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  #4161  
Old 05-28-2013
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Re: One of my preferred boats got even better: Malango 1045

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Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
...

I also very much liked your post about the Django’s and especially the 6.70. Statistics all over Europe show the average age of boat owners is rising dramatically. So we need more of this kind of designs to attract young people to yachting. This one can be beached, trailed and launched without a crane, saving quite a lot of costs and extending the sailing horizon at the same time. Adding the performance I believe this is a very promising cocktail to recruit young addicts.

I only think the lifted keel will be a very bothersome intrusion in the interior, especially on such a small boat. But I understand a swinging keel would make this little boat too expensive for the market segment it is intended to.
Although I am myself used to (and perfectly happy with) a basic interior, I don’t like concessions on the finishing touch and the way wires are left unprotected (such as on the 7.70 interior picture) is asking for immediate trouble. It won’t take more than a few nice waves and an inadvertent crewmember to tear these off. But covering them is of course an easy job and DIY is an essentiel skill starting yachtsmen better acquire as soon as possible.

So I very much welcome these innovative and attractive designs and certainly hope many more will follow.

Best regards,

Eric
Hi Eric,

Yes, those wires are really odd and I don't have a clue about what they are. Maybe something mounted by the boat owner and not the shipyard?

Unfortunately any new boat is expensive and even the Django 6.70 costs over 40 000 euros. I guess that kids will be sailing mostly on small boats of this type but used old ones. I heard about two kids that are circumnavigating on an old mini racer and some time ago about three friends that crossed the Atlantic on an old Pogo 8.50 and voyaged extensively before coming back.

Yes I believe that is probably the more fun and less expensive type of boat for voyaging....but kids have only money for old ones....unless they are rich kids

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 05-28-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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  #4162  
Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

If you mean those wires on the inside of the cabin by the companionway, those connect to the NKE displays on the cockpit cabin bulkhead. There's a wire coming out of the bottom of the compass, beneath the companionway, as well. That's a fairly common way to route instrument wiring on race boats with the displays mounted in that location. Not really any better options. And the wiring is marine grade and can withstand a fair bit of moisture. They're mounted in similar fashion on Mini 6.50s and those are fairly wet boats.

On expensive cruising boats, with interior cabin liners, you can hide all that wiring. But now you're in a different price range.
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  #4163  
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Re: One of my preferred boats got even better: Malango 1045

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Hi Eric,

Yes, those wires are really odd and I don't have a clue about what they are. Maybe something mounted by the boat owner and not the shipyard?

Unfortunately any new boat is expensive and even the Django 6.70 costs over 40 000 euros. I guess that kids will be sailing mostly on small boats of this type but used old ones. I heard about two kids that are circumnavigating on an old mini racer and some time ago about three friends that crossed the Atlantic on an old Pogo 8.50 and voyaged extensively before coming back.

Yes I believe that is probably the more fun and less expensive type of boat for voyaging....but kids have only money for old ones....unless they are rich kids

Regards

Paulo
The pricing on the Malango 888 is listed at 76.000 €, while the 999 lists at 115.000 €. By comparison, the SeaScape 27 lists at around 50.000 €, so I think the boats are not overpriced for today's market. Of course, these are all base prices, without sails, electronics or accessories. I would probably tack at least another 30.000 € to each of those prices to get to a realistic sail-away price, possibly more if you throw in solar panels, AIS, radar, etc. But I suspect you'll be pretty happy with the result.
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  #4164  
Old 05-29-2013
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Malango 999

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
If you look very closely at the second Malango video, it does appear to have an anchor locker in the bow, as evidenced by what looks like a stainless steel latch where one might expect to find one for a locker, as well as a small raised nacelle just aft of the headsail furling drum, presumably to allow the anchor rode to enter / exit. Also, one of the interior shots looks like it shows what would be an anchor locker extending down and aft into the forepeak. Hard to believe this boat would be lacking in that regard.

I never know quite what people mean when they ask if a boat can go "offshore" - one can cross oceans in just about anything. The Malango seems perfectly suitable for extended ocean sailing, and based on the video and reputation of the boat yard, I wouldn't hesitate to sail it from the U.S. East Coast to the Caribbean, for example.

