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  #3911  
Old 04-12-2013
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Re: Maltese Falcon versus Meteor

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Are you attempting to argue that the benefits back then, when cotton were used for sailcloth, should somehow translate into good saildesign today? That because it was an advantage back then to have smaller squares of cloth, then that same thing would be beneficial today? Even if most on the Maltese Falcon is carbon fibre, it still a sorts of square rigger with the extra weight up on top, compared to the modern rig of Meteor, which has far less weight and hardware (carbon fibre and dyneema) up on top.

Why would you expect a square rigger, even made with modern materials to outpace everything out there, because "centuries ago, they made them for the trade winds"? (Yes, I'm paraphrasing a bit).

I say this, while I actually like that rig a lot. It's beautiful to me (the rig, that is), but I wouldn't expect it to be as good as a more modern rig, utilising the benefits of modern sail cloth.

No, you are missing the point. Before square rigs were a technological advantage, they made sailboats perform better, then with the advent of big downwind sails that advantage disappeared.

Today a square rig performs not as well as a modern rig, even a very modern one like the one on Falcon Maltese is no exception, so why use it? just because someone finds it beautiful? It don't make sense to me. It is like someone using a full keel because he finds full keels beautiful: Both things are anachronisms and have no place on a modern boat.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-12-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Fair enough. But I still think it's great to see someone trying to update an old design and see how it does with modern materials and a modern implementation. It astounds me, though, that you're so against the modern square rigger, but you juxtapose it with the Meteor. If that is not anachronistic, I don't know else I'd call it - even if it is faster than the Maltese Falcon in the videos posted.

With that said, I'm seriously reconsidering buying a ("racing") trimaran instead of the boat I had settled on. The one you guys linked me to in that other thread was really nice, although not being able to buy it from new is a bummer. I simply think it would be even more fun, even though it will be a bitch to find a berth for.
Edit:
I found it. It was in this thread, and it was you who posted about it - I'm rather smitten with it, the Krysalid 42:
Interesting Sailboats

Last edited by One; 04-12-2013 at 09:23 PM.
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Dorvale amd Krysalid 42

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...

With that said, I'm seriously reconsidering buying a ("racing") trimaran instead of the boat I had settled on. The one you guys linked me to in that other thread was really nice, although not being able to buy it from new is a bummer. I simply think it would be even more fun, even though it will be a bitch to find a berth for.
Edit:
I found it. It was in this thread, and it was you who posted about it - I'm rather smitten with it, the Krysalid 42:
Interesting Sailboats





I don't know if you have an idea of the costs of one of those new. That is a carbon boat. Some years back the announced price was 415 000 euros for the cruising version that I believe they never made. Probably the racing version, the one that is for sell, was a bit less expensive but not much.

Krysalid'42 trimaran sails for a racing sum of $600,000

If you are not a very rich guy it would make more sense to talk with the NA, buy that used almost new boat for the better price and put him in charge of transforming that on the cruising version. Of course if you want a mew one I am sure the molds are somewhere and the NA can certainly find someone reliable to build it ( in France lots of shipyards specialized in building racing boats).

The NA is Dorvale.

DORVAL Architecture Navale Krysalid 42

We talked here also about another of his designs, an interesting boat and concept, the Loft 40:


LoftBoats




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Another of those cruisers that pick the class 40 hull is the Loft 40 and this one is for me a lot more interesting than the Azuree. Daring and very innovating. Not a boat for everybody, but to a happy couple that likes to receive friends.

The aim of this boat is not maximum performance, but just having a fast cruiser boat that maximizes space concept, in the interior and on the outside. It is called loft because he uses space as continuum. The maneuverer space of the boat is all on the back. There is a covered space that interconnects with the interior, more precisely with the galley and a cabin that opens to the saloon.

This is a two person boat. A boat that can host a party or receive a considerable number of guests. It is a fun boat that with 6.5T and 90m2 of sail and a gennaker with 80m2 should be a pleasant and fast boat to sail. A boat to enjoy life.

Comments please!



























LoftBoats
Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Thanks,

Yes, it's a bit dearer from new than the keel boat I talked about in the other thread. I'm not "rich", but I do have a bit of money at present.

