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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#1,764 · (Edited)
Thanks Paulo,
you come up with some amazing videos, all of which keep the racer within stoked.

Please keep finding them, very much appreciated. Your posts also express your experience in getting out and doing it, rather than just talking about it.

Cheers

DC

TDW,

Thanks to you also for same - [cant supplicate a mod too much]
I'll keep an eye on the Salona.
regards

Actuall, if it were not for the spectators hanging around the Syd- Hob, I'd consider going in the cruising div. - how about a private cruisers race b/w a few of us - will take a lot of plotting/planning but how about a trip to Lord Howe or the Capricorn Group - Bris-Glad in April??
 
#1,765 · (Edited)
Supplicate baby supplicate .... :p:p

I've looked longingly at the Cruising Div but in reality who wants to be stuck with the weather, while getting out of the harbour for the slow pokes must be horrid.

Otoh, we aim to be in Broken Bay post New Year and then if the weather gods smile head south, I'd like to think to Eden but one step at a time. Jervis, Batemans, Eden. Wild Oats may do Syd-Hob in two days but we'll be happy with Syd - Eden in two weeks.

Ref Lord Howe, how about we meet there ? Have to plan it fairly carefully cos out of Sydney into a Nor Easter would be a bit miserable but pick the tail end of the right southerly up the coast to Port Macquarie or Coffs then its a reach to LH rather than hard on the wind. For you though it would be plain sailing all the way unless you get snotted by a Tasman blow.

Nice thought. I need to do a decent offshore passage. LH is the obvious choice.

Does this all mean you are getting back on the water soon ?

Cheers

Andrew
 
#1,766 · (Edited)
Celebrating the Jeanneau 379 award as boat of the year for Cruising World Magazine:D, a new video, a nice one that shows that the 379 is a gorgeous sailboat and a fast one. The most beautiful boat among the 36/37ft cruisers (not considering performance cruisers):



This boat looks better than the Bavaria 36 the Hanse 385 and better than the Dufour 375 even if all of them are good looking boats, but in what regards the interior, well I find that it is not as good as the rest of the boat and I think it is a pity, no bad though, but just look at the Dufour 375 and that big galley:

Virtual Yacht Showing



And also a look at the Hanse 385:



And the Bavaria 36 that in my opinion is the nicest interior of all Bavaria cruising series, a lot better now that they have changed the wood color.





 
#1,769 · (Edited)
Back to the Paris boat show, I was very interested in seeing the new Grand Soleil 39, just to see if the boat does look as good as in the movies:D.

Yes, even better it is just a gorgeous boat and I know it is the kind of boat I like, I mean for solo sailing and to the type of sail I do and intend to do.

It is on the super quality of the finish and in all details that this boat really impresses. After having seen it, I even like that retro dish storage in the galley and contrary to what I was afraid those white cabinets look good. They have a silky white finish that exudes quality.

The table in the cockpit is the best I have ever saw (very little space lost) and the port hulls are just magnificent, specially if we consider that we are talking about a performance boat. They are under the cabinets, are double and long and at a place that match the height of the eyes when we are seated and they permit really an outside view.

This boat shows that it is possible to have a luxurious boat with a great interior and at the same time a performance boat. Really outstanding. Of course a boat like this cannot be cheap (it has a carbon structure to distribute all the loads) but even with that price I believe it is going to be a success.

It seems that the Bavaria ownership had only taken advantages and that the quality has not lowered, quite the contrary.

I could only find one thing that I really did not like: The stairs are to steep! But that is not a particularity of only this boat, the Xp 38 and surprisingly the Xp 44 have it also as many other boats. Anyway it is an important detail for me and I am happy that the ones on the Salona 38 are a lot better. That is not important if you have both hands free, but if you are holding something and coming down, that can be a nasty problem.

Grand Soleil 39 : le charme intégré

 
#1,771 · (Edited)
Back to the Paris boat show and to sexy boats, well the Grand Soleil 39 can pretend that title, but the little A27 is even sexier.:D Good what a beautiful boat, one capable of taken rationality out of you for sheer desire and sail pleasure, I mean if you are the kind of guy that prefer sailing to living in comfort;)





This is a racer and a weekender but what a boat....and with the possibility of having a solo version with all controls at hand (look in the movie at that strange box with all controls there).





The Archambault, the 31 and the 35 are favorite boats on the French Transat for amateurs, the Transquadra and they have learned with solo sailors all the tricks that were needed to solo sail a performance boat and have incorporated all in this boat.

This boat has also a version with two rudders and a lifting keel that will make it a very good all-round daysailer.

http://www.diamond-yachts.de/deliver.php?id=128

http://www.diamond-yachts.de/deliver.php?id=152

The boat I saw in Paris had not yet an interior (they had not time to finish the boat) but if it is a functional as on their other boats, it would be not only a great racer but a very fun weekender, a boat that will reward its owner with tons of sailing pleasure, I am sure;)

Don't miss the movie:

Take a look at the boat that is next to it. Its a Surprise, the boat that 30 years back was the first big success for Archambault. Both boats are about the same length and had the same program: racing and week-end cruising and the surprise was a very fast boat 30 years ago. The comparison shows the big evolution in design and particularly in hull design on the last 30 years.

