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  #4381  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

America's cuP?!?!?!?!?!?

is that still around? really? oh wow! Thought it was won last time or two or three in a court, so folks do really sail in boats for the trophy?!?!/!/! wowowow
There is a race in one of the GL's between the US and Canada using Farr 40's. A race that is a LOT more interesting. As is the race held every few yrs out of the NYYC with the Club Swan 42's! Those two are worth looking at frankly, AC is long gone for being worth looking at frankly!

Marty
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  #4382  
Old 08-05-2013
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Americas's Cup

Hi Marty,

I am sure that race you talk about is interesting (maybe you can post about it) but the America's cup is raced on the fastest and most innovative boats in the planet. The reason they have screw up has nothing to do with the boats or even the format but with bad management and costs control. I dare to say that also with the location.

I know S Francisco bay is one of the best spots for sailing but in what regards public interest the Americans are way off in what regards sailing. If those races were in Europe I am quite sure the interest for them would triplicate.

Look at the boats and the spectacle:



The sad story is that in any top world high level event, racing or any other, money and cost management versus profit has to be a prime if not the prime concern and that's where they missed completely. No money no show.

I would say: what a shame...for sailing sake they did not have the right to fu*k up.

Regards

Paulo
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  #4383  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hey Paulo -

I'm an American and I'm from San Francisco, which is, as you note, a superb place to sail. But it is also the case that there has never been any public interest in yacht racing in SF despite the long, rich history of events going back to the 1930's. I raced on the Bay for years and none of my non-sailing friends and acquaintences had any idea such things took place there, even when they could look out on the water and see hundreds of boats.

But, as I've argued before, Americans in general don't care about yacht racing for all sorts of reasons, most of which are good ones. Let me list a few:

1. It is remote from their daily life experience, unlike the sports they grow up with.

2. It is technical and difficult to understand for uninitiated viewers.

3. Unless the breeze is cranking - and sometimes even when it is - it's not very exciting to watch. Neither is chess and nobody watches that either... except chess players.

4. The public perception is that it's a rich man's game - and in the case of the Americas Cup, that's totally correct - and Americans prefer more populist sports. Ironically, sailing is perhaps the only sport where amateurs can compete against professionals and Olympians on a regular basis, and for not much money - e.g., Melges 24, J/70, Lasers, 505s, etc.

The problem with this iteration of the Cup is that Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts imagined they could do what nobody else has ever done - turn sailboat racing into a commercially viable spectator sport comparable to NASCAR or F1 or something. That there was no actual demand for such a thing - i.e., no market niche crying out to be filled - didn't seem to occur to men with egos bigger than the AC72s, zipping along on SF Bay to no effect.

By contrast, the Extreme 40 multihull series has been very successful in doing what it set out to do - provide exciting, low-cost, spectator-friendly racing on a global tour. With a bit more investment in media, the Extreme 40 series would be nearly perfect. I also expect the Vendée Globe to benefit from the increased media investment it will get in the next iterations.

So, when all is said and done, the best thing that could happen to the AC is for Team Emirates New Zealand to win it and take it away from the madness of Larry Ellison and like-minded capitalists, and return it to a focus on competitive international sailing.

Ciao!

MrP
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  #4384  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

THe race needed to be on the east coast where it was held for what 100 yrs or there abouts. Then get the thing out of the courts.

Yes the two races I mentioned use "oolder" maybe not as high tech. BUT, from a pure sailing standpoint, both series of boats have boats designed the same etc, granted 1d racing, but the crews them selves win or lose the race, not how much money you are willing to put into the boat etc. Hence why I liked the 12m and the most recent AC monohull boats. Multi's would work, and should work. But the ego's of the folks in charge need to be taken out of the picture. Then again, maybe it was like that in the 20's and 30's also, but at least then, I also have not heard about needing to take things to court to decide the style of boat etc. Something to be said about one club per say holding the cup, deciding the rules etc.

Marty
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
THe race needed to be on the east coast where it was held for what 100 yrs or there abouts. Then get the thing out of the courts.

Yes the two races I mentioned use "oolder" maybe not as high tech. BUT, from a pure sailing standpoint, both series of boats have boats designed the same etc, granted 1d racing, but the crews them selves win or lose the race, not how much money you are willing to put into the boat etc. Hence why I liked the 12m and the most recent AC monohull boats. Multi's would work, and should work. But the ego's of the folks in charge need to be taken out of the picture. Then again, maybe it was like that in the 20's and 30's also, but at least then, I also have not heard about needing to take things to court to decide the style of boat etc. Something to be said about one club per say holding the cup, deciding the rules etc.

Marty
The odd thing about the current AC is that the AC45 racing has been everything the AC72 racing hasn't been. Lots of teams competing, great racing, pretty decent video, plenty of crowd interest. I didn't catch the event when it came to Newport but I've been told it worked really well at that venue.

