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  #4251  
Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Pogo 40 S3

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
... and it seems something funny is going one because on this interview made 3 month ago a main Pogo shipyard man says that they are studding the new Pogo 40 S3 with Verdier

Regards

Paulo
My French isn't the best, but I thought I heard the gentleman from Structures say that Verdier is designing the Pogo 3 not the Pogo 40 S3, during the interview video you posted. He discussed the 40 S3 but I didn't hear him mention the designer for that one. And that would be consistent with what we've read and heard elsewhere.

After VPLP's success in the last Vendée I wouldn't be surprised if Verdier is the hot new designer du jour. Hard to argue with success. However, it will be interesting to me to see if Verdier incorporates any of the lessons learned from David Raison's scow 6.50 into his own design. Some of my friends who are more knowledgeable about the Mini Transat tell me that Raison's design would not be quite as competitive on the new route for 2013 as on the previous route of the last several years, to Bahia de Salvador. But 747 did very well on the Mini Fastnet, so who knows. It seems to me that in any condition featuring power reaching in breeze under spinnaker, the scow would be the weapon of choice. Watching the recent training video of the more conventional designs, in precisely those conditions, I noted the tendency to bury the bow quite a bit. This would not be as much of an issue with the scow design.

I guess we will wait and see. One thing we know is that Structures is not afraid to push the envelope, even in a market where they dominate (Pogo 2). Unless, of course, the Pogo 3 is slower than the Pogo 2. But I bet that won't happen.
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  #4252  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I had to postpone my flight a week due to unavoidable family problems.

I have a huge respect for Morvan and I never understood why he did never moved to the Open 60's. He is a great sailor. I remember a Transat where he was pursued at a short range and on the same course by Sam Davies ans Armel le Cleach for more than a week....and he maintained always about the same distance till win the race. Solid steel

Regards

Paulo
Very sorry to hear of the delay. I hope you are able to resolve the problems quickly and resume your cruising plans. Also hope that your family is all healthy and happy.

As for Morvan, given his longevity as a professional sailor, he must certainly know how to cultivate the necessry sponsor relationships necessary to move into IMOCA. Obviously, it is always about the money, but even more so with the 60's. Perhaps a different question is why not move into Classe 40? That would be the natural progression, to my mind.

To be honest, I admire all of these guys (and girls) who are pursuing their dreams racing sailboats. It is the one regret of my own life that I didn't make a similar choice when I was younger and had the opportunity. However, I can't complain too much because I have done an incredible amount of sailing / racing so far, and plan to do even more going forward.
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  #4253  
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Re: Pogo 40 S3

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
My French isn't the best, but I thought I heard the gentleman from Structures say that Verdier is designing the Pogo 3 not the Pogo 40 S3, during the interview video you posted. He discussed the 40 S3 but I didn't hear him mention the designer for that one. And that would be consistent with what we've read and heard elsewhere.

After VPLP's success in the last Vendée I wouldn't be surprised if Verdier is the hot new designer du jour. Hard to argue with success. However, it will be interesting to me to see if Verdier incorporates any of the lessons learned from David Raison's scow 6.50 into his own design. Some of my friends who are more knowledgeable about the Mini Transat tell me that Raison's design would not be quite as competitive on the new route for 2013 as on the previous route of the last several years, to Bahia de Salvador. But 747 did very well on the Mini Fastnet, so who knows. It seems to me that in any condition featuring power reaching in breeze under spinnaker, the scow would be the weapon of choice. Watching the recent training video of the more conventional designs, in precisely those conditions, I noted the tendency to bury the bow quite a bit. This would not be as much of an issue with the scow design.

I guess we will wait and see. One thing we know is that Structures is not afraid to push the envelope, even in a market where they dominate (Pogo 2). Unless, of course, the Pogo 3 is slower than the Pogo 2. But I bet that won't happen.
Your French should not be that bad because you are right. he is talking about the Mini racer that is going to be designed by Verdier. After that he says that they are making a S3 version of the class 40 for the Transquadra....but they fail to mention the designer

Anyway the Pogo 2, the mini class racer was also a Finot/Conq design...and that has changed for Verdier. Will the same happens with the new Class 40? Anyway it is strange their persistence in not naming the designer.