A 27 : digne successeur du Surprise

...
 
#1,772 · (Edited)
I had already talked and posted movies about the Farlie 55, a very exclusive modern classic, I mean a truly classical boat with a more modern hull and a bulbed keel, a beautiful thing that make me fell like a peasant should feel near a beautiful princess:D

What a beautiful and untouchable sailboat except for that guy from Yachting world that pretending to make a test sail got a free ride with the beauty queen:D. Well, I would have liked to be in its place: What a lovely boat;)

 
#1,775 ·
Ok, we cannot have always good looking boats:D

Well, this one it is a bit of a deception, at least in what regards the outside looks. It just have lost that adventurer look. Now it seems a cruiser like any other and not even a particularly nice one. The new Allures 39.9 the new aluminum French center boarder that replaces the Allures 40:



The interior is nice, open and with lots of light, a lot better than the old one:



The boat was presented at the Paris boat show.
 
#1,774 ·
After a boat that almost nobody can have, a boat that anybody can have:D

The Elan 210 (that has several distributors in America) was also at the Paris boat show. The boat had been presented in January this year in Dusseldorf and since then a lot of boats have been sold and the boat has raised a lot of interest everywhere.

Voile and Voiliers made the best presentation of the boat I ever saw, a realy nice movie that shows about everything almost as if you were on the boat:

Movie

Elan 210 : comme un grand !

And the guys from Giornaledellavela have sailed it fast. Pity that I never saw images of this boat going with geenaker downwind. It should go really fast;)

 
#1,776 ·
If you Guys have not yet noticed it well deserve to pay attention to the attempt on the new World Record Navigation. They have 8 hours over Cammas, the one that owns the record but they are taking incredible risks running near 60Âş degrees South (58Âş), slalom Icebergs at 30/40K speed and Jumping on 33ft waves.

I am not exaggerating, they have beaten the speed record of the boat at 48K and the guy said the next second they were airborne over a 33ft wave:eek:

They have huge winds and big seas ahead (30h) and they talk about running without sail, only the mast!!!!! Its main problem is slow down the boat if they needed too. With 40K winds and over even only with the mast they will be doing over 20K and that can be too much for really heavy seas, not what you and I call heavy seas (on those they go over 30K) but on really bad seas, the ones where most sailors are considering a Mayday.

That is an incredible story that deserves to be followed by all that loves sail. They are out there, alot South of New Zealand sprinting to the more isolated place on earth, the big Southern Ocean on the way to the horn and they would be in deep trouble if they break the boat. Help would take a long way to arrive, maybe too long.

You can follow here:

Trophée Jules Verne 2011 - Cartographie et géolocalisation

Retrouvez toute l'actualité de l'univers Voile de Banque Populaire

 
#1,777 · (Edited)
Back to the Paris boat show and to one of the surprises, the XP 38. Yes I love the boat and I have said that already here but the interior on the photos and movies I had saw looked small and not very well designed. Well, it is not as big or as warm as the one from the Salona 38 but it is nice, very well done and cozy. Much more suitable for cruising than what I thought.



Pity that the XP 38 has only one version with 3 cabins because that is what make the saloon smaller than what it could have been, I mean the position of the head.

The head is small but will not be a problem unless you are really big. If you are you would have leg problems while seating at the toilet. The head it is also on the small side on the Salona 38 thee cabin, with more space for legs but less space for shower but it is much bigger on the Salona 2 cabin version and if you use the third cabin for storage, it makes a lot of sense to have a bigger head.

Another negative point is the stairs, really inclined, like the Grand Soleil 39 and a lot worse than on the Salona 38.

A very nice boat anyway, better for cruising than what I thought and a dam good and fast sailboat with a superior stability. A true bluewater boat.

Take a look at the presentation at the Paris boat show by "Voile and Voiliers"

Movie:

XP 38 : la performance par la puissance

Movie:

XP-38: Schnörkellos schnell segeln - YACHT-TV*|*YACHT.DE

And another surprise, the Xp 44 interior, that on the photos looked a lot better than the one from Xp 38 it is not. It is just a slightly bigger Xp 38, less than what the size difference would let to suppose and suprinsingly its stair is as inclined as the one from the Xp 38.

The First 45, The Salona 44 or the Elan 45 has a lot more to offer in what regards interior space and comfort even if the interior from the X is, as always, very well finished and with good quality everywhere. Of course in what regards pure performance I believe that the Xp 44 would be a bit faster but nothing that will really matter in what regards performance cruising.

Movie:

Performance-Cruiser: RĂĽckbesinnung auf den Sport - YACHT-TV*|*YACHT.DE



 
#1,778 ·
Paulo,

I'll have one of those Elan 210 for my birthday please. :) What a fabulous thing for daysailing and a bit of club racing. Fabulous. We have a Beneteau of about the same size in our mooring field, I feel the same way about that.

Allures 399 .... looks good. I'd have one of those in a shot but you would have to design a pretty impressive dodger. She'd be very wet with the wheels so far aft. I also look at the main sheet to boom position. Mid boom is one thing but man that is a long way forward, though perhaps its just the image.

