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  #3851  
Old 04-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Excellent, thanks for that, PCP

I like the look of it, even if it is a rendering.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with the bit about handicap racing. Never quite got the point.
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  #3852  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by One View Post

I like the look of it, even if it is a rendering.
The moulds are ready!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...5598690&type=1

From Twitter: Materials arrived, first hull will be infused soon...

IRC rating will be around 1.155TCC
We will apply for a new rating with latest dimensions soon

Last edited by DiasDePlaya; 04-06-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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  #3853  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Van de Stadt Design

Not sure if this has been posted, but they look like interesting blue water cruisers. They can build aluminum hulls and retracting keels across a broad range of sizes.

Van de Stadt Design - Image 47

They also have what they call a "SwingRig" in which the mast rotates. Can't imagine that makes for a water tight deck. But they claim as a result, their main sails can keep up with rigs using spinnakers.

Last edited by opc11; 04-06-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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  #3854  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Van de Stadt Design

Not sure if this has been posted, but they look like interesting blue water cruisers. They can build aluminum hulls and retracting keels across a broad range of sizes.

Van de Stadt Design - Image 47

They also have what they call a "SwingRig" in which the mast rotates. Can't imagine that makes for a water tight deck. But they claim as a result, their main sails can keep up with rigs using spinnakers.
To tell you the truth I am not a big fan of Stadt design. I mean I was, regarding Van de stadt and his designs and his time (till 1978) but the days where his boats won the Fastnet race (1952) are long gone. He was a daring designer and ahead of his time. I don't think that can be said about Stadt design today.

I don't like particularly the design you mention (sorry about that):

http://stadtdesign.com/designs/custom_yachts/image_47/3





I like more their work on bigger yachts, the ones they call Stadships:







I like particularly this one.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-06-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

no need to apologize, paulo! ....it's not my boat! ;-)
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
The moulds are ready!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...5598690&type=1

From Twitter: Materials arrived, first hull will be infused soon...

IRC rating will be around 1.155TCC
We will apply for a new rating with latest dimensions soon
He, he, okay. I'm looking forward to see the real thing.
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Pilot (Dog) House / Deck Saloons etc - Vilm 115

The interesting thing about the CR 380DS is how difficult it is to get the aesthetics right on a hull of that size, even if the interior spaces work out ok.

I recall comments by Chuck Paine when he was doing his fast cruiser designs, saying the trick with raised-seating deck saloons is getting the visual bulk into the back half of the hull and integrating well with the cockpit/coaming profile - very hard to do under 48 ft he said - probably why Southerly put so much work into the design of curved deck mouldings for their smaller yachts.

This new design Vilm 115 caught my eye - deigned by Judel/Vrolijk - never heard of the yard and don't think this has been built yet, but they have a lot of models listed (no website in english). I've always liked JV's designs and they've done a reasonable job with a dog-house on a yacht of this size - a nice design for gentle weekend cruising when you're 70+

I like the big and well protected cockpit (sun and wind) - esp if you're going to have a soft dodger up full-time; also a huge galley and heads (like the HR372) but the compromise is a saloon pushed well forward with mast post through middle of the table (not ideal and a throw back to the IOR pin-tails when tiny mains and huge genoas meant rigs were set well aft). Fwd cabin also tight; aft cabin looks large but must have quite a bit of cockpit moulding intruding into that space.

Performance looks like it will be ok from the stats and hull drawings

LOA 11.09 m
LWL 9.76m
Beam 3.54 m
Draft 1.60 m
Displ 7,200 kg
Ballast 2,550 kg
Sail area 71 m˛

A bit light on ballast though @ 35% (vs XC 38 @ 43% and HR372 @ 39%) which coupled with shoal draft and dog house windage won't make this an upwind performer

They also have plans for same hull without dog-house (I see these designs being called pilot houses in Europe, but agree with U.S. terminology here - if you can't steer from it then its only shelter so a dog-house !)

Presumably a drop-down transom platform but not shown. Would be a bit nervous of a rudder that looks like it's at full keel draft ! I happily go to shallow waters but only if a spade rudder is at least a foot shorter than the keel !

Having gone to the trouble of plans from JV it's a shame its not being built by a better known yard - saw mention of EUR200k in the water. Moody would probably do ok producing the 2 versions of this yacht.

cheers










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Vilm Yachts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapwraia View Post
...
Having gone to the trouble of plans from JV it's a shame its not being built by a better known yard - saw mention of EUR200k in the water. Moody would probably do ok producing the 2 versions of this yacht.

...
Nice post. I agree with what you say except the above. I would rather put my trust om Vilm, that is an old familiar high quality company, than in Moody that has been bought by Hanse, that has a good quality but an industrial set up without the same quality for detail. Vilm shipyard has its origins on the XIX century.

Vilm is an old brand and I guess it is struggling for surviving. I have saw some of their boats and talk to the builder and I can only say good things. The problem is that this was a RDA company. When Germany unified itself the prices of RDA products raised sharply and the Vilm that was a good quality nice priced boat saw itself competing in price with the North European boats, that have a similar quality.