Bon, and with 3 months delay some "news" about the Pogo 30. Almost 4 months ago, only over the drawings they had sold already 30 Pogo 30, 5 for racing the next Transquadra and 25 for fast cruising.

The ones for the Transquadra will have a fixed aluminum mast while all the others will have the removable carbon mast. I can only imagine a reason for the one used mostly for racing to have a aluminium mast: The IRC number with a Carbon mast will be over 1.051, the Max allowed.

So, we will only have to wait a year to know if the little one will be faster on a Transat than a JPK 10.10 or a A35. Off course, on the next one we will have also the new Jeanneau 3600 and the JPK 1080....it is going to be a very hot one.

Regards

Paulo
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  #4254  
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Transquadra

and talking about the Transquadra, a favorite solo/duo race of mine, one for Amateurs and not for racing boats.

Lets have a look at the rules to see if I can convert some more to this race that has mechanisms to assure the competitiveness, to rule out slow boats or racing boats, professional sailors, young guns looking to become professionals and to assure a big overall competitiveness. Quite the contrary of what happens on the OSTAR.

This seems simple but it took many years to perfect the rules to make it the great race that is today.

Regarding boats:

For boats built after June 1996, CE Class A certification is needed.

For boats built before June 1996, a STIX and AVS stability certificate corresponding to Class A will be required.

Must have a hull length of between 8.5 and 12.5 metres

Must be fitted with a fixed motor, able to propel the boat through calm water at a minimum of 5 knots.

Must comply with the provisions of the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations, category 1

Each boat must be equipped with:
a satellite locator and tracker, supplied by the organisers.
a storm sail as defined ... OSR Rules, category 1.
a satellite telephone, the number of which is to be communicated to the Satellite telephones must be kept on standby throughout the duration of the races.

Each skipper must present, before 31 May 2014, the valid IRC certificate for his boat. ...TCC permitted: 0.949 < TCC < 1.051

Change of sails: no change of sails, for any reason whatsoever, will be accepted between the two races. ..Number of spis authorised: fitting a 4th spi, without a rating increase, is not allowed.


Maximum number of boats allowed:
The maximum number of registered boats is limited to 100, solo and double combined, counting the participants in the TRANSQUADRA-ATLANTIQUE and TRANSQUADRA MEDITERRANEE together.


Simple and effective


The skippers/crew:

Entry in LA TRANSQUADRA ATLANTIQUE and LA TRANSQUADRA MEDITERRANEE 2014-2015 is by personal invitation.

Competitors interested in taking part should send an INVITATION REQUEST, accompanied by a document giving details of their offshore sailing experience, in racing or cruising, and their sailing experience in general.

Applicants who have not already taken part in a Transquadra race or similar sailing event must have competed in an offshore race accredited by FFVoile of AT LEAST 250 nautical miles.

All competitors must be forty years old by 31 December 2014 at the latest.

Admissibility will be decided in accordance with ISAF Rule 76

Non-professionalism:

The competitors (skipper and crew) must sail for leisure purposes only. The competitors declare that they are not professional sailors and are not being paid to race in the Transquadra 2014-2015.

Over a period of 24 months before the first Transquadra 2014-2015 race, the competitors declare that they have not been paid to:
• Take part in a regatta.
• Prepare their boat.
• Allow their image or their name to be used in relation to their sailing performances, their racing results or their reputation as sailors.

Definitions:
To be paid: income received by a regatta entrant, whether employed or self-employed, bonuses, donations, any direct or indirect financial benefit, other than personal expenses.
Personal expenses: income received by a regatta entrant, allocated to the payment of charges for entry fees, travel, accommodation and meals, related to, and necessary for, participation in a specific event. Contributions from sponsors to the equipment of the boat are considered as personal expenses. ...

ROUTING
In accordance with Rule 41 of the RRS “Outside Help”, help with sailing, from an external source, and of a personalised nature, is prohibited.
N.B.: the consultation or receipt of wind charts, or of any other weather charts available on the internet, where such charts are universally available, does not constitute outside help of a personalised nature.




and that's it. Being only accepted inscriptions by invitation has to do with not allow crazy guys to take part but only experienced sailors but not to the point of racing professionals (and in France there are a huge number).

