SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!
Status
Not open for further replies.

Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
See less See more
#1,799 · (Edited)
I guess that we all know the Delphia 40, the sailingboat that has made the reputation of Delphia. The boat is around for a long time and is now in its 3th remake, I mean, the same hull and new interiors and slightly different and more modern cabin tops.

They offer an incredible number of different layouts and several keel configurations. On the 2 cabin configuration the boat is well adapted for living aboard, with lot's of storage and a huge galley.

The boat is solid and well built, offers a good B/D ratio, the interior is of average quality (I would say similar to Beneteau) and offers a good price/quality ratio, however that hull is a bit dated and I bet that it will not take long for an entirely new boat.









Virtual Tour Created By Easypano

So, it is not a new boat, it has a dated hull, why the hell I am posting about it?

Because there are a guy that is circumnavigating SOLO AND NON STOP in one and it is not a top sailor or a racer, just a middle aged sailor that after having crossed the Atlantic (both ways) in his Delphia liked the sensation and wanted more. Well, this is certainly more:D

Now he is down there, south of Australia were the winds are strong and the waves are big making his way through the big Pacific Ocean. If you want to follow its voyage you can do it here:

Lokalizacja | Around The World Delphia Project

he has a site with some parts in English:

Around The World Delphia Project



 
#1,801 ·
If you have a recent boat with a Selden mast pay attention:

Selden had made a recall on the forestay fittings of some of their masts (2004-2008). The piece has the reference - 517-914. Here is the piece photo and all information:

Seldén Mast AB

The failures can happen on long distance cruising using only the genoa and Cracks are along the weld on the underside part of the fitting and will not be visible.

Many boats affected, between them: Arcona 460, Bavaria 46, Dehler 47, Elan Impression, Finngulf 44, Hallberg Rassy 40, Maxi 1300, Najad 460, 400,405,440, Omega 46, Salona 45, Sweden Yachts 42 and 45, Southerly 42, Van de Stadt 44, and Etap 46.
 
#1,802 · (Edited)
Tartan 4000, boat of the year for Cruising world Magazine, boat of the year for sailing world magazine...I guess that I have to make a post about it.;)

Let me tell you that among the production American boats Tartan are the ones that I like most. I like the old 4100 and its mix of classicism and modernity.

I cannot say that I like the 4000 very much. They have utilized a some years old hull, the one from c&c 121, a good hull that is not yet dated, a modern hull, a beamy hull that marks a sharp contrast with the traditional hull of the previous model....and then, instead of having a modern design for a modern hull they treated the overall outside design in a very classical way.

In my opinion it is not a match, I mean the modern wide hull and the retro classical line. I find the previous model much more elegant and comfortable in its lines: Traditional hull, classical line.





The cockpit looks good and functional but the transom seems anachronistic with a very small opening and without a bath platform. That could be justified in a classic boat with a classic hull, but on that large and modern stern that little gate seems out of proportion.

The interior is very nice in a traditional way but the layout only permits a two cabin version while on other boats of this size we can find a similar sized galley and three cabins. But the worse is the lack of outside views from the saloon. I really think that is going to be a very negative point in what concerns sales. If you target the small niche of classical boats, a classical hull without hull ports can make sense, but when the target is the main market it makes no sense at all.



Another strange thing is the carbon mast. I am all in favor for them in performance boats but notwithstanding Sailing world choice as this boat as performance sailboat of the year, this boat is not a performance sailboat and that mast looks out of place in a 40ft boat that displaces around 9T (and makes it unnecessarily more expensive).

The keel, more than the hull looks dated and it is in flagrant contradiction with the Carbon mast. It is too wide and has much weight on the support and not as much as it should have in the bulb if instead of an all lead keel it had a steel narrower and thinner support and a lead bulb.



Some good choices, some odd choices makes this boat an unbalanced one and is difficult to understand how it got so many prizes. I hope I am wrong and this boat can be a sales success. Ultimately it is the public that decides what is a good boat and a bad boat and I would hate to see Tartan disappear and this boat is very much the last opportunity to get it right for Tartan.

 
#1,803 · (Edited)
Hey Andrews, if you liked the Elan 210 you are going to like this one, it is the same concept but on a North European view, the Campus 7.4, a sweet boat that can even have a real head. The boat is made by Fabola that is the company that make the Fabola Diva 35, 36 and 38, beautiful boats that were already posted here.









It is a dam fast little boat, a boat that is a lot of fun to sail and has a simple but beautiful interior:





And a test comparison with the Elan 210:



The boat weights 1 250Kg, has a ballasted swing keel with 300kg and is easily trailerable.

Technical data Fabola Campus 7.4

LOA (length body) 7.45 m
Total length 7.26 m
Width 2.59 m
Draft 0.30 to 1.75 m
Weight 1.25 t
Ballast-/anteil 300 kg/25%
Sail Area 27.8 to 30.5 sqm

Price starts at € 27 350and can go till 45,000 €, in this case including trailer (prices include German VAT). Not cheap, but this a Swedish boat;)

Nice test on the German Magazine Yacht and a comparative test with the Elan 210 on the Norwegian magazine Seilas.
 
#1,806 ·
Hey Andrews, if you liked the Elan 210 you are going to like this one, it is the same concept but on a North European view, the

snip
Nice. The idea of a simple nippy day sailor really does have appeal. There are plenty of days when it would be great to just jump on board and go for a blast, not to mention the occasional club race and/or twilight.
 