As for Banque Populaire V I am in two minds. Part of me freaks out at the idea of ever crazier atempts on these records while I acknowledge that some of us will always strive to achieve bigger and better no matter the risk. At least one must say that BPV looks astonishingly well prepared in contrast to the likes of the failed attempt a few years back by Tony Bullimore which had disaster written all over it from start to ignominous finish.
 
#1,780 · (Edited)
Paulo,

I'll have one of those Elan 210 for my birthday please. :) What a fabulous thing for daysailing and a bit of club racing. Fabulous. We have a Beneteau of about the same size in our mooring field, I feel the same way about that.

Allures 399 .... looks good. I'd have one of those in a shot but you would have to design a pretty impressive dodger. She'd be very wet with the wheels so far aft. I also look at the main sheet to boom position. Mid boom is one thing but man that is a long way forward, though perhaps its just the image.

As for Banque Populaire V I am in two minds. Part of me freaks out at the idea of ever crazier atempts on these records while I acknowledge that some of us will always strive to achieve bigger and better no matter the risk. At least one must say that BPV looks astonishingly well prepared in contrast to the likes of the failed attempt a few years back by Tony Bullimore which had disaster written all over it from start to ignominous finish.
Well, I will give you one of those on your birthday if you give me a A27 in mine:D

Regarding the Allures 39.9 I will prefer to say nothing without seeing the boat. I liked the old Allures 40 and this one don't seem nicer to me, except on the interior. I can be wrong, bit this is not a revolutionary boat as was the Allures 44 in its time. The innovation regarding the OVNI was that while the OVNI as an all aluminum boat, the Allures has an aluminum hull but all the rest is cored fiberglass and that make it not only lighter but also with a lower CG, giving them a better stability curve, specially in what concerns reserve stability and AVS.

some Allures from the "old" line, including the 40



And the new Allures 45, a very beautiful boat





Allures have being growing at a fantastic rhythm, 100% each year and some of its success is due to guys that cruise on remote places with them:



Regarding Banque Populaire, they only seem crazy:D. As in any serious racing there are always some risk evolved but his skipper is one of the more experienced sailors on the world. He knows very well what he is doing and all the crew as a huge respect for him:

LoĂŻck Peyron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,782 · (Edited)
Still the boats on the Paris boat show: I left almost to the end the one I find more sexy. Areal pleasure to the eyes. Believe me none of the photos or movies I will post will give you an idea how beautiful this boat is: The Black Pepper Code 0

It is a very subtle melange of classic lines with ultra modern lines. On what matters to sailing is all modern, all in carbon, big draft, swinging bulbed keel, narrow, a big B/D ratio and a very low weight: 1950kg for a 10m boat:eek:











LOA : 9,95 m
LWL : 9,30 m
Beam : 2,70 m
Mast heigh : 13,70 m
Weight : 1 950 kg
Ballast : 800 kg
Draft : 0,70 m / 2,20 m
Mainsail : 32 m²
Jib : 18 m²
Code 0 on a bowsprit : 40 m²
Asymmetric spy on a bowsprit : 75 m²

At the Paris boat show:





First sailing appearance at the "VOILES DE SAINT TROPEZ"

Comments from the crew: We were surprised and surprised many boats:D. We did not know that this little boat could do 17K.





Is this not a cracking little boat? If I didn't like so much to cruise and I just sailed around my corner I would want one of these. They can even put you a real head on the boat if you want too.

No, don't ask me about the price. You should know that really beautiful things are priceless :D But if you really want to know I guess that this ine would cost a bit less than the Salona 38....but not much.

...
 
#1,784 · (Edited)
The J 105 is such a great boat that the one to replace it would have to be a really great boat. Hardd job;)

Look at this one:



With 23K a 28 k wind: Boat speed 12 a 16 kn. max. 17.3 kn:D

Well it seems they have done it, I mean a better boat. In Paris I had a look at the J 111: Impressive. It looks a bit better everywhere: A more modern hull design, a very nice looking boat with a great cockpit set up and a better interior.

The interior of the J 111 is miles away from the one from the Xp38 and points decidedly for racing but you could cruise one in a spartan way. Not much different from a Pogo 10.50 even if the Pogo is pointing decidedly to cruising.

Comparing with a Pogo 10.50 interior the Pogo has more storage, a better galley with a bigger fridge,the head in a better place and has a bigger interior.

No doubt that the Pogo 10.50 has a better interior, much more adapted to cruising but the J111 has a much better interior comparing with the j 105. Pity that they had maintained the head in that place, I mean inside the front cabin, like on the J 105. I don't understand why. The Pogo solution, that is common to many fast racers looks a lot better: Instead of having two cabins on the stern, it has only a bigger one and on the other side a head, communicating with the storage space.

But in what regarding sailing the opinions of all that had sailed it and their enthusiasm about the boat does not leave any doubt: That's a great sailingboat and siting on the cockpit, even on a boat show, you really dream to get it on the water and sail away;)





 
#1,785 · (Edited)
Some of you were complaining on other thread that there are no inexpensive new little cruisers on the market and that all the major brands were doing only big boats. That's true in what regards to almost all with the exception of Elan.