If someone has to criticize something it will be the 40 year limit to enter the race. I understand the intention of ruling out young guns not yet professionals but on a route to be but then some of the best solo racers have more than 40 year's old and being over 40 does not rule out ex professionals that are more or less "retired" now and that are slightly over 40.

If you want to have a better look, here is the notice of race for the next event:

http://www.transquadra.com/documenta...OF%20RACE..pdf
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Last edited by PCP; 06-09-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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  #4255  
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Grand Surprise

a boat we never talked here about and one that is a favorite among French racing sailors. The Archambault story is linked to that name, first the Surprise, than the Grand Surprise...a boat with some years that still goes fast. As all the other A, a Michel Joubert & Bernard Nivelt design, a very nice boat.

http://www.archambault-boats.eu/imag...EBROCHURE1.jpg



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  #4256  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Also sorry to hear about your delay, Paulo. And hope you will soon be able to set sail, knowing everybody and everything is perfectly OK.

I also follow the Solitaire du Figaro quite closely. That even living solo sailing legends such as “le professeur” Michel Desjoyeaux have been set back that far in the first leg very well illustrates that this is a extremely complicated and very tactical race. So I very much enjoy all the expert analyses!

Finot-Conq has been the dedicated Structures NA bureau since the Pogo 2 but now Guillaume Verdier has been assigned to conceive the Pogo 3. Has this altered the relationship between the Finot group and Structures, explaining why the NA signing for the S3 is so badly advertised? I don’t know but it was certainly a very honest mistake to think it was also Guillaume Verdier, Robelz.

I also wonder if the Pogo 3 will be another major step forward in the 6.50 class, Mr. Pelicano. Because if it is, after the strong dominance of the Pogo 2 I agree this could lead to a “de facto” monotype class, still apart from the prototypes of course. And given the clear successes of David Raisons’ scow-like “747 – Magnum” prototype, will Structures dare to introduce such a concept in the 6.50 series? Honestly, I have no clue. Except that I think they like their boats to be elegant, at least in profile . But they will probably try to keep this a mystery as long as possible.

I agree the Pogo 30 is not cheap, certainly not including all the options. Trust me, no Pogo is . But knowing and having seen how these boats are built and equipped, I’m still convinced they’re good value for money. I’d better since I sail one myself , but even the actual second hand market seems to confirm this impression (no, ours is not for sale yet ).

But this time Structures completely changed its pricing policy. Until now, their cruisers were always advertised with a canting keel and carbon mast (10.50, 12.50, 50’). Although both the 10.50 and 12.50 have also been built with a fixed keel and the 10.50 has also been offered with an aluminium mast, carbon being less essential because the 10.50 has no fathead mainsail and thus always carries a backstay (except the “one off” 10.50 Jean-Marie Finot ordered for himself, which even features a wing mast). But the others were all “optional” (but of course cheaper) designs.

Although the 30’ is first meant for the cruising market, now they clearly also want to attract racing candidates, especially for the Transquadra. I think that’s why they now advertise the fixed keel version in the first place, because of the better performance. And the aluminium mast without fat headed main, because as Paulo stated very accurately the rating would otherwise exceed the limitations for this race. Meanwhile 5 have been ordered in the "standard" Transquadra configuration and 25 with the swinging keel, carbon mast and fathead main options.

For cruising purposes I think these 25 future owners are perfectly right. It would be a pity to deprive yourself of the better performance in light wind conditions (much bigger main) and extra stability when it gets rough (much lighter mast). So for someone who doesn’t have to bother about rating, I personally think the Pogo 30’ deserves his place next to e.g. the First 30’.

Finally, a personal feeling about the Transquadra orientation of the 30’: Christian Bouroullec, the founder and actual director of Structures, winner of the 1999 Mini Transat (now Transat 6.50) on the first Pogo, seems to like racing again with his most recent babies. He crewed for the last ARC on the first Pogo 50’ (4th in real time) and especially for the last Quebec-St.-Malo race on a Pogo 40 S2 (1st). I would not be surprised to see his name on the list for the next Transquadra…

Best regards,

Eric
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  #4257  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
...