#1,804 ·
Last edition of the Yacht sailing magazine comes with a fantastic story:

The worse documented nightmare in a boat. Well, it does not beat Ulysses misadventures but it is pretty bad. The story is about a 3 mast sailboat trying to pass the worn. They have taken 99 days and lost 3 men. Huge storms keep pushing them back. This was their course:



Can you imagine? that is absolutely crazy...what a nightmare :rolleyes:

The boat was this beauty:



The ship was the three mast "Susanna" with captain Christian JĂĽrgens Simon and the year was 1905.
 
#1,807 · (Edited)
You are interested in all those boats?:D

Najad are expensive Luxury cruisers, very good boats with very nice quality interiors. They are on the same league with Halberg Rassy and Malo, all Swedish boats but I guess you already now that. Old ones are a bit on the slow side but new models are good sailing boats, a bit slower than the typical mass production cruiser in light wind but relatively fast and seaworthy with medium winds.

Here you have a movie from the Yachting Monthly test sail to the Najad 410:



And a test summary:

Najad 410 | Single-hull Boat Reviews | Yachting Monthly | Single-Hull Boat Reviews | Yachting Monthly

A test by Sail magazine on the 570 with a movie:

Najad 570 Test Sail | Sail Magazine

A movie of a 440ac in a race:rolleyes:



Some test sails on the 355:

http://www.sailmagazine.com/sailboat-reviews/najad-355

http://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/boat-reviews/najad-355-perfecting-the-pocket-cruiser

http://48north.com/may_2008/najad/najad_1.htm

some more nice movies:







And here a list of tests you can find about each model:

Najad Owners Forum - Boat Reviews

And you speak German and don't mind to pay 2€ for each you can find some good ones here, including some comparatives :

Download*|*YACHT.DE

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,808 ·
An interesting book, or better an interesting new edition of this Jimmy Cornell classic:



I bought it on the Paris boat show, or better my wife bought it to me and I could not see it properly because she declare that it was my Christmas gift and wrap it up away from me:rolleyes:

But it is basically composed with big A3 pages like this one:



A collection for a given ocean or zone, one page to each month.

The data was collected during the last 20 years by NASA and includes winds and currents.

The boat was also some comments about each region, problems, best way and time to cross and so on.

It would be very useful to the ones that are out there or that plan to cross oceans or sail extensively and it would be very useful to improve the quality of dreaming of all armchair sailors:D
 
#1,810 ·
An interesting book, or better an interesting new edition of this Jimmy Cornell classic:

But it is basically composed with big A3 pages like this one:

Did some digging and here's an explanation of the symbols in the diagram above:

The ocean charts in this atlas show the mean wind speed and direction for every month of the year in each of the world's oceans . Each wind rose is located in the centre of either a ten or a five degrees square and shows the distribution of the winds that prevail in that area from eight cardinal points . The arrows fly with the wind and their lengths show thepercentage of the total number of observations in which the wind has blown from that cardinal point . The number of feathers shows the forceof the wind, which has been recorded most frequently from that sector .
The wind force is measured on the Beaufort scale, with each feather being equivalent to one unit of wind force, so that four feathers represent an average force 4 winds from that direction for that particular month . In areas with prevailing winds, the resulting arrow would be too long to be shown in its entirety, in which case for percentages higher than thirty, the percentage is shown numerically on the shaft .
The figure in the centre of each circle gives either the percentage of calms in blue (less than force 2), or the percentage of storms in red (more than force 7), whichever is greater .
Ocean currents are shown as green arrows indicating their prevailing direction while the rate is reflected in the number of feathers, each being equivalent to 0 .25 knots . Therefore, an arrow with four feathers indicates a mean rate of 1 knot during the month in question
Great Thread, Paulo.... keep it up!
 
#1,813 · (Edited)
I was very curious about what the testers of my preferred sail magazine would be saying after testing the Grand Soleil 39 and I would be interested in seeing if they would confirm the opinion that I have on the boat. I was and I am very impressed with that boat.

I had a good look at the boat at the Paris boat show but I did not have sailed the boat and my opinion about that was based on what Italian testers from several boat magazines had said about it (and the movies they had made). But they were Italians and the boat is also Italian so their opinion could be a bit more "favorable" than it should be if it was a non Italian boat. I was really interested in that German opinion, just to see if it matched with the one from the Italians.







So, the opinion from the guys from the German "Yacht" magazine (translated):

Sporty, beautiful and full of good ideas

Cantiere del Pardo wants to reposition itself, and it builds a strong performance cruiser for the medium segment...

The sailing boat is powerful and left us with a good impression. The deck layout is high functional and have new and sophisticated approaches...

On deck, linen and sheets are hardly seen; the running rigging is as far as possible out in channels. Visually it looks classy and its functionality is clearly a plus.

Below deck, which is characterized by a very nice new and modern interior design....open and flooded with light.

Cantiere del Pardo works with a lot of white surfaces and an increasing number of white composite materials.This looks fabulous and relaxing giving a strong visually distinctive look. This is also due to the several large windows and an interior more luminous than before.

The standard boat is equipped with mahogany veneers but can also have an interior with light oak or teak.

Well, I guess that they were impressed too:D

You can read all the test on the last number of the magazine.
 
#1,814 · (Edited)
The much awaited substitute of the Hanse 400, the 415:













The Hanse 400 is a great boat, a fast one for a cruiser and a boat that had in its interior the weakest part. Well in what regards sailing performance and stability this seems to be at least as good and probably better and faster than the late 400. A good looking boat with a modern design.

The water line is 0.6m longer, the boat has a more modern and efficient bulbed keel, a lot of beam carried aft in what seems to be a good looking hull, a big B/D ratio (taken into consideration this type of keel) and it offers Germam sheeting but contrary to the French boats this one at least offers the possibility of a separated winch for the genoa (I don't know if it is standard).

It offers also a considerable sail area, 87 m2, specially considering this is the sail area with a self taking jib. With a Genoa it will have well over 90 m2.