About one year ago I had posted about those new Vilm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Vilm goes modern, but not much: The German brand new models, the 115 and the 37 have not skeg rudders anymore and have a ballasted fin keel. Both boats share the same hull.

The boats look conservative but modern thanks to the Drawings of judel and vrolijk. Vilm are known to be well built and strong and I believe this two new models will open the Brand to a more vast number of sailors, provided they have the money for it because the Vilm are not cheap






The last well known boats with a good design but one that comes back from the last decades of the last century was the Vilm 101 and Vilm 117. The boats were well appreciated and the 116 (that is basically the 117) won 2002 contest for Best Production Cruiser Over $200,000 on Cruising World magazine.

Best Production Cruiser Over $200,000: Vilm 116 | Cruising World

Vilm 116 Sailboat Review | Cruising World

The 116 had been for many years their main boat but I really liked the more recent 101, a small swallow water cruiser intended for coastal and offshore work:











From then the company has made an erratic route with several boats made in very small number:

A 40ft, made in two versions, decksaloon and cruiser:



Yacht Charter Vilm 41 DS (2Cab) - Sailing Yacht in Rügen / Lauterbach - Germany

a nice Vilm 34:



http://www.agora-yachtcharter.com/tr...harter-vilm-34

But the problem seems that they cannot find their own way and a market for their boats. I guess that they should concentrate on the type of boat you posted and try to lower down production costs maintaining the quality. Making a lot of different boats in a small company does not help doing that.

I hope they find their way and manage to survive. They have a nice history behind, a tradition of quality and some great boats produced.

http://inter-yacht.com/Vilm/VilmRendezvous/

the new design is a nice one. I agree with you regarding the B/D ratio. I would maintain the ballast and would increase the draft to 2,00m. That would not give it a lot more stability as would solve the problem with the rudder at almost the same level as the keel. But this is a custom boat company and I am quite they would have no trouble in doing that.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-07-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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  #3859  
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Re: Pilot (Dog) House / Deck Saloons etc - Vilm 115

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapwraia View Post
This new design Vilm 115 caught my eye - deigned by Judel/Vrolijk - never heard of the yard and don't think this has been built yet, but they have a lot of models listed (no website in english). I've always liked JV's designs and they've done a reasonable job with a dog-house on a yacht of this size - a nice design for gentle weekend cruising when you're 70+

I like the big and well protected cockpit (sun and wind) - esp if you're going to have a soft dodger up full-time; also a huge galley and heads (like the HR372) but the compromise is a saloon pushed well forward with mast post through middle of the table (not ideal and a throw back to the IOR pin-tails when tiny mains and huge genoas meant rigs were set well aft). Fwd cabin also tight; aft cabin looks large but must have quite a bit of cockpit moulding intruding into that space.

Performance looks like it will be ok from the stats and hull drawings

LOA 11.09 m
LWL 9.76m
Beam 3.54 m
Draft 1.60 m
Displ 7,200 kg
Ballast 2,550 kg
Sail area 71 m˛

A bit light on ballast though @ 35% (vs XC 38 @ 43% and HR372 @ 39%) which coupled with shoal draft and dog house windage won't make this an upwind performer

They also have plans for same hull without dog-house (I see these designs being called pilot houses in Europe, but agree with U.S. terminology here - if you can't steer from it then its only shelter so a dog-house !)

Presumably a drop-down transom platform but not shown. Would be a bit nervous of a rudder that looks like it's at full keel draft ! I happily go to shallow waters but only if a spade rudder is at least a foot shorter than the keel !

Having gone to the trouble of plans from JV it's a shame its not being built by a better known yard - saw mention of EUR200k in the water. Moody would probably do ok producing the 2 versions of this yacht.

cheers



Bootsbau Ruegen has been in business since 1948, and their first Vilm was built in 1965. The 116 won Cruising World Boat of the year in 2002 in the category " best performance Cruiser over $200k". They beat out a Moody 38, Jeanneau SO 43 and Moorings (Dufour) 525. And they are still in business today building quality boats. It is propably a good thing, that Moody is not building it, I believe quality would suffer with Hanse oversight.
I agree, they succeeded building a 10 m yacht with pilot/doghouse that is still pleasant to the eyes, not an easy feat. I can only think of Sirius Yachts as another pretty example in the 10m range. Sadly, they haven't introduced a new/ larger model in a while.
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Bridge to Bridge race.

Never heard about this one but it seems just such a coll idea, kind off: if you think you sail fast just appear and we will see

I guess that t I missed it because I was on my cruising time

First to arrive were seven kite surfers then one wind surfer. The Hydroptere was there but started before time and did not finish? and the America's cup 45 where to show up but stayed at home. Shame , it would be nice to see what was their comparative performance.

This seems to be such a great idea for all that love speed sailing, no matter the boat or means that it is hard to understand why there is not more types of boats racing, just for the fun of it. I hope this race grows fast in number of participants, types of boats and media attention. It has all the ingredients to become a classic sail speed race...if only the Americans liked more sailing, I mean the general public. But I guess that a good movie and TV coverage of a race like this can contribute to that: Speed is always spectacular.

Ronstan Bridge to Bridge Race at St. Francis Yacht Club - Yachts and Yachting Online


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