The big money is on big boats and all are pointing to it. But on Europe we have lots of new interesting and very inexpensive boats coming in the market, not from big boat companies but from small firms that are growing fast, mostly from Poland were the French and German big mass producers have been building a substantial part of their boats. They have learned the know how and and are starting producing their own boats. Well, it's good not to forget that Delphia is a Polish firm and they have been producing good boats for decades.

All this talk:D to present you another inexpensive Polish boat, the Mariner 20:













I like it. It seems very well designed it comes with a very basic equipment that will probably will give it a very low price and that I am sure can be upgraded, but the essentials are there: A nice hull with a nice rig and a good looking interior. The boat seems particularly interesting in its fixed bulb that has a bulbed ballast of 290kg (with more 100kg of inside ballast)at 1.42 draft. That will make it probably a relatively stiff boat considering that weights only 1050 kg and has a considerable beam (2.45m).



If you are really interested you can read the teat on the German Magazine "Yacht" and in some time you can download the test (2€).

The designer is the Polish Wojciech Spisak that was a huge experience in building small cruisers:

Konstrukcje Wojciecha Spisaka

I guess that now that the Euro is going down regarding to the dollar it would probably be good business to import this boat considering that they have a good looking and modern 24ft with a full head:



and are developing a big sister that it would probably be even more interesting, a very nice looking 31ft.

All these boats look good and don't resemble to those other fat little boats that come also from Polland. Have a look at the designs for the 31ft:









They say about the 31ft boat:

MARINER 31
two varieties of comfort

Our flagship model, depending on equipment and furnishing, is either a big, comfortable inland sailboat or a typical sea yacht. The inland version is equipped with a centerboard and an internal bottom balast, a tiller and an engine fixed on transom. Of course on request we can change the tiller to a steering wheel and fix a Diesel sterndrive. The next step can be changing the centerboard and the balast to a keel which transforms the boat into a sea yacht.


...
 
#1,786 ·
On these winter days I like to see good sailing movies. It is not like sailing, not even close but makes me dream about it and this movie is pretty good:

The sailing season of a racing Swedish team: Blur

First images (and great photos) on a J 109, the last ones on a J111 that is going to be probably their next boat. Enjoy (see it in 720HD):

 
#1,787 · (Edited)
Since we are talking about Polish small cruising boat, there is another coming and this one imported to US, the Delphia 31. from the very first images and designs it seems to be a very nice boat, designed by Andrzej Skrzat.

The version with deep keel will be certified by RCD as A category (offshore boat) and that means that for such a small boat, that it has to be well designed.

The boat will be offered with a deep keel and a draft of 1.85 and a swing keel with a variable draft, from 0.45 to 1.65. The Swinging keel does not seem to have a great impact on the interior.

Another interesting characteristic, common to some Delphia is the possibility of an optional mast lowering kit.

The Delphia is normally offered at a very good price for its quality.















They say about the boat:

The new Delphia 31 is designed to be a well-mannered craft, ideal for families seeking adventure on the water. From stem to stern, it is built to be functional, solid and very reliable in harsh weather conditions.

Even during long voyages, the D31 guarantees its occupants a sense of high comfort and safety. The self-draining cockpit with two lockers, the specifically designed anti-slip surface on the cockpit floor, the self-tailing winch and roller furling jib are just a few of the wealth of features to ensure the ultimate sailing experience that a craft in its class may offer.

Inside, the D31 is a perfect combination of space and ergonomics. The generously sized cockpit boasts teak laid seats and a bathing platform offering easy access to the water. The all-new interior with sumptuous sofas offers sleeping accommodation for up to six adults while panoramic windows flood the cabin with light.

Apart from the exquisite mahogany finish, standard features include a cooker, fridge, shower room and a 150-litre fresh water tank. Below decks there is a 100-litre diesel tank to fuel the 18-horsepower Volvo Penta engine.

The D31 is available with a cast iron keel, recommended for blue water sailing or a swing-keel available on request. Optional extras also include a furling mainsail and a mast lowering kit.


Technical data

Length: 9.78 m
Beam: 3.40 m
Total draft: 1.85 m
Weight: 6130 kg
Ballast: 1650 kg
Mainsail: 23.90m2
Gennaker: 90m2
Engine: 30 HP
Fuel tank: 120 l
Water tank: 210 l
Category: A/ 6 pers.
Designer: Andrzej Skrzat

Let me make a comment about this: "ideal for families seeking adventure on the water. From stem to stern, it is built to be functional, solid and very reliable in harsh weather conditions"

This boat has an unusually high weight and ballast for a 31 ft. If well designed, and Andrzej Skrzat is a good and very experienced designer, that weight means a very strong boat and that ballast on the end of a deep bulbed keel (with that weight) will mean an unusual high righting moment curve for a 31ft. This is probably going to be a very seaworthy boat for its size.

....
 
#1,788 ·
I found out a information that I was looking for some time now: a great explanation about the different types or A sails (geenakers on furlers), the angles and winds they are appropriated too. I have asked in some small lofts but the explanations were always confusing and contradictory.



These are the sails that are used by solo sailors. I had a A0 I knew the angles and the wind speed that it could take (not much) and I wanted a good overall sail capable of sailing with more wind and going more downwind. Well, know I know, it is a A2;).

I hope this can be useful to some.