Regarding the interior these layouts are not god enough to see if there is some improvement, but after seeing the Dehler 41 interior I am a bit pessimist. we can see already that the saloon will have only a small port hull, much smaller than in any French boat (even smaller than the two on the Grand soleil 39) and that the two cabin version only offers a small galley. To have a galley compared to what the Benetau 41 offers on the three cabin version we would have to go here for the two cabin version.

The boat will be at the Dusseldorf boat show.
 
#1,815 ·
Every so often a member starts a thread that takes on a life of its own and becomes a unique resource for our community. To keep these threads visible they receive a stationary position on the forum.

Such is the case with this thread and with Paulo's ongoing support of it. As a result SailNet Moderator Faster nominated this thread and asked me to confer the honor and thank Paulo for his hard work in creating this wonderful discussion.

Thank you Paulo!
 
#1,822 ·
Every so often a member starts a thread that takes on a life of its own and becomes a unique resource for our community. To keep these threads visible they receive a stationary position on the forum.

Such is the case with this thread and with Paulo's ongoing support of it. As a result SailNet Moderator Faster nominated this thread and asked me to confer the honor and thank Paulo for his hard work in creating this wonderful discussion.

Thank you Paulo!
I must say, I have to agree with Jeff, even though I don't always agree with Paulo....:D
Thanks Paulo!
Bernd
 
#1,816 ·
Hi Paulo

Just back from a sailing boot camp of RYA theory, first aid at sea and a prep week for the next step up but I have managed to follow the thread on my mobile with great interest.

Firstly congratulations on your Salona 38 choice - I am sure you have chosen well and that you will get what you expect. When I was in Croatia earlier this year, I had a look at the Salona 37 and realised that yachts are as much an affair of the heart as they are an affair of the head. To my eye, the Salona 37 in its non face-lifted version just doesn't have the look which probably explains why Salona opted for the colourful hulls? The face-lifted Salona 37 and the new Salona 38 on the other hand have all the specs AND the looks.

Also thanks for the incredibly helpful information on keels - it seems that if we really want to compare stability, we need to compare RM stability charts for each boat - if only they were available on all yachts.

To my next point - More and more manufacturers seem to be putting the shrouds out on the gunwale as opposed to mounting them nearer the coach roof. I think this has been done partly due to mainsails becoming bigger, genoas becoming smaller but also no doubt to make the rig stronger and more stable. There is a downside to this though. Consider the Beneteau Oceanis 37 which is also one of my favourites. Some critics believe that the yacht is under canvassed and will suffer a little in light winds as well as when the yacht is on a broad reach or running without a spinnaker or assymetrical. With the shrouds out on the gunwale, it becomes more difficult and sometimes impossible to increase the size of the genoa to beyond the 105% that it comes out with. I notice too that the Grand Soleil 39 and the Hanse 415 have also placed the shrouds here. Surely you break even or win by having the shrouds inboard - albeit with additional re-inforcement - as this allows one to increase the size of the genoa to say 140%. It also allows you to achieve a tighter sheeting angle well sailing close hauled so it is a choice that I don't fully understand. The Dufour 375 by the way has the shrouds inboard which seemed to help in achieving a sparkling performance in the latest test in Sailing Today.

Congrats on the forum's award by the way - totally merited.

All the best

David
 
#1,820 ·
To my next point - More and more manufacturers seem to be putting the shrouds out on the gunwale as opposed to mounting them nearer the coach roof. ..... There is a downside to this though. ....... Surely you break even or win by having the shrouds inboard - ... It also allows you to achieve a tighter sheeting angle well sailing close hauled so it is a choice that I don't fully understand.
I think this concept makes a lot of sense overall... if the rig is designed around it, you end up with much more manageable headsails.. and fewer required. As far as pointing ability pretty much all of these boats sheet their non overlapping headsails inside the shrouds, and in fact now there's virtually no limit to the sheeting angle achievable. Of course how far inboard you can go depends a lot on the rest of the rig/hull/keel configuration.

But overall, on the wind you won't need a lot of pressure before you're fully powered up with the standard rig (with enough power in the mainsail, of course) and off the wind the various Code 0s and Code Ds etc on a sprit will fill the gap between beating and running that traditionally required a whopping genoa.
 
#1,819 ·
I will try to go to Dusseldorf 2012, they are going to show both 440 (AC and CC).
I agree with you about the N380. Its accommodations facilities and many other things are very unique comparing to other boats that are available in the market in the same size.
The HR372 is an amazing boat with excellent cruising performance, even in the " YACHTING Monthly" article when they tested the boat, they mentioned that it is a good value of money.
Malo in my opinion has a pleasant cockpit , but i don't understand this brand why they didn't built a nice space aft cabin in the Malo 47 like we can find in the N380? But the interiors are well finished.

About NAJAD crisis it was good news that Nordwest bought it , and i am confident about it.

Regards
 
#1,821 · (Edited)
I'm not convinced with centre cockpits under 40' but once over they do come into their own. For mine I don't understand why Malo didn't go CC for the 47.
I must say I do like the HR43.
One thing i don't like about Najad are those kinked settees. i like straight so you can lie down in some comfort.

Cheers

Andrew
 
#1,826 ·
..
One thing i don't like about Najad are those kinked settees. i like straight so you can lie down in some comfort.

Cheers

Andrew
Andrews, they don't use them anymore:

Najad 410 Virtual Tour

Those seats were designed for chicks with back curves like this:



Just right to lay down comfortably.
Unfortunately they are quite rare these days...but they certainly deserve that bench:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,827 · (Edited)
Interesting boat, not a new one but one that is becoming bigger all the time: GP26, a boat designed by an Australian, Fred Barrett, a racer that is becoming big as a designer;)

"Over the past decade Fred Barrett has been involved in many yacht design and building projects, including project managing the building of maxi yachts at McConaghy Boats in Sydney and shore and technical manager for the Spanish yacht Moviestar for the 2005-2006 Volvo round the world race, as well as running his own design consultancy.

