 down on a torpedo. Of course, more 21 cms of beam is a lot (in 3.0m of beam) and that will also contribute to make the Xp 33 a much more powerful boat and even if the boat has probably more wet surface due to the bigger displacement that difference is diminished by a keel with a lot less wet area.
You can see that difference in power reflected in the sail area both boats can carry downwind, the X99 carry a spy with about 80m2 and the Xp33 one with 93m2.
Regarding planning, I agree with you in what regards performance boats heavily charged for cruising, but when discharged for racing there are some boats that start to plane with medium winds and this is one if them.
We can see on a boat test that the boat is planning doing about 15K speed with a 20K wind. In this boat with this size of hull, we can consider that 10k is already a planning speed, since it is way more than hull speed. I guess that for reaching that speed the boat does not need much wind, if it carries a large spinnaker or geenaker, and the Xp33 has just the potential stability to do that without any problem.
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K2, avery strange but fast sailing boat: 36K
. I never saw anything like that. After all it seems that Armel can be as fast as François and they keep pushing, overtaking one another several times a day in a kind of crazy match race on the furious fifties averaging 19k over 24 hours leaving everybody behind. Actually they are so close that sometimes they can see each other
