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  #391  
Old 11-16-2010
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Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409

Well, this one is for you Marty!

The Bavaria 40 looked very nice on the first drawings, but I have to say that the real thing is another story. The boat looks a bit fat and the interior is just plain ugly. Take a look:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...avaria_40_.swf

I thought that there was some confusion with the weight but it seems that the boat really weights 9T and that is a lot for a 40ft. I have read the test from the "Yacht " magazine and the performance is disappointing, even for a cruiser. I don't understand the guys from Bavaria. The boat may be a Farr design but seems slower than the previous model and it is not nicer.

On other hand I have said that the designs from the interior saloon of the new Jeanneau 409 seemed to me the best designed I had ever seen in a 40ft cruiser boat, but that I wanted to confirm that with real photos and a visit to the boat.

I have already saw the photos and they look as good as the drawings. I will be at the Paris boat show ( 3 weeks from now) to look at the real thing

Take a look at the interior (360ºpicture):

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...nneau_409_.swf
















I had said also that, from the photos, the boat looked a bit too "pretty" meaning too feminine, if you know what I mean

No, the boat is just beautiful. These movies give us a better idea:

Neustart mit der Sun Odyssey 409 - YACHT: YACHT tv

Sun Odyssey 409 – A special recipe for beauty! - Jeanneau Yard

Sun Odyssey 409

Sun Odyssey 409

I have said that probably the new 40 Bavaria was faster: No way. They announced a performance version with 93 Sqm of sail for 7.5T. This numbers on a Philip Brian design (First 45 and 50) can only mean that this is a really fast cruiser.

http://www.jeanneau.com/medias/CMS/b...entaire_GB.pdf

The boat has also a remarkable tankage for a 40ft: 530L of water and 200L of fuel.

The only thing I really don't like is what seems the impossibility of mounting two extra side winches to have the boom control near the wheel (German sheeting).

http://www.jeanneau.com/medias/CMS/b...0826142045.pdf

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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  #392  
Old 11-16-2010
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I like that new Juneau 'corporate' look. That is most certainly one modern production boat that I would happily own. The interior is a beauty. Love it.
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  #393  
Old 11-17-2010
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We went on the 409 at the annapolis show - the wife really liked the interior. Below are some pics:
Attached Thumbnails
Interesting Sailboats-jenneau-409-1.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-jenneau-409-2.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-jenneau-409-3.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-jenneau-409-5.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-jenneau-409-6.jpg  

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  #394  
Old 11-17-2010
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We have a new Bavaria 45 and a 32 here in town at the local dealer.. haven't been aboard but the outside appearance is not at all appealing.. blocky and ugly to my eye too, so I agree with you, Paulo. I wonder how much Farr had to do with the deck or did they simply provide hull lines.....

I'm too much of a traditionalist, I suppose, and I like my rounded moldings, and other things 'nautical'.. to me some of these new boats are simply too linear.. you'd be forgiven for thinking you're looking at a kitchen display in an Ikea catalogue. But I'll concede they probably go really well for the most part!
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Faster, I think you have understood what I mean, but let me make it more clear:

I am not saying that the Bavaria is a bad boat or that its quality is worst than the one from Jeanneau. As you know I have owned a Bavaria 36 for 7 years and I have only good things to say about it. No, I am talking only about boat Design and in what regards Design (that is an important part of any product) it seems to me that the Jeanneau 409 is a lot better than the Bavaria 40.

Of course, if someone prefers the interior from the Bavaria, if the Bavaria looks to those eyes a more beautiful boat and if that customer does not mind to have a slower, but slightly more stable boat (because it is heavier), than for him the Bavaria would be a better choice, since the quality of materials and workmanship is very similar.

I also don't understand why the Bavaria 36 looks a lot better than the Bavaria 40, especially in what concerns the interior. It makes no sense: it is a more expensive boat. Someone should fire that designer.

Look yourself to the two interiors and tell me if I am wrong:

Bavaria Yachtbau: 360° Pictures

Bavaria Yachtbau: 360° Pictures

Even in what regards outside looks, the 36 seems less fat than the 40 even if 7T is still a lot for a modern 36ft boat (the Jeanneau 36I weights 5.7T).