His latest designs, in addition to Fang to the Max, include an 80-footer being built by McConaghy Boats for a Russian yachtsman and a GP26 nearing completion at Van Munsters in NSW.


Sail-World.com : Tasmanian sports boats heading for Audi Victoria Week

The GP 26 is a Grand Prix "BOX RULE" racing yacht introduced and administered by the International ORC organization. This level rating rule class (similar in concept to the TP52) is designed to provide exciting close class racing (without a time allowance or handicap system), be fast, fun to sail, sound and seaworthy with considerable longevity.









Specifications

ORC Special Regulations to Cat 4
Length Overall 7.9m
Maximum Beam 2.55m
Max Draft 1.9m
Max Displacement 1050kgs
Keel Weight 500kg
Max Crew Weight 340kg

Sail Area

Main 24.7 m2
Jib 15.35 m2
Asymmetric Spinnaker 70.49m2

The GP 26, a Design Brief by Fred Barrett:

A local Sydney yachtsman commissioned the intial design for a new class of yacht in the range of 26 feet. This was at a time when the newly formulated GP26 rule just beginning to take off, particularly in South America. It was quickly decided that the new design should reflect the GP26 rule and indeed be the first commissioned and built GP26 in Australia. ..

The design work has been extensive with a matrix of boat shapes tested and culminating in Boat "I" which we felt best represented our initial desires. The GP26 rule clearly defines the rig and sail parameters and so this is our fenced in area from which to place the best combination of hull shape, appendage and bulb configurations along with deck layout and the structural plan.

The rule requires ABS to be followed and in setting up the structure and the result is a robust, but relatively lightweight package, that given the required use of E-glass and Epoxy laminates makes for a cost effective approach. It could be argued that the use of carbon in future rule amendments could save cost, due in part to the need for less laminate weight but given the ABS rule, for this size of yacht the use of more traditional laminates will serve the rule well.

Appendage design is tricky, small is fast, bit only with speed. Big is best but comes with more drag. In this case we went for the fast option and the devil is always in the detail and how the rig combines with the side force developed by both the keel fin and rudder blade. In the same way the bulb design work looked at short and long forms.

The longer bulb chosen reflects our best combination of keel fin weight (rule constraints on keel width and construction) and bulb mass. Getting as much lead as low as possible is the key to getting the righting moment up and perhaps trading off some BWL to get the up-range performance right when heeled along with lighter air modes in general by reducing wetted area.

The cockpit is large, wide and shallow for great crew traffic throughout racing and the cabin detail reflects the best way of getting through the IMS based internal headroom and cabin plane requirements. The hard chine / angular approach to the cabin also comes in handy when setting up hardware...

The final result will be a fast, fun small yacht really a modern day approach to the quarter tonners of old and a new entry level class that is recognised by the ORC and deemed a Grand Prix class, surely a great thing to want to build and go racing in.

GP 26

And look at it: Fast and fun it is for sure:D



 
#1,828 ·
Enjoy a well deserved break, Paulo... all the best to you and your family.
 
#1,831 ·
Hi Paulo and Faster

Thanks for all the info - much obliged. As a cruiser, my DNA is built around LIM - less is more - single headsail programs for a short handed sailing would not be my choice even if they give a better result in terms of sale trim and performance.

What peaked my interest was the following SA/D info pertaining to the Oceanis 37:

* SA/D - adjusted to 100% for the fore triangle so that the genoa size which can vary from 1 manufacturer to the next, does not give a distorted result - 19.4 (Jeanneau 36i Performance - 18.9);
* SA/D - as per actual size of fitted genoa which in this case is 105% - 19.8
* SA/D on a Jeanneau 36i Performance which is comparable in many ways as per actual size of fitted genoa (135% genoa) - 22.0

Despite the difference in SA/D with fitted genoa, the polar for the Oceanis 37 is still better (slightly) than the J36iP - so if one could eek out a liitle more sail area in the genoa .... :)

I am not familiar with a code D but from this discussion it seems that it is a sail which can be mounted on a furler which has an effective range from a close reach (60 degrees) to running? How does it differ from a code zero? My LIM sail wardrobe would be mainsail (a given), a headsail which is able to go from zero to hero as in flying a handkerchief in strong wind up to 140% for light winds and an assymetrical which can be mounted on a furling system or snuffer for easy deployment short handed. Would the code D replace the assymetrical? Can one get away without a staysail or storm jib which would need to be mounted on another forestay and which would require one to leave the cockpit in treacherous conditions?

All the best to all over the festive season- onwards and upwards

David
 
#1,832 ·
I am not familiar with a code D but from this discussion it seems that it is a sail which can be mounted on a furler which has an effective range from a close reach (60 degrees) to running? How does it differ from a code zero? My LIM sail wardrobe would be mainsail (a given), a headsail which is able to go from zero to hero as in flying a handkerchief in strong wind up to 140% for light winds and an assymetrical which can be mounted on a furling system or snuffer for easy deployment short handed. Would the code D replace the assymetrical? Can one get away without a staysail or storm jib which would need to be mounted on another forestay and which would require one to leave the cockpit in treacherous conditions?
It seems a code D is exactly what you want in a LIM sail wardrobe, David.
It has been conceived as a blend of an asymmetrical spinnaker and a code 0. The luff of the sail is almost as straight as a code 0, so the sail can more easily be furled. But towards the leech the sail is shaped more like a spinnaker, for better downwind performance.

