Sorry to go back a few posts on this thread but the discussion on Aluminum boats was fascinating and particularly relevant to me as I am looking to buy something along those lines (perhaps Allure, Alubat or, now I have read the discussion, Boreal or Atlantic). While I am very taken with the whole variable draft thing, I think it is the advantages of Aluminum that I find most compelling. Does anyone have experience of the Alubat Cigale range and how it might compare to any of the other boats mentioned in terms of suitability for cruising?
Any insight gratefully received before I go touring French yards..........
Sorry, I missed your post. I love the Cigale and Atlantic taken apart (and now that Alliage disappeared) I would chose a Cigale over any other aluminum production boat.
Ok, it has a big disadvantage in what regards draft but I would gladly exchange that by the pleasure at the wheel and the speed. I have been inside the boat and it is just great. Other advantage is price: The boat is made by Alubat, the same builder of OVNI and the Cigale 16 (52ft) and it is considerably less expensive than a Boreal 50 and probably less expensive and with a nicer interior than a Altantic 43.
But that's me that love to go fast, have fun sailing and have no particular pleasure in going to "uncharted" territory and could live with a 2.4m draft. With you it can be a complete different case and for each boat like the Cigale there are made much more boats like the Ovni, Allures or Boreal, meaning that much more sailors gladly exchange speed and a better stability by a bigger flexibility in what regards draft and beaching the boat.
Regarding the Cigale there is a member of this forum that has one and he says the best about the boat. To find it go to the threads about Cigale and you will find his posts.
Another option of a boat that has also a very good sailing performance, a smaller draft and can be beached on 2 legs ( twin keel) is the Iroise 46. Not expensive, with 1,80m of draft and a very good stability. I have already posted about it.
Not made of aluminium but also a French favorite in what regards voyage boats is the Rm 1360, a brand new boat, also fast and with a relatively small draft. The previous boat was a great one and this one is going to be better for sure. The boat is very solid, is made of marine plywood and epoxy with a structurally integrated twin keel. A a test of the smaller boat the also new 1260 and after some videos with the 1300 that is going to be substituted by the 1360:
Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer. I share your view that it is the sailing experience rather than the exploration of shallow places that matters most. Although I have not been a member for all that long, I have found it well worthwhile to work my way through several hundred of the posts in your thread with e comfort of knowing that I am in no danger of running out reading material any time soon.
I will let you know where my search ends up and why in due course.
and continuing talking about voyage boats, Allures announced in the Paris boat show the Allures 39.9 that is going to replace the 40 that was a very successful boat and I bet this one is even more. The design is a knock out
Absolutely beautiful, considering that is much more difficult to design a good looking 40ft boat than a 45, this boat is even more beautiful than the 45.
This is a Berret/Racopeau design and it is not only the boat that looks gorgeous the hull design seems great too as well as the interior. It seems that I am too enthusiastic about this boat, but what can I say, I love the design
The dimensions seem also correct to me. This is a beamy boat to take advantage of hull stability (4.15m) it will go probably well upwind with a centerboard with a draft of 2.75m. That's huge for a 40ft. The boat will have also a good AVS and a good overall stability, since they made the deck in composite to put the weight down and have a good B/D ratio (39%).
The boat is a bit on the heavy side (10 900kg) but on small centerboarders with all the ballast inside a very light boat don't seem a good idea to me so even the weight seems right to me. Even so the boat weights less than the also new Halberg Rassy 412.
The new Allures 39.9 is a beautiful boat and well thought out. I like the galley as it is more traditional for sailors going offshore. I loved watching the video and seeing young NA's working along with such dedicated shipwrights doing the work. France has a lot of talented shipwrights who take great pride in their work.
I hope sailors in N. America who are interested in a new boat will understand that for not much more in cost they can get a great blue water sail boat built in Europe. Some of the boats that Paulo has been showing us are even less expensive than the production boats that N. Americans are use to talking about on forums and much better built.
Back in 1992 a new Mason 44 was advertised as the best blue water cruiser for under 500,000 US dollars. The Mason price was 499,999 twenty years ago. You can now get a better made, faster boat for about the same price and when you think of inflation over the last twenty years you are getting a great deal compared to the old days. And remember some of the boats Paulo has shown us are a lot less than the prices mentioned above.
Also to Monsieur Bis, we hope you will come visit us when we do sea trials for our new boat sometime in early summer. And Paulo and his wife we hope to see you in Portugal some time in the summer for a sail and dinner on our Boreal, S.V. RC LOUISE.
... And Paulo and his wife we hope to see you in Portugal some time in the summer for a sail and dinner on our Boreal, S.V. RC LOUISE.
Thanks, I would like that very much and also to receive you and your wife on our boat (Alma) or in hour house that is near Peniche (a port and marina). The problem is that in the summer I will be cruising in Greece and Turkey
What are your cruising plans for this summer?
Meanwhile since we cannot sail let's just look at some beautiful boats and that's hardly a better place for that than on the Voile the last voile de St Tropez, last summer:
According to yacht. de [ yacht de/yachten_jollen/neue_boote/scharfe-schwedin-von-der-westkueste/a76569. html ] it will cost less than 100k and have more upwind and more downwind sail-area than the larger Pogo 10.50
I think this will be a very interesting boat
[Sorry, for the scrambled links, I haven't got enough posts, do be allowed to post urls ]
Hi, welcome to the thread and thanks for posting. I have seen the boat but I don't really know what to think about it.