Getestet: Die neue Bavaria Cruiser 36 - YACHT: YACHT tv

That over weight is even more strange if we consider that the previous 40ft weighted less 0.5T and that my Bavaria 36 weighted 5.7T. I would have expected the Farr designed Bavaria to be lighter and faster than the ones designed by J&J design group, but I was wrong

Regards

Paulo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
...
I'm too much of a traditionalist, I suppose, and I like my rounded moldings, and other things 'nautical'.. to me some of these new boats are simply too linear.. you'd be forgiven for thinking you're looking at a kitchen display in an Ikea catalogue. But I'll concede they probably go really well for the most part!
Yes, I would have preferred a slightly less modern style (that has nothing to do with design quality, but with personal taste), but I think that the Jeanneau interior still looks pretty much like a boat interior, even if you would have preferred a slightly more classic style. Anyway it is a very good piece of interior Design.

But look at this interior:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50_s_.swf

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50-l_.swf

Why would someone want to make a boat interior look like a tiny apartment?

If they make it, it is because there are a lot of people that want that. Perhaps it's me that I am misjudging. Do you like that? Do your wives like that?

Perhaps that is what I am missing. It seems a good sales strategy: Design an interior that appeal to wive's tastes, after all the interior is in many cases their domain and they will not let you buy something they don't like.

Regards

Paulo
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  #397  
Old 11-17-2010
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Paulo,
Notice how the 409 and 439 share a common theme as distinct from say the 42i. I expect other new models in the series to have the same look. Thats what I meant by "corporate" look. Just as e.g all current release BMWs and Audi's share certain design traits.

As I said I do like the 409 but it does support my argument that European builders are catering for the weekender/summer holiday crowd and not the full time cruisers. This is probably stating the bleeding obvious of course.

You see this in the 409 where there is no option to go two cabin and increase the size of the galley. Instead the two cabin just gives you a bigger head and a bigger guest cabin. Reality is that is not a satisfactory galley for a 40'er liveaboard cruiser. I fully realise that these are production boats and that the lack of available customisation is reflected in the price. What is more I also acknowledge that the full time liveaboard market is pretty damn small.

These are observations more than criticisms.
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  #398  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I would have preferred a slightly less modern style (that has nothing to do with design quality, but with personal taste), but I think that the Jeanneau interior still looks pretty much like a boat interior, even if you would have preferred a slightly more classic style. Anyway it is a very good piece of interior Design.

But look at this interior:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50_s_.swf

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...ense_50-l_.swf

Why would someone want to make a boat interior look like a tiny apartment?

If they make it, it is because there are a lot of people that want that. Perhaps it's me that I am misjudging. Do you like that? Do your wives like that?

Perhaps that is what I am missing. It seems a good sales strategy: Design an interior that appeal to wive's tastes, after all the interior is in many cases their domain and they will not let you buy something they don't like.

Regards

Paulo
I don't have a major beef with the style of the Jeaneau interior, only parts of the layout. Quite frankly I could easily live with that interior design.

As for the Bavaria...no way. As you say, looks like a mini apartment and as for the ticky tacky ornaments and flower arrangements...blech. Proof positive that these things are never intended to spend a night at sea, even though they are probably more than capable of doing so. Day sail, lunch break at anchor, occasional night at anchor but generally marina or tied up stern to.

That said, if it is what their client base wants, then so be it. After all Paulo, even my most favourite of yachts , Bestevaer, offers some truly appalling interior designs. Upmarket appalling no doubt, but still apalling. While a properly configured Bestevaer/Bestewind would make a truly great world cruiser they also are acknowledging that most will spend little time at sea.
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Actually that small apartment is not a Bavaria, but the new Beneteau Sense 50....a bit better in what regards design, but I hate the style

I agree about the galley. It is not a bad or a small one, but it could be bigger on the two cabin boat. Anyway I prefer the two cabin boat. It has another sea berth and the saloon space will look a lot better. They have no photos of that version and that's a pity because I know that it will be a lot nicer.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-17-2010 at 06:11 PM.
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Paulo,

I was really meaning the Bavaria you referenced a few weeks back but I did get a bit confused there. The Beneteau interior while still a bit apartment like is not as Ikea as the Bavaria. I don't dislike it, if I am in a modern state of mind. I don't so much mind the look, as long as they round off the sharp corners. Its more the ornaments and set decoration that I find loathsome.

Me , I can look at an older boat and appreciate the timber fitout though some of the Taiwanese built things had a tendency to overdo the twiddly bits. Then again I can appreciate more modern design as well, I guess because that is what I work with Monday - Friday.

rgds

Andrew
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