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  #3571  
Old 02-13-2013
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Polish boats : Sedna

I said that at Dusseldorf I saw a lot of good looking Polish boats. They appear solid and well built. One of those that I never heard about was Sedna. They have a 26 and a 30ft, both inexpensive for the size, with good interiors, apparently well built and good looking. They are centerboarders and their stability does not seem to be nothing special to say the least:










All boats are designed by the Polish Na Leszek Gonciarz. They are advertizing a new 36ft, a Class A boat and this one seems more interesting. No dimensions were announced but the boat looks good:






[IMG]http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy322/Paulo_Carvalho/Vega/s363_zps593201d8.jpg[/IMG


They seem to be making a lot of boats for an unknown brand:



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Last edited by PCP; 02-13-2013 at 07:15 AM.
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  #3572  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
No, no, I am going to have save travels with 2.00m. I am sailing crash-free with a 2.05 HR42 for 15 years...

1.80 would at least extend the selection of harbours (but it will slower the boat)...
If you want a boat with a very good upwind performance that will rule out the Elan 350.

200K is a lot of money for a 34/34ft boat. With that I would suggest you two boats that have a very good B/D and will have a feeling of a bigger boat: The Arcona 340 and the Dehler 35. But most of all sail test the boats. Mr K sails on a Arcona 340 (his brother's boat if I am not mistaken) and maybe he can offer you a ride.

For that kind of money you can have a bigger boat, if not one as expensive as Dehler or Arcona and I would say you to Charter a Salona 38 in Croatia. Compare both boat, I mean the Arcona and a basic Salona 38 and see what is the one that seems to fit better your needs and will satisfy you more.

Regarding the Salona 35, as you say, it is a bit low on the B/D for my taste and it seems also yours. That is not such a problem on a bigger boat but can give a smaller one a too sportive behavior as a cruising boat specially if it has so much sail as the Salona 35. Of course, Salona has the advantage of that interior steel grid and the possibility of safely add more ballast and they would do that (or at least they would do for me). I guess that on the 35, with all ballast on a torpedo, it would need only more 150/200kg on that torpedo to fit my bill.

You have also the Dufour 36p option.

The A35 and the Sunfast 3600 are in other class. Faster but with a much more limited cruising interior. First see if that interior fits your bill in what regards storage, tankage and interior comfort and if so that would be the kind of boat that would give more sailing pleasure.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-13-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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  #3573  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
If you want a boat with a very good upwind performance that will rule out the Elan 350.

200K is a lot of money for a 34/34ft boat. With that I would suggest you two boats that have a very good B/D and will have a feeling of a bigger boat: The Arcona 340 and the Dehler 35. But most of all sail test the boats. Mr K sails on a Arcona 340 (his brother's boat if I am not mistaken) and maybe he can offer you a ride.

For that kind of money you can have a bigger boat, if not one as expensive as Dehler or Arcona and I would say you to Charter a Salona 38 in Croatia. Compare both boat, I mean the Arcona and a basic Salona 38 and see what is the one that seems to fit better your needs and will satisfy you more.

Regarding the Salona 35, as you say, it is a bit low on the B/D for my taste and it seems also yours. That is not such a problem on a bigger boat but can give a smaller one a too sportive behavior as a cruising boat specially if it has so much sail as the Salona 35. Of course, Salona has the advantage of that interior steel grid and the possibility of safely add more ballast and they would do that (or at least they would do for me). I guess that on the 35, with all ballast on a torpedo, it would need only more 150/200kg on that torpedo to fit my bill.

You have also the Dufour 36p option.

The A35 and the Sunfast 3600 are in other class. Faster but with a much more limited cruising interior. First see if that interior fits your bill in what regards storage, tankage and interior comfort and if so that would be the kind of boat that would give more sailing pleasure.

Regards

Paulo
The Arcona is a real beauty. I wonder why it is lighter but has lots more of ballast. Will it even be the faster boat (compared to Salona)?

I think the SF3600 will be comfortable enough, but 2.15m might be too much. How expensive will it be?
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  #3574  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi,
If I was in the market for the kind of boat meeting Robelz's requirements, (who wouldn't like such about, except for the price), I would go for the new Luffe 3,6 coming this year. Luffe yachts have been already reviewed extensively on this thread thanks to Paulo's firsthand impressions. The new Luffe 3,6 is going to adopt some modern trends like wider beam for the traditionally narrow Luffe yachts, (the same as in Luffe 4004 but for substantially shorter LOA). It will be heavier by more than 1,5 ton than the Luffe 37, which means more cruiser oriented boat, still very good B/D ratio, more space below and stronger hull. I would be certainly interested to wait its launch and test review.

Best regards

Rumen
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Since I cannot post links in order to learn more on the boat in my previous post you can google Minbaad.dk, look for archive issue dated May 26,2012 and translate the article in original Danish.
Best regards
Rumen
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
Since I cannot post links in order to learn more on the boat in my previous post you can google Minbaad.dk, look for archive issue dated May 26,2012 and translate the article in original Danish.
Best regards
Rumen
Hi Rumen,

Thank you for posting about the new Luffe 36.6. The boat looks very good and with the habitual care on design and manufacture. I love love the photo of the designer and builder caressing his new baby

The substitution of the old 37 is already overdue and boats and fast boats like the Arcona 340 were already slightly faster.

Can you find and post the boat dimensions? I could not find them

Regarding not be able to post links, that's your fault: You should post more















Cheers

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
The Arcona is a real beauty. I wonder why it is lighter but has lots more of ballast. Will it even be the faster boat (compared to Salona)?