The keelboat we discussed in the other thread is made from foam-core epoxy (no vinylester or polyester), and they are one-offs. Compared to a new Krysalis 42 in racing trim, the Krysalis is €80-100K dearer. But with the carbon spars etc. the designer and I were discussing, we're talking a price increase of 15-25 percent, which would make the difference between the fin-keeler and the Krysalis much less. However, seeing that the Krysalis is not in production anymore, and seeing the prices of the one(s) for sale, it would actually save me quite a lot of money to buy the used one, and outfit it myself. I like spartan, though, so it wouldn't take much, nor would it add a lot of weight to the multihull. And, to boot, it would still be far more luxurious than "cockpit camping" on the old-school fin keeler.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Thanks,

Yes, it's a bit dearer from new than the keel boat I talked about in the other thread. I'm not "rich", but I do have a bit of money at present.

The keelboat we discussed in the other thread is made from foam-core epoxy (no vinylester or polyester), and they are one-offs. Compared to a new Krysalis 42 in racing trim, the Krysalis is Ä80-100K dearer. But with the carbon spars etc. the designer and I were discussing, we're talking a price increase of 15-25 percent, which would make the difference between the fin-keeler and the Krysalis much less. However, seeing that the Krysalis is not in production anymore, and seeing the prices of the one(s) for sale, it would actually save me quite a lot of money to buy the used one, and outfit it myself. I like spartan, though, so it wouldn't take much, nor would it add a lot of weight to the multihull. And, to boot, it would still be far more luxurious than "cockpit camping" on the old-school fin keeler.
Not to mention boat value. That trimaran completely revised and with a new interior would worth a lot more than a racing boat so you in fact would lose a lot less money when and if you sell the sailboat in the future.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Not to mention boat value. That trimaran completely revised and with a new interior would worth a lot more than a racing boat so you in fact would lose a lot less money when and if you sell the sailboat in the future.

Regards

Paulo
Hadn't thought of resale value at all. Every boat (or anything else) I buy is always "the one and final one". I'm an idiot when it comes to thinking of resale values of anything. It's weird, because at the same time I'm as far from a hoarder as you can get.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Do you want a multihull? Look at this novelty!

california love | Sailing Anarchy
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Clarc33

I don't know why I never talked about this one: It is so pretty ...and fast too. Speed with style on a boat that has a variable draft with a bulbed lifting keel: from 1.25m to 1.95m .

Lots of the ballast for the weight, type of keel and draft: 40% of B/D ratio on a very light boat (2.850kg) allows a relativelly narrow hull (2.54m) with a more than decent sail area (51/46 sqm). The light weight means an high tech construction with Vacuum-Infusion, Epoxy resins, bidirectional E-Glass use of carbonfibre fibre and light wooden elements.

a wolf in disguise

If something can be said against is that the boat has not a proper head, just a chemical one and the galley is really minimal. This makes it a weekend cruiser at most... but a boat that will let many astonished at club race and that certainly will put a big smile on the face of the one at the tiller. However I think the boat deserved a better interior one as well done and as beautiful as the rest of the boat: That would be perfection.















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Last edited by PCP; 04-13-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Re: Clarc33

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I don't know why I never talked about this one: It is so pretty ...and fast too. Speed with style on a boat that has a variable draft with a bulbed lifting keel: from 1.25m to 1.95m .

Lots of the ballast for the weight, type of keel and draft: 40% of B/D ratio on a very light boat (2.850kg) allows a relativelly narrow hull (2.54m) with a more than decent sail area (51/46 sqm). The light weight means an high tech construction with Vacuum-Infusion, Epoxy resins, bidirectional E-Glass use of carbonfibre fibre and light wooden elements.

a wolf in disguise

If something can be said against is that the boat has not a proper head, just a chemical one and the galley is really minimal. This makes it a weekend cruiser at most... but a boat that will let many astonished at club race and that certainly will put a big smile on the face of the one at the tiller. However I think the boat deserved a better interior one as well done and as beautiful as the rest of the boat: That would be perfection.

Nice - Looks more complete than some other recent retro daysailer/weekenders of similar size. I like the way the rudder being set well aft means they've kept the tiller substantially out of the cockpit. I also like the tapered coach roof profile, but those oval ports don't work for me being same size - esp the fwd one - to pull this off to best effect they should have the ports reducing in size with the taper. I presume they're using stock components, but visible details like that make all the difference in this segment which is getting quite competitive; and target buyers will be very particular about spec & detailing.
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