Van Drop Box

The straighter luff makes the sail more forgiving for the helmsman and more straightforward to trim. And with a pole it can even be used much further downwind than an asymmetric spinnaker.

I think Paulo already posted this diagram:

Van Drop Box

No doubt a code 0 will perform better upwind and an asymmetric spinnaker will be more fun on a beam reach. But the code D looks very much like the best of two worlds and probably makes perfect sense when you want to reduce the number of sails -and the costs:rolleyes:- especially with the focus on easy handling.
By the way, on the Océanis 37 such a sail might also be a good answer to your question about a bigger foretriangle since the 105% jib does very well upwind, except in very light airs.

I fully agree with Faster's analysis about shrouds on the toerail. If the sailplan is adapted -powerful main, non or little overlapping jib, code sail(s)- it has many advantages.
The loads are transferred directly to the deck-hull-bulkhead joint, which is stronger and much cheaper than inboard designs with pullbars intruding the interior.
The rig is also better sustained laterally, with less tension on the shrouds and compression on the mast. Within the same safety margin mast and rig can therefore be made to lesser dimensions, which is again cheaper. And also lighter, which is very important for performance because every extra pound high up in the rig needs to be compensated by many more pounds down in the keel.
In my honest opinion, the only real drawback is the obstructive lower diagonal when you need to go to the foredeck.

With such a sailplan, I think there is no need any more for large, overlapping genoa. They give you a very hard job when tacking and are much less efficient on a modern, fractioned rig.
Any foresail gets more baggy with every turn on the furling drum, which is exactly what you do not want when the wind builds up. The bigger the sail, the baggier it gets, with less pointing and more heel as a result. The more you furl, the higher the sail comes with even more heel.
So there is no way to make a from zero to hero genoa. If you want the sail to fly in light winds, you need light sailcloth. It will not resist furling and certainly not in strong winds.

With a powerful mainsail and a non overlapping jib reefing the main is the first move, even the second. Afterwards I prefer not to furl the jib but just get rid of it by rolling it away at once and rig a staysail.
This means working on the foredeck, but if bad weather can be foreseen -which is mostly the case- most of the work can be done beforehand and the sail will only need to be released from its bag or lashings.
Then you get a foresail with a custom design for strong winds, flat shape and heavy cloth. It also brings the center of the sailplan down and backwards, which is exactly what you want in heavy conditions. It can also be fitted with a reef, certainly a hard job to take in when it gets that bad, but at that time any furling headsail would be of no use at all.

So in my honest opinion, LIM with a big mainsail means a jib, a code D and a staysail for security.

Best regards,

Eric
 
#1,835 ·
Hi, I agree with you Paulo. A furling overlapping genoa is a much more versatile sail compared to a small jib. Even though a selftacker really makes life easy when shorthanded(family) cruising. I would maybe compromise and choose 120-130%.

Although I like the LIM philosophy i think the properties of code 0 and asym spi is difficult to combine in a good way. Using a Code D with a furler you would have a hard time using it with the spinnaker boom for the highest angles, useful in narrow waters.

Also I do not mind changing sails in lighter winds. Actually I find it makes sailing even more fun.

BTW great thread, and congrats with Salona 38. I totally understand choosing that boat:cool:.
 
#1,836 ·
We will certainly have a code 0 + an asymmetric spinnaker, for more range and better speed. You know, dinghy sailors...
But I still think the code D can be a good compromise if one does not want to carry (and/or invest in) both sails. I also enjoy sail changes as a part of sailing fun, but I’m sure many other cruisers find it cumbersome and will be glad to trade some performance for more versatility.
And when it comes down to costs, a code 0 + a furler and a spinnaker + a snuffer or a high-tech furler will of course be much more expensive than a single code D + furler.

Concerning genoa’s versus non overlapping jibs, it will probably very much depend on the basic design of the rig and thus the sailplan.

Both headsails are less efficient on a fractional rig, especially upwind, because they take lesser profit from the upwash of the main. Mast top rigs now seem old fashioned, but in this concept the small, tall main (short boom, high aspect ratio) gives little power but creates upwash along the full lufflength of the genoa, which provides most of the power. This is one of the many reasons why IOR designs perform well upwind.
This configuration has been given up in modern designs, racers following rules when the IOR rating disappeared. And for cruisers because reducing sail meant frequently changing the headsail.

Then came the fractioned rigs, allowing to tune the mast rake -and trim the shape of the main- much more efficiently. And roller reefing systems, which do not work well with big genoa’s.
Mainsails are now much larger, generating more power and much better to trim to very different shapes. Subsequently foresails become smaller, less powerful but also better manageable when tacking and easier to reef with a roller.

I think Paulo’s example of the Bavaria 36, a very successful design, might illustrate the latest stages of this evolution.
Already a fractioned rig but still with a genoa (36 m2) significantly larger than the main (30 m2). Shrouds are built inwards to allow a correct sheeting angle of the genoa upwind.

In the sailplan of the latest version of the 36 the mast has moved forward, with a longer boom, bigger main (42 m2) with a lower aspect ratio and smaller jib (27 m2).
Shrouds are now fitted on the toerail which prohibits headsails overlapping more than 5 to 10 %.

The total sail area has grown a little from 66 to 69 m2. The displacement much more so the sailplan by itself cannot explain differences in performances, but it seems Paulo’s 36 must be quite faster than the latest version because of an much better S/D ratio.

But the issue in this discussion is that the main has grown from 45% to 61% of the total upwind sail area. The headsail shrinked from 55% to 39%.
The mainsail is now privileged for power, the question is whether this will impair performance upwind, even against a heavy sea. My personal feeling is that this would not be the case with a fractioned rig, because it pays less to favor the headsail for power.