I knew already the Life 7.5 that is an interesting sports boat even if I don't understand that sharp transition on the transom. Sure that works well downwind but upwind with anything more than around 17º of heel it will create turbulence and drag.
Regarding the 10.0 that supposedly is a performance cruiser and not a racer I am a bit perplexed.
The boat seems to have a lot less stability (stiffness) than the Pogo 10.50 that is 600kg heavier, has a lot more beam (3.45 to 3.90m), just less 20cm of draft and seem to have a very similar keel. I cannot find the ballast on of the Life 10.0 but on the drawings there seems not to have there a substantial bulb. It has less stability and carries more sail? Scary...since the Pogo carries already a lot of sail.
For being fast is not enough to have a lot of sail, it is also necessary to have the power (RM) to carry that sail and it seems to me that the Life 10.0 should be very tricky to sail without a racing spirit not to mention autopilot use.
That boat in a windy day with gusts should be very difficult to sail upwind even with a racing spirit. maybe with a full crew on the rail, but than, it is not properly a cruising boat.
As I had said, Jean-Pierre is winning big time to the leaders and is going to win even more through the night.
The situation is inverse now: He was the weather advantage and the leaders are trying to negotiate a High Pressure center. With some luck Jean Pierre will be able to evade that and can reduce the distance the distance top the leaders in half. He needed this boost for the moral
At the head of the race they continue real close. This situation with variable winds and very weak winds is the one that get them really tired not sailing at 25K. That is also the worse situation in what regards sleeping not to mention nerves.
Really bad luck for Bernard Stamm that seems not be able to find a solution for his problems of energy and is still on anchor at Dunedin.
Stamm ready to leave Dunedin
Seeking to find a safe anchorage and decent weather to make his repairs, keynote being his hydrogenerators, Stamm arrived off Dunedin very early yesterday morning, 26th December.
His team make the point that Stamm’s concern about his ability to make electricity has bothered him since the Portuguese coast, within the first few days of the race. The situation became critical to the point that Stamm did not want to cross the Pacific without a power source. Hence he diverted and stopped off on 23rd December in the Auckland Islands. The precisions of repair operations were set, theoretically, by Stamm’s boat captain Gautier Levisse
“ At the start of the Sables d'Olonne, the hydrogenerators were mounted on little trucks on a track to raise and lower them out of the water. And we supported them with chainplates. Off Portugal one of the chainplates was damaged and so broke the track. And then the second also broke. We tried to remove the U-bolts and fix them firmly with lashings. And that took time for Bernard, but the hydros were still too loose. There was some cavitation – air being drawn in and preventing the propellors working right. The only alternative was cutting the transom.”
The level of delicacy and relative precision really left Stamm with no choice but to stop. He halted on the morning of 23rd December in the north of the Aucland Islands. He attacked the first hydrogenerator but a reinforcement of the cut was needed with some lamination and bonding. It was a complicated process. And, Stamm’s team report, his materials were limited and increasingly the weather – incessant rain – became an issue especially for trying to sand the material on the transom and getting epoxy to bond and set. In the end the odds really stacked up against him and with a gale arriving he had no choice but to move, especially considering the strong winds could push Cheminées Poujoulat on to the beach, a fate which had befallen Stamm during the 2008-9 race in the Kerguelen Islands. So he set sail for New Zealand’s South Island.
Stamm anchored at two different locations off Dunedin, moving last night due to a change in wind, but also allowing him to try one of the repaired hydrogenerators. And since yesterday he has been fixing the second unit.
"He's been trying be protected from wind and waves to work in the best possible conditions, even if everything is relative. In between times, waiting for resins to set he has been taking care of the smaller problems. He should go after daybreak local time, tonight is for us in Europe. " concludes Gautier Levisse.
Bernard’s team paid a warm tribute to Sophie Luther who lives locally who has helped with sending images and with local media contacts
Elan released the stability curve and polar of the Elan 400 and I like that boat more and more.
It is the kind of boat that can mix a very good upwind performance with a very goo downwind one, a very balanced boat and a very stiff one. With 36% of B/D with all the ballast in a bulb at 2.40m and a moderate beam 83,87m) it has to be.
I like specially the hull, not very beamy and with more rocker than many boats in its class mixed with a transom design that will give a good stability on a downwind ride.
The tankage is also good, with 350L of water and 170L of diesel. I only hope that the interior looks better than it looks on the designs. It is a pity that they had not sacrificed one of the rear cabins to move that head further aft providing a bigger and nicer salon and a dedicated smaller storage space.
Just a new look at some of the performance cruisers, starting by that Sydney 43 GTS, already mentioned, that is sailing ahead of a ker 40, probably the fastest of all racing 40fters. Well, it is all in the family since the Sydney is also a Ker designed boat. The Sydney had improved its performance since the last look overtaking 4 boats. He is racing in the 20th position while the Ker 40 comes in 22.
That First 40 fleet is making a hell of a race and improved a lot its overall position. The first one is "wicked" and it has just come from 47th to 29th place. What a race
Ariel jumped from 55 to 32, Two true from 48 to 34 and the others are coming on 37, 38, 46, 58 and 66th place. Truly amazing, specially regarding the boats ahead that are racing in the middle of much bigger boats and overtaking all the time. What a race, what a boat for upwind sailing in nasty weather