However, the Malango is clearly not intended as a blue water cruiser - it lacks storage and tankage that most people would consider necessities for such usage. Of course, that doesn't mean that there are not people who might circumnavigate in one. Alessandro Di Benedetto went around in a Mini 6.50, for goodness sake. And after reading Paulo's posts about the Polish women who did solo circumnavigations in the Mantra 28 I have a new appreciation for the seaworthiness of small boats. The Malango might even do the trick for me.

If you mean those wires on the inside of the cabin by the companionway, those connect to the NKE displays on the cockpit cabin bulkhead. There's a wire coming out of the bottom of the compass, beneath the companionway, as well. That's a fairly common way to route instrument wiring on race boats with the displays mounted in that location. Not really any better options. And the wiring is marine grade and can withstand a fair bit of moisture. They're mounted in similar fashion on Mini 6.50s and those are fairly wet boats.

...The pricing on the Malango 888 is listed at 76.000 €, while the 999 lists at 115.000 €.

NOTE: Have to love this quote from the IDB Marine web site, regarding the Malango 888: "Malango 888 is primarily a pleasure boat, designed both for use as a day-boat or for a Transquadra..." I guess that answers the question about the offshore suitability of these boats.
Thanks for the information about those "wires".

I guess the prices you talk about are without European tax, VAT. When I was talking about the Django 6.7 (a bit more than 44 000 euros) it included already VAT.

Regarding anchor locker and bow roller these images of the 999 are explicit:







Well, the last one not so much, even if you can see there the bow roller, but it is a nice one

Regarding the offshore ability of the smaller boat (888) and it being designed with the Transquadra in mind, the Transquadra is a very famous French Transat. It is a race but as they have so many professional racers this one is reserved for amateurs with more than 40 years old. Generally the average age is a lot more and you can believe me, they are amateurs but lot's of very good racers (some that had been professionals when they were younger) doing that and a huge amount of boats

They boats are limited to a max IRC rating and that makes that most of the boats racing are small fast ones. It is a solo or duo race.

That means the designer of the 888 considers the boat suitable to race a transat. That does mean something in what regards the boat offshore potential. sure the 999 or the new 1045 have even a bigger offshore potential. I agree with what you say about it.

Regarding the 999, a nice video that gives a better overall image of the boat:



Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 05-29-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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  #4165  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Interesting that in the very fine video the Malango is berthed right next to an X-34, a boat recently replaced in the X Yachts line by the Xp-33. A pre-owned X-34 will set you back 119.000 - 150.000 € VAT paid, while the Xp-33 is so new there are none available on the used market. I expect it would be more expensive than a new Malango 9.99.

All three boats are quite dissimilar, with the Malango reflecting its roots in offshore shorthanded sailing, with a fine entry and max beam (3.7m) carried all the way aft to the transom. The X-34 is more traditional, with max beam (3.4m) aft of amidship, but tapered back to a narrower transom. The Malango is a much lighter boat - 3.266 kg vs. 5.300 kg (1.300 kg vs 2.200 kg in the keel) - though, of course, LOA is .37 m shorter - and should probably crush the X-34 downwind or reaching.





Interestingly, in light of Paulo's informative discussion on rocker, both boats have a fair amount, though I would say the X 34 has more.

The interiors are quite different, and you can see right away where that extra weight comes from on the X-34, with that characteristic X Yachts wood joinery in the cabin.

For me, the Malango 9.99 just seems like the kind of boat I'd want to sail across oceans to warm climates, while the X-34 is a boat more suited to exploring the northern latitudes, taking shelter from rain and fog below decks, with a warm cup of coffee, while swinging at anchor in a fjord.
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  #4166  
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Rocker: Malango 999, X34 and X33.

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Interesting that in the very fine video the Malango is berthed right next to an X-34, a boat recently replaced in the X Yachts line by the Xp-33. A pre-owned X-34 will set you back 119.000 - 150.000 € VAT paid, while the Xp-33 is so new there are none available on the used market. I expect it would be more expensive than a new Malango 9.99.

All three boats are quite dissimilar, with the Malango reflecting its roots in offshore shorthanded sailing, with a fine entry and max beam (3.7m) carried all the way aft to the transom. The X-34 is more traditional, with max beam (3.4m) aft of amidship, but tapered back to a narrower transom. The Malango is a much lighter boat - 3.266 kg vs. 5.300 kg (1.300 kg vs 2.200 kg in the keel) - though, of course, LOA is .37 m shorter - and should probably crush the X-34 downwind or reaching.