Downwind is a very different matter. A big main will very soon screen off a smaller jib, which becomes mostly useless when sailing lower than a beam reach.
For some time an genoa behind a smaller main will perform better, certainly if a sufficiently long track rail is fitted to control the sheeting angle. But at some point the genoa will need a pole, which can also be used with a code D.
Dead downwind, nothing beats a symmetric spinnaker. But I think this is way off David’s LIM concept.

In conclusion, don’t you think a modern design with the shrouds on the toerail, a forward placed fractioned rig, a big main for power and a small headsail for handling, a code D for fun and a staysail (+ a deep third reef in the main) for security can work very well for cruising in most conditions?

Best regards,

Eric
 
#1,839 · (Edited)
....

Concerning genoa's versus non overlapping jibs, it will probably very much depend on the basic design of the rig and thus the sailplan.

Both headsails are less efficient on a fractional rig, especially upwind, because they take lesser profit from the upwash of the main. Mast top rigs now seem old fashioned, but in this concept the small, tall main (short boom, high aspect ratio) gives little power but creates upwash along the full lufflength of the genoa, which provides most of the power. This is one of the many reasons why IOR designs perform well upwind.
This configuration has been given up in modern designs, racers following rules when the IOR rating disappeared. And for cruisers because reducing sail meant frequently changing the headsail.

Then came the fractioned rigs, allowing to tune the mast rake -and trim the shape of the main- much more efficiently. And roller reefing systems, which do not work well with big genoa's.
Mainsails are now much larger, generating more power and much better to trim to very different shapes. Subsequently foresails become smaller, less powerful but also better manageable when tacking and easier to reef with a roller.

I think Paulo's example of the Bavaria 36, a very successful design, might illustrate the latest stages of this evolution.
Already a fractioned rig but still with a genoa (36 m2) significantly larger than the main (30 m2). Shrouds are built inwards to allow a correct sheeting angle of the genoa upwind.

In the sailplan of the latest version of the 36 the mast has moved forward, with a longer boom, bigger main (42 m2) with a lower aspect ratio and smaller jib (27 m2).
Shrouds are now fitted on the toerail which prohibits headsails overlapping more than 5 to 10 %.

The total sail area has grown a little from 66 to 69 m2. The displacement much more so the sailplan by itself cannot explain differences in performances, but it seems Paulo's 36 must be quite faster than the latest version because of an much better S/D ratio.

But the issue in this discussion is that the main has grown from 45% to 61% of the total upwind sail area. The headsail shrinked from 55% to 39%.
The mainsail is now privileged for power, the question is whether this will impair performance upwind, even against a heavy sea. My personal feeling is that this would not be the case with a fractioned rig, because it pays less to favor the headsail for power.

Downwind is a very different matter. A big main will very soon screen off a smaller jib, which becomes mostly useless when sailing lower than a beam reach.

For some time an genoa behind a smaller main will perform better, certainly if a sufficiently long track rail is fitted to control the sheeting angle. But at some point the genoa will need a pole, which can also be used with a code D.
Dead downwind, nothing beats a symmetric spinnaker. But I think this is way off David's LIM concept.

In conclusion, don't you think a modern design with the shrouds on the toerail, a forward placed fractioned rig, a big main for power and a small headsail for handling, a code D for fun and a staysail (+ a deep third reef in the main) for security can work very well for cruising in most conditions?

Best regards,

Eric
Hei Eric, great post!

That analyses of the evolution of the rig and main sail versus front sail is very good and in my opinion accurate but that is a very recent tendency that was started by Hanse some years ago when they come with self-taking small jibs and huge mainsails (for the time).

It seems that they got it right and everybody is following. As I have said, for most, in what regards mainstream cruising, I think it is a better solution: more manageable front sail and an easy reefing mainsail, now that almost all main market cruising boats come with a furling mainsail.

But of course this only applies to very recent boats that were designed to have a big main and a smaller front sail.

But if we look at performance cruisers, that many times are also used fort club racing or are de-tuned versions of boats more used for racing than for cruising I think the tendency has also much to do with the bad handicap a big genoa has today under most rules. Regarding using such a rig mainly for performance cruising, and off course on these cases you have a non-furling main, another problem arises: Automatic furling (only one 1 line to pull the reef in) only permits two reefs on the main and almost all boats come standard with only two reefs on the main and that is not enough for safety on a big main.

Of course you can mount a two line small third reef to really bad weather and you should but the fact is that most boats come without one.

But I was assuming a small choice of sails (4) that is what most cruisers have, when do they not have only two:D and that is about that situation I am talking about regarding what is the more flexible choice, a big genoa or a noon overlaping front sail.

The 4 sails I am talking about are these: a small front storm sail, a non overlapping front sail or a 135/150%) and a downwind/upwind bigger sail for light wind.

As you have said regarding the configuration of your boat, if instead of a single sail for light wind you have two as you say, a code 0 for upwind sailing and an asymmetric spinaker for downwind sailing, that configuration could be more versatile but you have already one more big expensive sail. And I would say that you need another one, a smaller asymmetric spinnaker for strong downwind sailing that is where you would have more fun with your boat:D

That big asymmetric spinnaker for light winds is to be used till 16K winds and you can risk it till 18/20k winds but with more than that is of no use.

As your small jib has not enough power for a decent speed (and to have fun downwind) you would have to use a relatively big area of the main and that is a bad idea downwind. A strong genoa would have been a much better option and for strong I don't mean the dracon sails that come standard with the boat but the options that almost all brands have for more performant and stronger sails (sandwich pentex sails or mylar sails).