The loft is OneSail, a Slovenian good loft that is growing fast and makes some great performance sails at a very good price. I knew about them because Salona uses their sails. I have tried their top of the range sail for cruisers and I liked it very much, the Vektor Dyneema series.

OneSails Sailmakers - The Next Generation of Sails - Home Page

OneSails Sailmakers - The Next Generation of Sails
 
#1,789 ·
Announcing SW's 2012 BOTY Winners | Sailing World

Some more garbage from the local SBOTY rags, ie Sailing World. I can not argue with 3 of the 4, but that freaking C&C 121 with a new deck plan.....as a T4000.......egads......anyway, back to house work. Have my one of two weekends off tween now and mid feb, then one off until late march as the winters of snow ski instruction on weekends have now hit! 33 season thank you very much of this!

Marty
 
#1,790 · (Edited)
Announcing SW's 2012 BOTY Winners | Sailing World

Some more garbage from the local SBOTY rags, ie Sailing World. ... freaking C&C 121 with a new deck plan.....as a T4000.......egads...

Marty
Very funny a Tartan 4000 being chosen as PERFORMANCE cruiser of the Year:D:D

It is funny because a Jeanneau 409 THAT IS NOT A PERFORMANCE CRUISER would easily smoke the Tartan 4000, I mean in its standard version. In its performance version (that does not make it a performance cruiser, only a fast cruiser) the Jeanneau would turn circles around the PERFORMANCE Tartan 400:D.

Some ratios between the two boats:

SA/D (the bigger the faster) - Tartan 4000 - 19.6....... Jeanneau 409 - 20.79 or 24.79.

D/L ratio(the smaller the faster) - Tartan 4000 - 181.5.......Jeanneau 409 - 120.8

And it is not only the Jeanneau 409, if I posted the numbers from the Dufour 405 (another cruiser) they would be very similar to the ones from Jeanneau. I guess that even the new Benetau Oceanis 41 is faster than the Tartan.

Only in what regards B/D the Tartan 400 has a slightly higher ratio, 0.326 to 0,303 but the Tartan keel is much wider and have less proportion of the ballast on the bulb.

Note that I am not saying that the Tartan 4000 is a bad boat neither I am saying that it is better or worse than the Jeanneau, only saying IT IS NOT A PERFORMANCE CRUISER.

If that boat is a performance cruiser what do you call to real performance cruisers like the Salona 41, The XP 38 or the Grand Soleil 39?

The Tartan 4000 is a luxury cruiser and should be compared with boats like the XC 42, the Halberg Rassy 372 (that was on the contest), boats that cost aproximatedly the same price and that are not maximized to performance while cruisers.
 
#1,791 · (Edited)
Thanks Paolo

Hi Paulo,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the education. I was raised in the Newport, RI area and am now land locked in the desert dreaming of sailing into the sunset. I've found this thread incredibly addictive and recently finished reading all of it. I NEED MORE! :)

I was wondering if you'd be interested in starting a separate thread about YOUR new boat and specifically the customizations you requested. I think your input, thoughts, musings and specifications would be incredibly helpful to those of us who don't have the cruising experience sufficient to know what we do or don't like (YET :) ).

..anyway, just a suggestion.

To all the others who have contributed so much, thanks to you too!

Regards,
 
#1,792 ·
Hi Paulo,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the education. I was raised in the Newport, RI area and am now land locked in the desert dreaming of sailing into the sunset. I've found this thread incredibly addictive and recently finished reading all of it. I NEED MORE! :)

I was wondering if you'd be interested in starting a separate thread about YOUR new boat and specifically the customizations you requested. I think your input, thoughts, musings and specifications would be incredibly helpful to those of us who don't have the cruising experience sufficient to know what we do or don't like (YET :) ).

..anyway, just a suggestion.

To all the others who have contributed so much, thanks to you too!

Regards,
Welcome to the thread, and glad to know that you have find it useful:)

But Opc, my boat is my personal choice in what regards my needs according with my budget. May not be yours and yours can be different from another sailor. Boats are always compromises and there is no right boat for everybody.

On this thread we have many different types of boats even if we consider only cruising boats. There is no right or wrong, most of them are great boats, and to the right sailor many would be the perfect boat...I mean for each different sailor:D

I don't think that makes any sense to treat my choice differently than the one that make Eric or Anders. They are all perfect boats for each of us;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,794 · (Edited)
So this strange spider works with foils. We all no Moth sailboats that have adopted foils, but the boat was not conceived initially as a foiler and I remember that 6 years ago sailors still considered that has a freak thing, a lonely guy and an acrobat that was doing crazy things in a boat.

Not anymore pretty much all Moth now use foils and thy race the boats in that configuration and they have gone farther and joined a wing to the concept:



But of course, you cannot take a pas sager on that thing and even to sail it you have not only to be a good sailor but an athlete and even so that demands a lot of training before be able to fly the thing properly. We can see here the body movement ant the delicate balance that is needed:





However in what regards things that can in the future be applied to cruising or even to pleasure sailing, I mean without the need for you to be a top racing sailor,the application of foils to multihulls seems a lot more promising. We all now the Hydroptere, the French trimaran that has the world record sailing speed and that can fly even with the sea not properly flat:D





But there are other less known interesting experiences some of them developed by talented young designers, like this very interesting one one:




Even big companies like Hobbie cat are developing the concept and this is a very interesting sail machine:



Regarding this concept that seems to work very well I have only one doubt. How the heel they reef the sails if the wind is suddenly too much?