But if it was only about sailing - as opposed to rich men's egos - it wouldn't be the Americas Cup.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I suppose the AC has ALWAYS been a rich man's ego trip to a degree. The AC 45's would probably be the better boat to use. More teams involved, better and more races, much like it was with the 12m and AC cup monohull boats. Similar to what they are doing to the volvo race, making the boats slightly smaller in length, so that more teams can reasonably compete etc. That is when it get interesting for fans etc, and makes them want to watch.

Marty
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

"I suppose the AC has ALWAYS been a rich man's ego trip to a degree. "

Yes Marty. Have you not been paying attention.?

Vanderbilt, Lipton not exactly just good old boys.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

vanderbuilt? Lipton? How about rockerfellow? Didn't he join that group upon occasion.....

At one time a millionares game, now one has to be worth a billion to a trillion to play the game. Worth looking at, but not sure the toys are something I can even get around my head! at least with the Volvo race, I can see the boat styles coming down to the lesser folks like us. The AC72 cats, kinda like the unlimited hydros on lk washington last weekend! At least they have a way to keep the low ball$$$ folks competing with the higher $$ teams. so from a fan stand point, much better to watch.

marty
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  #4389  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi everybody,
You often ask for numbers from interesting sailboats. Opium 39 has been mentioned to some extent on this thread earlier and I have also given my impressions of my own Opium.

We had an interesting sail in Kattegat from Grenå to Anholt the other day. It was rather light wind, 9-10 knots, so we hoisted the gennaker despite rather sharp wind angles. Our new gennaker is 130 sqm and with a very full cut for maximum downwind speed. It is on a Selden GX top down free furler. I was rather surprised to be able to reach 60-65 AWA/100-105 TWA and logging 7 knots through water with this sail, in full control as usually with the twin rudders. Main was mostly creating the slot and the windex was showing almost beating directions. This went on for almost 4 hours so we arriwed way ahead of all other boats heading for Anholt, as usual.

Anders
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Americas'cup

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Hey Paulo -

I'm an American and I'm from San Francisco, which is, as you note, a superb place to sail. But it is also the case that there has never been any public interest in yacht racing in SF despite the long, rich history of events going back to the 1930's. I raced on the Bay for years and none of my non-sailing friends and acquaintences had any idea such things took place there, even when they could look out on the water and see hundreds of boats.

But, as I've argued before, Americans in general don't care about yacht racing for all sorts of reasons, most of which are good ones. Let me list a few:

1. It is remote from their daily life experience, unlike the sports they grow up with.

2. It is technical and difficult to understand for uninitiated viewers.

3. Unless the breeze is cranking - and sometimes even when it is - it's not very exciting to watch. Neither is chess and nobody watches that either... except chess players.

4. The public perception is that it's a rich man's game - and in the case of the Americas Cup, that's totally correct - and Americans prefer more populist sports. Ironically, sailing is perhaps the only sport where amateurs can compete against professionals and Olympians on a regular basis, and for not much money - e.g., Melges 24, J/70, Lasers, 505s, etc.

The problem with this iteration of the Cup is that Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts imagined they could do what nobody else has ever done - turn sailboat racing into a commercially viable spectator sport comparable to NASCAR or F1 or something. That there was no actual demand for such a thing - i.e., no market niche crying out to be filled - didn't seem to occur to men with egos bigger than the AC72s, zipping along on SF Bay to no effect.

By contrast, the Extreme 40 multihull series has been very successful in doing what it set out to do - provide exciting, low-cost, spectator-friendly racing on a global tour. With a bit more investment in media, the Extreme 40 series would be nearly perfect. I also expect the Vendée Globe to benefit from the increased media investment it will get in the next iterations.

So, when all is said and done, the best thing that could happen to the AC is for Team Emirates New Zealand to win it and take it away from the madness of Larry Ellison and like-minded capitalists, and return it to a focus on competitive international sailing.

Ciao!

MrP
and yes, it can be made in a great top world wide sports event even if I doubt that it can be happen in America. In fact it was turned in that already by the guy from Allinghi. I have saw the two last editions in Valecia and I can tell you the last monohull edition was a very popular world wide event. Valencia was crowded with sailing fans and the races had an huge internet and tv coverage.

Things start to go wrong with the last edition with the money race for the ultimate racing machine. I have also been there and I can tell you that everything that was gained in making sailing a top world wide event was lost. It was a sad edition with 1/10 of the audience of the previous one.

I love those big wing cats, nothing wrong with them but if they do not manage to find a way to make an open race with lots of participants with equal chances of winning, then it will never be a success and for having lot's of boats they have to assure that the event is commercially viable. I mean sponsors have to pay for everything and in the end it should have a surplus of money to be distributed. That's what happens with F1 or football or MotoGP and that is not what happens with this edition of America's cup that is clearly not economically viable, I mean, somebody has to be paying because no way sponsorship is covering it and that is the main problem with it.

EH EH, i have internet on the boat and I am posting after having sailed 70Nm in less than 9 hours, anchored in a very nice spot (only boat here) and after having a superb meal on the waterfront restaurant. Life is good

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 08-06-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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