If the wind picks up, at 35K or more, alone or with your wife, you would have trouble to de-power the main and to bring it down. With the huge wind force on the sail it would not come down from the last reef unless you have rigged a line on top of the sail to do just that (almost nobody has it and it would not be easy anyway) and you will find that with a small jib and a too much main sail area out, the boat will be very hard to turn to the wind to take the main down, even with the engine at full power.

I had experienced some troubles with that and even if I was not in danger it was probably one of the two situations were I felt not very confortable with the handling of my boat:

I had come out of Morocco with a Force 7 warning but as I would have it downwind I sailed away, for crossing the Gibraltar strait heading to Portugal.

I has having fun with 25/35K wind with a 3 reefed main and a partially furled genoa on a bumpy sea when, near the Spanish coast, that Force 7 upgraded for a Force 9/10 with winds of about 50K or more (I confess that looking at the wind force was the last of my concerns).

That was not gradual but come just in some seconds and without warning. The sea state become nasty, kind of Colorado river if you know what I mean, the boat had too much main and I was not able to maintain the course downwind, the boat turning to the wind, and of course, I could not pull the boom in and complete the turn because with that wind I was afraid to capsize the boat.

With that sea state I was afraid to let the boat on autopilot and go forward to pull the sail down (remember that the boat was turning on the wind and was unable to maintain course and that the spreaders made impossible to de-power the main). Finally at the third or 4th attempt with the engine full on and pulling the boom in as much as I dared and deeply heeled I managed to complete that turn and put the boat against the wind to take down the main.

After that, with the main rolled to the size of a small towel I was able to purse in complete safety doing 9K downwind and having fun in that very agitated sea, with lots of power and complete control.

This talked a lesson to me: Never to be caught in strong winds with the main on and as a preventing measure, if sailing alone, over 25/30K to sail downwind only with a genoa, instead of a main and genoa.

Later I talked with some friends that are experienced solo sailors and all have passed by this situation and knew precisely what I mean and I guess that they had got their lesson too:D

This problem is just a bigger problem if you have only a small jib that would not give you the power to sail fast downwind with 25/30K without the main and you would have to use it also, so you cannot avoid this unless you have a small dedicated spinnaker to go downwind..

I guess that I am not going to be caught again in a situation like the one I have described, at least in a boat that was a 135% genoa because with that sail I can go downwind fast with a 25K wind, but with a non overlapping small sail I would not have enough front sail and I would have to use the mainsail, so I cannot avoid it unless I have a dedicated strong wind small asymmetric spinnaker.

That would make 6 sails against 4, I mean:

1 - dedicated storm jib, 2 - non overlapping front sail, 3 - mainsail, 4 - asymmetric spinnaker, 5 - code 0 and 6 - small asymmetric spinnaker for winds over 20K.

Against: 1 - dedicated storm jib, 2 - 135% or 150% genoa, 3 - mainsail and 4-Code D.

With the last configuration the need of a third reef would also be smaller.

Of course you will sail faster with the 6 sails, the 4 are only a compromise that will not give the same performance but if you are only going to have 4 sails on board the second choice is much more flexible and even more easy for short sailing.

Remember you have to go out of the cockpit to rig that asymmetric spinnaker for strong winds with 20/25K and the sea is not always nice with that wind.

On the other option the genoa is already in place and you will only need to furl and unfurl it from the cockpit. You will only need to go forward for mounting the storm sail if things really turn out really nasty.

Hey guys, remember I am talking only in what regards performance sailing.

With 25K winds Eric's boat will go probably over 8K downwind even with only that small non overlapping head-sail but I guess that he don't want to see me passing him downwind with a big genoa and doing 10K:D. So he has to put the turbo on and rig a proper asymmetric spinnaker, one that can take 25 to 35K wind and go away doing over 14K, or it has to sail with the main and the small front sail and it will be exposed to a sudden rise of wind force.

Not a problem if you have a crew and not a very frequent situation but one that will eventually happen if you sail enough time and are not afraid of winds over 25K.

Of course, in what regards mainstream cruisers the modern tendency of the smaller front sail and bigger main makes all the sense, specially with furling mainsails and that's why practically all modern cruisers have gone that way.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,837 ·
I'm not sure, if this boat has been posted yet...?
Gunfleet 43, was exhibited at the Southhampton Boatshow, a new venture for Richard Mathews (founder of Oyster Yachts), and designed by Tony Castro.
I find the design quite innovative, and not a repetition of features on other "new" designs, from the deck layout, helm (why hasn't anyone else thought of this?), and interior design. Also notable are the many opening portholes and hatches for good ventilation below, which so many new designs lack. Sail handling looks like the boat would be easy to single hand as well.
The Mathews/ Castro combo should also assure good sailing performance, can't wait for a review.....
13m Gunfleet 43 | Tony Castro Yacht Design
 
#1,841 · (Edited)
Hei Bjung, thanks for posting, but I guess that we don't have the same opinion:D I like the interior and the overall quality and that's all.

I saw this design some months back then it was on Southampton and Hamburg boat shows but as I did not like the boat I did not post about it.

I found the boat very ugly and with an old hull design although a modern bulbed keel.









That is a very British boat in a bad sense, I mean old design and ugly, one that only the English would like (are you English Bjung:D) but things are not what used to be anymore and even the English are making nice looking boats now. I bet than in two years they are going out of business and that Southerly are going to eat them alive.

That wheel even if nice it is not new. Arcona DS and Dehler 41 DS among others used them.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,840 · (Edited)
They are great and strong boats built in aluminium. They only make big boats, over 60ft and they are selling much more motor yachts than sailing yachts.