Anyway these concepts are a lot more interesting in what concerns pleasure sailing not only because they are much easier to sail and can even carry passengers as also when the boat "falls" and start sailing as a regular boat, you don't crash like in a Moth:D:

 
#1,795 · (Edited)
Well, and to the ones, like me, that are dreaming with summer cruises nothing better than a good cruising movie like this one:



The boat is a great bluewater boat, the Sabre 456, still on the line of Sabre yachts. The boat is basically the old 452 (1998) with some modifications. The 452 is a Jim Taylor design and he says about the boat:

The S-452 was marketed as a 'blue water' cruiser, and ample storage capacity and cruising amenities were a high priority.

Here you have a BWS review:

BLUE WATER SAILING

It is still a great (and expensive) sailboat but the hull and keel design shows clearly its age and it is a pity because that is a nice looking boat with a very good and beautifull classic interior (please, can someone take away those ugly rugs?:rolleyes:) :













 
#1,796 · (Edited)
Six or seven years ago , in another forum, on a thread about tendencies in design regarding future hull shapes of cruising boats, I said that I believed that cruising boats were gonna be more beamy and with the beam carried aft. I was so flamed that i give up to post on that forum but I was pretty sure that I was right. Now the biggest mass production boat builder has all its cruising series (Sense and Oceanis) designed that way.

The question is why? Well today's cruising boats and even more in the future are solo sailed or sailed by a couple and most of the time the help the wife gives is very limited. Given this picture it seemed obvious to me that the hull shape more indicated for short crew sailing was the shape developed for solo racing: beamy boats with the beam carried aft.

What are the advantages: Boats with a superior stability given by its huge form stability and boats that can be designed to have a good performance without heeling much and are incredible stable an easy in downwind sailing that it is much of the sailing cruisers do (upwind most just turn the engine on). The performance downwind is also better in what regards performance. They provide also for more interior space and more space on the cockpit.

The disadvantages are: More wet surface (they need more sail area to compensate, sail that they can carry because they have more stability), less pointing ability and worse performance upwind, specially with waves (more wave drag), more slamming upwind in bad weather.

Comparing advantages and disadvantages it is (and was) obvious to me that for the big majority of cruisers the advantages were much bigger than the disadvantages and that stability, sailing at good speed with a small angle of heel, interior and cockpit space are probably the things that have more importance for most cruisers.

So, Benetau that always had his boats designed by the most advanced NA (that design race boats and cruising boats) have understood this quickly and have been pointing in this direction from some years now.

One of the best boats in the Oceanis line and one that has been there more years without being replaced (because it was advanced for its time and continues to sell well) is the Oceanis 37 that was this characteristics.

Well, the new Oceanis 41 is designed exactly by the same NAs, Finot/Conq and as a kind or reward by the excellent design and market success of the 37, Benetau has done something very rare: This time they did not give them any directions regarding the boat they wanted. Just the best they can do regarding a 40ft cruising boat that would appeal to the majority of the market.

The result was the 41 (and the 45 that was also designed by them).

When I saw the first drawings I didn't like very much the shape of the boat, the arch and specially the interior that looked unappealing and regarding sailing, after having read the tests sails made to the Sense Series I was not very convinced. Not that the Sense sail badly, but for what the testers said it was a kind of sparkles performance. Yes the sailed well, but did not point high and the sailing feeling were kind of indifferent, meaning nobody is going to buy a Sense by its sailing performance or the pleasure it gives at the wheel. at least this was the feeling I got from what they have said.

The funny thing is that they have said exactly that on the boat test, I mean they were not expecting much and they have said that they where surprised by the boat. The boat was tested by Voile and Voiliers and by Voile magazine and on both tests they were convinced and think this is going to be a great sailboat and a big market success. The best test was the one from Voile magazine, a 100Nm test and they measured these speeds:

Close to the wind with 6K wind - 4.9K speed....with 7.5K wind - 6.6K speed

with 18/20K wind at 140Âş - 9.5K speed.

These is a very good performance for a cruiser and show all the expertise of Finot/Conq designing this kind of hulls. They have a huge experience in designing solo racing solo boats: Minis, Class 40 and Open60.

Voile and Voiliers on their boat test also commented on how well the boat sailed and particularly in what regards the negative characteristics of this kind of hull that were non apparent in sailing.

On both test they said that the sensation at the wheel was good and particularly on the one where they sailed 100Nm, they said that they had fun at the wheel.

They had made only a really negative remark in what regards the dificulty to put all the sail in the lazy bag and zipe it. It seems that the boom is very high. That is a problem for the ones that would not chose in mast furling. Benetau had said to them that on the next boats to come the boom was going to be lowered 20 cms to make easier to work on the mainsail.















I saw the boat on the Paris boat show and I was surprised. The boat looks a lot better than what the bad designs that I had saw make me believe and the interior is also a lot better. I guess that those photos with a dark interior don't help in what regards to feel the space. However I still think it is rather dumb from Benetau to insist in showing the boat in dark mahogany when they have other options in ligther wood that makes the boat look a lot better.