Finally, a personal feeling about the Transquadra orientation of the 30’: Christian Bouroullec, the founder and actual director of Structures, winner of the 1999 Mini Transat (now Transat 6.50) on the first Pogo, seems to like racing again with his most recent babies. He crewed for the last ARC on the first Pogo 50’ (4th in real time) and especially for the last Quebec-St.-Malo race on a Pogo 40 S2 (1st). I would not be surprised to see his name on the list for the next Transquadra…
..
Hi Eric,

I knew about that great result on the ARC crewing a client's boat but I did not knew about the Quebec-St Malo, maybe because he was not the skipper:

Halvard MABIRE et Miranda MERRON ? Événement de voile de Québec à St-Malo | Transat Québec St-Malo

Anyway the have made a brillant job beaten the one that is now probably the best 40class racer, Joerg RIECHERS. Curiously on the Joerg boat we will find out as crew another non professional racer, this time a boat designer and as Bouroullec, a former racer: Sam Manuard the designer of the Seascape 27

TipTopToo, minitransat 6.50 et autres voiliers de croisires modernes

That's fantastic the sail passion of these guys that even had changed live still love racing and can do it still at highest level. And they are not the only ones, I would not be surprised to find there JPK too

Regards

Paulo
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Sorry about the pictures!

They say you guys are looking too much to my pictures

They ask me to pay what was free, I mean the photos on photobucket. This as been fun, I had spent a lot of time with it but I will not pay for it.

They say they will restore bandwidth in 15 days...we will see, anyway I will be gone next week...for some months.

In meanwhile i can still post movies so look at the Boat project, a boat made with recycled wood racing on the "Around the Island race":






we talked here already about this interesting project. Son't remember? Lool here it is a very interesting story and project:

The Boat Project
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

My concerns about Morvan running into light conditions in the Figaro turned out to be prophetic, and he became a plaything of the gods as the wind vanished and the entire fleet compressed. In desperation (I imagine) he made a stab out to the northwest, looking for breeze, but then immediately joined the rest of the fleet in dashing back inshore, while the Jackal (Armel Le Cléac'h) took advantage and snuck into the lead. Now it is a battle to the very end as the breeze is up and the dash to the finish is underway.

Yacht racing: not for the faint of heart.

By contrast, I was able to get out on an Express 37 yesterday afternoon for some casual PHRF racing out of Cedar Point YC, on Long Island Sound. Conditions were perfect, with about 8-14 knots - initially from the south, but clocking east midway through race one - and about 70F (21C). It was a mixed bag in the spinnaker class, with another Express 37, a J/105, an Evelyn 32, a Wyliecat and a couple others. Due to our very impressive upwind and downwind speed - particularly on the second windward leg of each race - we were able to score two wins for the day. Interestingly, we averaged .30 knot VMG higher in both races than the second place boat, a J/105. As a nice change of pace for me I got to do the mast position instead of my customary bow spot. Good bowman aboard so, of course, there was zero drama on the front of the boat.
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Re: Grand Surprise

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a boat we never talked here about and one that is a favorite among French racing sailors. The Archambault story is linked to that name, first the Surprise, than the Grand Surprise...a boat with some years that still goes fast. As all the other A, a Michel Joubert & Bernard Nivelt design, a very nice boat.
At the risk of appearing overly critical and not appreciating it when people take the time to video their sailing adventures, I have to say that the camera reveals much room for improvement aboard Gernimo. In no particular order:
  1. Crew doesn't hike hard upwind.
  2. Crew slow moving across the boat and assuming hiking position during and after tacks
  3. Pit person in poor position on spinnaker hoist to support mast person - she is tailing right up against the rope clutch instead of back near the cabin top winch.
  4. Too many people on the foredeck during the spinnaker set and gybe, including one guy just sitting in front of the mast
  5. What? No spinnaker downwind in 23 knots? That seems overly cautious during a race.
  6. Crew out of position prior to the start - someone is down below while they're in sequence and weight positioning is all over the place as they tack onto starboard to make their approach.

I could probably go on but I would recommend some coaching to take it to the next level.

Couldn't really tell much about the Grand Surprise itself, except that it looks quick in a breeze (and would be even quicker if the crew hikes hard and gets their weight properly positioned and sets the spinnaker).
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