I find they have a superstructure unnecessarily high and I don't like their traditional models, I mean the design and the sailing, not the quality;)

But I like some, particularly this 100ft, a Tony de Castro 2002 design:





They are proposing a 90ft nice Frers design (not any built) that is not far in design from what is offered already from several other shipyards that have made already several boats, like Shipman (even if those are Carbon boats):







What they are selling is this:

- Jongert Luxury Super Yachts

And I guess it will be their future.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,843 · (Edited)
Comet 31

I have passed the new year's eve in Rome and among other things went to have a look at where the Romans keep their boats. Mostly they keep them out of the marina on the river banks, a really nice place and I found there this beauty:













That's a brand new Comet 31 s, so new that they don't have yet pictures in their site:D

The boat is absolutely gorgeous one of those things you just want to have and I bet that it is a lot of fun to sail. Look at this specs:

Loa. 10,44 m
Hull lenght 9,74 m
beam 3,48 m
Draft 1,90 m
weight 3.900 Kg
ballast std 1.090 kg

Engine 20 hp
Diesel tank 45 lt
Water tank 170 lt

Sails
Main 32.80 m2
Genoa 108% 24.00 m2
Gennaker 85.00 m2

Comar Yachts
CE
Category B-A
Price 69.000,00 €

The numbers look as good as the boat. With 28% of B/D ratio but with all the weight on a bulb at 1.90m and a lot of form stability this small animal can carry a lot of sail and a geenaker with 85m2 for 3900kg is a lot of sail:eek:

This beauty should plane very easily: a delightful rocket sailboat that seems to have the potential for coastal cruising and the most amazing is that they say that the boat is certified for offshore work (RCD A category). On a light boat of this size that means a very well designed boat and a seaworthy boat for its size with good stability parameters.



I really like this one;)
 
#4,689 ·
Comet 31s

And since we are talking about the new Jeanneau 349 and used the Comet 31 has reference let's have a new look at it. When I had posted about it (below) the boat was not even on the Comar site and had not been tested so now there is a lot more information available.

They seem to be very different boats in size (they are in weight 3900kg to 5350kg but on the interior space, length and beam they are closer even if Jeanneau calls to a a boat with a overall length and hull length of 10.34m, 9.97m a 349 and Comet, to a boat with 10.44 and 9.74m calls 31. In fact the difference on the hull length is just 23cm and on the overall lenght the Comet is bigger. Regarding beam and draft both boats are also very similar, being the beamier one the Comet but just for 4cms while the std draft while similar is a bit bigger on the Jeanneau (1.98 to 1.90).

I have passed the new year's eve in Rome and among other things went to have a look at where the Romans keep their boats. Mostly they keep them out of the marina on the river banks, a really nice place and I found there this beauty:









...

That's a brand new Comet 31 s, so new that they don't have yet pictures in their site:D

The boat is absolutely gorgeous one of those things you just want to have and I bet that it is a lot of fun to sail. Look at this specs:

Loa. 10,44 m
Hull lenght 9,74 m
beam 3,48 m
Draft 1,90 m
weight 3.900 Kg
ballast std 1.090 kg

Engine 20 hp
Diesel tank 45 lt
Water tank 170 lt

Sails
Main 32.80 m2
Genoa 108% 24.00 m2
Gennaker 85.00 m2

Comar Yachts
CE
Category B-A
Price 69.000,00 €

The numbers look as good as the boat. With 28% of B/D ratio but with all the weight on a bulb at 1.90m and a lot of form stability this small animal can carry a lot of sail and a geenaker with 85m2 for 3900kg is a lot of sail:eek:

This beauty should plane very easily: a delightful rocket sailboat that seems to have the potential for coastal cruising and the most amazing is that they say that the boat is certified for offshore work (RCD A category). On a light boat of this size that means a very well designed boat and a seaworthy boat for its size with good stability parameters.



I really like this one;)
It looked good to me and time proved that it looked good to many because the 31 quickly become the more successful boat (in what regards sells) on the Comet line. it also reveled itself as a very fast boat with cruising potential.

The boat testers have been very enthusiastic about the boat. For instance the Italian SVN (the translation is mine):

"Its fast, agile, very responsive on the tiller. It has a big interior volume and a cockpit that can take 5 with ease. On the interior it has space for 4, even for extensive cruising.

It is a solid boat...we find that it has an optimum price/quality relation.

It is a boat that points to the sportive sailor that wants to sail a lot. It is indicated for fast cruising, even solo and with 4 it can do well in regatta, specially in IRC."


http://www.comaryachts.it/images/Boats/CY SOLOVELA WEB 08 2012.pdf

This year I could have a good look at the boat again (there was one at the place where I keep my boat), and talk about it with one of the knowledgeable guys from Comar. Here are the photos I have taken:







As you can see the boat has an unusual transom, I mean it is one with all the beam brought back but faraway from the beam of a boat maximized for downwind sailing like the Pogo 30. The Pogo 30 has a beam of 3.70m and the Comet only 3.48m.

While the Pogo (and the boats that share that type of hull has a chine that limits heeling and maximizes it at a relatively low angle of heel this one has a rounded smooth lateral surface on the side of the transom. The explanation is that they wanted an easy boat downwind but without handicapping upwind performance. That soft surface allows the boat to hell more without the drag caused by the chine at considerable heel angles, taking advantage of the RM provided by the ballast. They said to me that it works and that the boat is a good upwind boat notwithstanding that type of transom that allows a more stable downwind ride that is very important to solo sailing.





The boat has a good interior with a big head but a galley smaller than the one on the Jeanneau. The first boats come with colorful galleys that did not make for a consensual opinion so they can offer those but offer also more discrete options that I think go better with the rest of the interior that is a nice and good quality one.









The price is a nice surprise since it goes in pair with the one of a First 30 and Comets used to be a lot more expensive than First.

Some more photos and a video:









 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top