The guys from Voile and Voiliers criticized heavily the position of the mast on the boat interior (not the mast but the compression post). I don't think that way. Like on the Oceanis 37 the mast is more aft than what is usual for giving the boat a perfect balance between the front sail and the main and I find that it gives a very good holding point and is integrated on the interior decoration. Like the one on the 37 it is mirrored all around and that helps to its integration.

The boat has the less inclined steps, from the cockpit to the interior, that I ever saw in a sailboat, an incredibly good access.

The galley is huge for a 40ft, the size of the 2 fridge are remarkable (130L and 85L) and the saloon is nice and cozy with a good outside view. For charter I would say that the saloon table is small, but on a 40ft most of the time there are not more than 4 or 5 and for that number it is fine.

The head is good with a big separated shower and even if the 2 head version is chosen, the one on the front cabin is not small because the front cabin is really big. On this boat you don't need the 2 cabin version because the galley is already big enough and there is enough storage space on the outside. Quite rare on a 40ft boat, where on most boats I would chose a 2 cabin boat to have a bigger head or/and a bigger galley. No need for that on this boat and I bet that the 2 cabin version will not sell.

But the best part of this boat is the cockpit that seems to belong to a 45ft boat. It is HUGE and the extension that gives the swimming platform is incredible. A private beach:D

The cockpit table is huge (I guess they have considered that while cruising most cruisers are going to use this one) but because the cockpit is so large does not clutter the space and serve as an adequate support for the feet while sailing.

The quality of the interior is the one that we all know from Beneteau, perhaps a bit worse than Jeanneau or Dufour, but globally good for the price of the boat.

I bet that some of you are thinking: well he have said so nice things about the Jeanneau 409 and now he is impressed with this one! after all this one is better or worse than the Jeanneau, what would be the one he you would chose?

Well, I would chose a Salona 41:D but I am quite sure that the vast majority of sailors would chose a Jeanneau 409 or an Oceanis 41. As I have said many times, all boats are compromises and my preferences are not main stream in what regards the market (and that does not make them better, just different and mine).

If I had to choose between the two I would chose the performance version of the Jeanneau 409 (much more expensive than a Oceanis 41) but that's because I don't mind to sail with more heel and I make a lot of upwind sailing, even when the sea is rough (I only stop when everybody is seasick and complaining:D).

One thing cannot be denied: The Oceanis offer a much bigger cockpit and an incredible swim platform. It offers also a much American huge dodger. Well I was going to write sparywood, but this one is so big that can only be a dodger:D It is also very rigid because the arch integrates the structure. Regarding the Arch I have to say that you don't feel its presence on the cockpit and it is certainly very resistant (on one of the tests a big guy was on top of it just for putting the sail in the bag and I could not see any flexing).

The system to regulate the main is not certainly as good as the big traveler on the jeanneau 409 but nobody was complaining on those test sails, so the system should work reasonably well.

I guess that these are just two unusually good and well designed sailboats, sailboats that would have been a dream 10 years ago and that represent the best of modern design on this category.













Movie:

http://cdn.streamlike.com/js/uc3/ev...5&height=363&swfskin=8&colorskin=361&plugin=5

 
#1,798 ·
:mad:
Six or seven years ago , in another forum, on a thread about tendencies in design regarding future hull shapes of cruising boats, I said that I believed that cruising boats were gonna be more beamy and with the beam carried aft. I was so flamed that i give up to post on that forum but I was pretty sure that I was right. Now the biggest mass production boat builder has all its cruising series (Sense and Oceanis) designed that way.

The question is why? Well today's cruising boats and even more in the future are solo sailed or sailed by a couple and most of the time the help the wife gives is very limited. Given this picture it seemed obvious to me that the hull shape more indicated for short crew sailing was the shape developed for solo racing: beamy boats with the beam carried aft.

What are the advantages: Boats with a superior stability given by its huge form stability and boats that can be designed to have a good performance without heeling much and are incredible stable an easy in downwind sailing that it is much of the sailing cruisers do (upwind most just turn the engine on). The performance downwind is also better in what regards performance. They provide also for more interior space and more space on the cockpit.

The disadvantages are: More wet surface (they need more sail area to compensate, sail that they can carry because they have more stability), less pointing ability and worse performance upwind, specially with waves (more wave drag), more slamming upwind in bad weather.

Comparing advantages and disadvantages it is (and was) obvious to me that for the big majority of cruisers the advantages were much bigger than the disadvantages and that stability, sailing at good speed with a small angle of heel, interior and cockpit space are probably the things that have more importance for most cruisers.

So, Benetau that always had his boats designed by the most advanced NA (that design race boats and cruising boats) have understood this quickly and have been pointing in this direction from some years now.

One of the best boats in the Oceanis line and one that has been there more years without being replaced (because it was advanced for its time and continues to sell well) is the Oceanis 37 that was this characteristics.

Well, the new Oceanis 41 is designed exactly by the same NAs, Finot/Conq and as a kind or reward by the excellent design and market success of the 37, Benetau has done something very rare: This time they did not give them any directions regarding the boat they wanted. Just the best they can do regarding a 40ft cruising boat that would appeal to the majority of the market.