I think the SF3600 will be comfortable enough, but 2.15m might be too much. How expensive will it be?
Lighter with more beam and more ballast means a more powerful and stiff boat. Yes the Arcona 340 is faster, but not much. The Salona has a more modern keel with a torpedo and that helps to maximize its ballast.

Nothing better that handicap rating to give you an idea of a boat speed potential. Using the Nordic one (LYS), the arcona 340 has 1.29 and the Salona 34R (same hill as the 35) has 1.26, so yes, the Arcona 340 is slightly faster. Both are fast boats. To give you an idea a Bavaria 44 has 1.24 (the bigger the number the fastest the boat.

I don't know about the price of the SF3600. Probably not much more than the one of the Arcona 340 but that boat is more intended to race than to cruise. Look at some things he have said about the boat, as not having a decent access to a cockpit locker or having a very small galley:

http://www.navark.se/wp-content/uplo...hyr_sf3600.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Thanks Marty. Almost all those pictures were posted but that PDF gives new information even if none in what regards the interior that seems to be the negative part of this boat, in what regards performance cruising. However I could not access the internet pages you have posted. They ask me to log in

I guess that you are refereeing to this:

http://www.navark.se/wp-content/uplo...hyr_sf3600.pdf

The new images:





The overall shape of the hull seems great to me for a 36ft boat but the only access to cockpit storage is very small. Even if the space is considerable, as I suppose, it would have a difficult access. Given the storage space it is certain that for cruising, or even offshore racing this is a one cabin only boat since the other cabin would be full of stuff (4 persons anyway). If so it is difficult to understand why one of the cabins has not a cockpit access, like for instance on the J 111.
Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-14-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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  #3578  
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Smile Re: Interesting Sailboats

[QUOTE Paulo ]Can you find and post the boat dimensions? I could not find them

Here is the data. The automatic translator did not manage it all but I made some guess for the missing translations.

Data - Luffe 3,6

LOA 11.00 m
LWL 10.30 m
Width 3.13 m
Depth 1.90 m
Mast Height 16.70 m
Ståhøyde 1.87 m - this should be standing height
Vækt 5300 kg - Displacement
Ballast 1960 kg
Storseil 37 sqm - Mainsail
Fok 33 sqm - Genoa
Even Striking 27 sqm - not sure what it is may be self tacking roller-furling jib?
Gennaker 98 sqm
Code1 57 sqm

Regards
Rumen

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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
[QUOTE Paulo ]Can you find and post the boat dimensions? I could not find them

Here is the data. The automatic translator did not manage it all but I made some guess for the missing translations.

Data - Luffe 3,6

LOA 11.00 m
LWL 10.30 m
Width 3.13 m
Depth 1.90 m
Mast Height 16.70 m
Ståhøyde 1.87 m - this should be standing height
Vækt 5300 kg - Displacement
Ballast 1960 kg
Storseil 37 sqm - Mainsail
Fok 33 sqm - Genoa
Even Striking 27 sqm - not sure what it is may be self tacking roller-furling jib?
Gennaker 98 sqm
Code1 57 sqm

Regards
Rumen

P.S. Trying to upgrade membership by placing enough posts.
Thanks,

So, Still a narrow boat (as in the shipyard tradition) but with a relatively broader transom and the beam more carried aft.

Comparing with the Luffe 37 dimensions:

LOA: 11.18 m LWL: 9.70 m
BOA: 2.75 m Draft: 1.70 m
Ballast: 1.65t Displacement: 3.70t
Sails:
Mainsail: 25.00 m² Genoa: 32.00 m²
Jib: 21.00 m² Spinnaker: 89.00 m²

We can see the boat is slightly smaller but as a considerable bigger LWL and that is also beamier (3.13m to 2.75m) has more draft, more ballast (1960 to 1650kg but is also a lot heavier? (5300kg to 3900kg).

Anyway a much more powerful boat, able to carry more sail upwind and downwind (upwind - 64 sqm to 46 sqm). This difference in sail area will be more than enough to compensate for the superior weight of the new boat. This boat would be considerably faster and very good upwind.

This is a boat for the ones that like to sail with heel. I had the pleasure to have a little test sail with the boat designer on the 40.04. It was something like 25K of wind and the boar immediately heeled and then stopped at 20/25º and remained there, solid as a rock. The boat had racing sails with no reefs and that seemed not to worry him Nice day sailing in a beautiful boat with a great sailor.

Cheers

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-14-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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  #3580  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Referring back to the charisma of Linjett yachts (if I remember well someone posted about the outdated hull shape, on the other side the LYS figure indicates
that it is a very fast boat and considering the price which is higher than average Scandinavian made boat, As well as the experience of the yard (may the oldest in Europe still existing), I want to come back to the issue of the significance of a qualified naval architect. Can Mat Gustavsson, owner and designer of Linjett yachts be considered such? I would expect your comments after the quote of part of an article published on the Feb issue of Sailing magazine. The article is named "Built with love" about a Swedish couple who purchased hull no.102 (last) of the discontinued Linjett 35 and even have participated in the final improvements:
"There is not a single drawing for any of the boats - not for the interior, nor for the hull or anything. Mat uses a plastic material to build a model. He starts by
cutting the view from above. He shapes the plastic into a sailboat and test it in his bathtub, adding weights and obviously finding the centre of gravity. Once complete the first yacht in the line is constructed based on the model. Then the boat is entered in the summer racing circuit in the Swedish archipelago near Stockholm to test it sailing. Afterward, the design is fine-tuned and improvements are incorporated in the line".
How does it sound? Maybe one has to ask Bob Perry who writes regularly for the same magazine.

Sorry I had to rewrite the passage from the article. Could not copy/paste it but I have not changed anything.
Regards
Rumen
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