Interestingly, in light of Paulo's informative discussion on rocker, both boats have a fair amount, though I would say the X 34 has more.

The interiors are quite different, and you can see right away where that extra weight comes from on the X-34, with that characteristic X Yachts wood joinery in the cabin.

For me, the Malango 9.99 just seems like the kind of boat I'd want to sail across oceans to warm climates, while the X-34 is a boat more suited to exploring the northern latitudes, taking shelter from rain and fog below decks, with a warm cup of coffee, while swinging at anchor in a fjord.

Hum, that is an interesting comparison in what regards rocker but I don't think the X34 has a similar rocker comparing with the Malango 999. The X34 has a lot more:





In fact the new Xp33 is much closer to the Malango 999 than from the previous X34, even if the Malango has a bit less rocker (the Malango photo is from a new daysailor that has the same hull).



That (and weight) relates with the good ability the Xp 33 has to plan:






Regards differences between the two boats I have no doubt the Xp33 would be faster on a regatta and overall (and much faster than the X34) but to go fast downwind will need a crew while with the Malango one can do it alone.

Regarding cruising, well, that is a question of taste but the Malango will have a much bigger and more luminous interior with more storage and will be a far better voyage boat, much more easy and forgiving, not to mention the possibility to search for shelter near shore while on anchor and the ability to carry an inflated dinghy.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Normally I'm not a big fan of self-tacking jibs, particularly offshore. But the Malango might change my mind about this given its nice integration of a Code Zero, flown from a short sprit, into the equation.

It seems to me that as soon as you crack off the wind in lighter air, you can furl the non-overlapping jib and deploy the Code Zero. Then, as the breeze builds, you can go back to the jib and not pay a heavy performance penalty. Once you're in a more downwind orientation, you have a symetrical spinnaker option or, perhaps, you can mix-and-match A-sails and S-sails, depending on conditions.

I realize that the Malango keeps things simply by eshewing a square-top main and running backstays, but personally I think I'd prefer that arrangement over the standard one. Just gives you more sail trim options offshore. But for coastal and inshore, the standard arrangement is more than adequate.

One last thing about this really interesting boat: It looks to me like the size of the dinghy garage pretty much determines the size of dinghy you can have; anything bigger, and the garage can't be used. What, then, would one use the garage for if - for whatever reason - one opts for a larger dinghy? I suppose it could still be used for dinghy storage once the larger dinghy is deflated, though not quite as intended.
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Re: Rocker: Malango 999, X34 and X33.

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Regards differences between the two boats I have no doubt the Xp33 would be faster on a regatta and overall (and much faster than the X34) but to go fast downwind will need a crew while with the Malango one can do it alone.

Regarding cruising, well, that is a question of taste but the Malango will have a much bigger and more luminous interior with more storage and will be a far better voyage boat, much more easy and forgiving, not to mention the possibility to search for shelter near shore while on anchor and the ability to carry an inflated dinghy.

Regards

Paulo
I had to laugh at the end of the Xp 33 trailer when it referred to a "Danish" sailing experience. In my mind I immediately contrasted that "Danish" experience to a "French" experience - i.e., The Danes all huddled together in the back of the boat, in their foul weather gear, working hard to go fast downwind, in cold, foggy conditions... vs. the French sailor, all by himself, dancing in shorts at the back of the cockpit while the pilot steers the boat fast, downwind, in warm, sunny weather (from that Transquadra video of the JPK you've posted a few times). Which "experience" do you prefer? That is an easy question for me.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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One last thing about this really interesting boat: It looks to me like the size of the dinghy garage pretty much determines the size of dinghy you can have; anything bigger, and the garage can't be used. What, then, would one use the garage for if - for whatever reason - one opts for a larger dinghy? I suppose it could still be used for dinghy storage once the larger dinghy is deflated, though not quite as intended.
..throw a mattress in and the kids can sleep there!

I do like the 999 - perfect size for a couple and I think it would be a blast to sail esp double or short/single handed. A really good galley for such a light, performance oriented boat. I do wonder about storage, though, with such an open interior. And of course here in the PNW we'd be fine with a fixed deep keel.. I wonder if that would be an option?

Clearly I should have been born wealthy and European.. what a rich world of design and innovation compared to North America...
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Now this is pretty!!

Taylor 49 from Brooklin Boatyard, Maine

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