The result was the 41 (and the 45 that was also designed by them).

When I saw the first drawings I didn't like very much the shape of the boat, the arch and specially the interior that looked unappealing and regarding sailing, after having read the tests sails made to the Sense Series I was not very convinced. Not that the Sense sail badly, but for what the testers said it was a kind of sparkles performance. Yes the sailed well, but did not point high and the sailing feeling were kind of indifferent, meaning nobody is going to buy a Sense by its sailing performance or the pleasure it gives at the wheel. at least this was the feeling I got from what they have said.

The funny thing is that they have said exactly that on the boat test, I mean they were not expecting much and they have said that they where surprised by the boat. The boat was tested by Voile and Voiliers and by Voile magazine and on both tests they were convinced and think this is going to be a great sailboat and a big market success. The best test was the one from Voile magazine, a 100Nm test and they measured these speeds:

Close to the wind with 6K wind - 4.9K speed....with 7.5K wind - 6.6K speed

with 18/20K wind at 140Âş - 9.5K speed.

These is a very good performance for a cruiser and show all the expertise of Finot/Conq designing this kind of hulls. They have a huge experience in designing solo racing solo boats: Minis, Class 40 and Open60.

Voile and Voiliers on their boat test also commented on how well the boat sailed and particularly in what regards the negative characteristics of this kind of hull that were non apparent in sailing.

On both test they said that the sensation at the wheel was good and particularly on the one where they sailed 100Nm, they said that they had fun at the wheel.

They had made only a really negative remark in what regards the dificulty to put all the sail in the lazy bag and zipe it. It seems that the boom is very high. That is a problem for the ones that would not chose in mast furling. Benetau had said to them that on the next boats to come the boom was going to be lowered 20 cms to make easier to work on the mainsail.











I saw the boat on the Paris boat show and I was surprised. The boat looks a lot better than what the bad designs that I had saw make me believe and the interior is also a lot better. I guess that those photos with a dark interior don't help in what regards to feel the space. However I still think it is rather dumb from Benetau to insist in showing the boat in dark mahogany when they have other options in ligther wood that makes the boat look a lot better.

The guys from Voile and Voiliers criticized heavily the position of the mast on the boat interior (not the mast but the compression post). I don't think that way. Like on the Oceanis 37 the mast is more aft than what is usual for giving the boat a perfect balance between the front sail and the main and I find that it gives a very good holding point and is integrated on the interior decoration. Like the one on the 37 it is mirrored all around and that helps to its integration.

The boat has the less inclined steps, from the cockpit to the interior, that I ever saw in a sailboat, an incredibly good access.

The galley is huge for a 40ft, the size of the 2 fridge are remarkable (130L and 85L) and the saloon is nice and cozy with a good outside view. For charter I would say that the saloon table is small, but on a 40ft most of the time there are not more than 4 or 5 and for that number it is fine.

The head is good with a big separated shower and even if the 2 head version is chosen, the one on the front cabin is not small because the front cabin is really big. On this boat you don't need the 2 cabin version because the galley is already big enough and there is enough storage space on the outside. Quite rare on a 40ft boat, where on most boats I would chose a 2 cabin boat to have a bigger head or/and a bigger galley. No need for that on this boat and I bet that the 2 cabin version will not sell.

But the best part of this boat is the cockpit that seems to belong to a 45ft boat. It is HUGE and the extension that gives the swimming platform is incredible. A private beach:D

The cockpit table is huge (I guess they have considered that while cruising most cruisers are going to use this one) but because the cockpit is so large does not clutter the space and serve as an adequate support for the feet while sailing.

The quality of the interior is the one that we all know from Beneteau, perhaps a bit worse than Jeanneau or Dufour, but globally good for the price of the boat.

I bet that some of you are thinking: well he have said so nice things about the Jeanneau 409 and now he is impressed with this one! after all this one is better or worse than the Jeanneau, what would be the one he you would chose?

Well, I would chose a Salona 41:D but I am quite sure that the vast majority of sailors would chose a Jeanneau 409 or an Oceanis 41. As I have said many times, all boats are compromises and my preferences are not main stream in what regards the market (and that does not make them better, just different and mine).

If I had to choose between the two I would chose the performance version of the Jeanneau 409 (much more expensive than a Oceanis 41) but that's because I don't mind to sail with more heel and I make a lot of upwind sailing, even when the sea is rough (I only stop when everybody is seasick and complaining:D).

One thing cannot be denied: The Oceanis offer a much bigger cockpit and an incredible swim platform. It offers also a much American huge dodger. Well I was going to write sparywood, but this one is so big that can only be a dodger:D It is also very rigid because the arch integrates the structure. Regarding the Arch I have to say that you don't feel its presence on the cockpit and it is certainly very resistant (on one of the tests a big guy was on top of it just for putting the sail in the bag and I could not see any flexing).

The system to regulate the main is not certainly as good as the big traveler on the jeanneau 409 but nobody was complaining on those test sails, so the system should work reasonably well.

I guess that these are just two unusually good and well designed sailboats, sailboats that would have been a dream 10 years ago and that represent the best of modern design
Thanks so much for this report. I'll be talking to my Beneteau dealer to see if we can agree numbers. Hope so!

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