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  #4391  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi everybody,
You often ask for numbers from interesting sailboats. Opium 39 has been mentioned to some extent on this thread earlier and I have also given my impressions of my own Opium.

We had an interesting sail in Kattegat from GrenŚ to Anholt the other day. It was rather light wind, 9-10 knots, so we hoisted the gennaker despite rather sharp wind angles. Our new gennaker is 130 sqm and with a very full cut for maximum downwind speed. It is on a Selden GX top down free furler. I was rather surprised to be able to reach 60-65 AWA/100-105 TWA and logging 7 knots through water with this sail, in full control as usually with the twin rudders. Main was mostly creating the slot and the windex was showing almost beating directions. This went on for almost 4 hours so we arriwed way ahead of all other boats heading for Anholt, as usual.

Anders
Nice to hear from you and your Opium.

Regarding my Comet 41 and knowing the boat better now I am satisfied too. I was looking for a boat with a very good upwind performance and a boat that could sail with light winds. The boat does both things very well. With this boat you can really make way going dead against the wind tacking your way. Lot's of boats here and easy to see the difference. For the typical Benetau charter I would say I point almost 10 degrees higher (the new sails also help) and go faster.

Regarding light wind I can do 5/5.5K with 8K apparent wind. That should be about wind speed. Regarding downwind sailing this is not a planning boat at least solo sailed by me with an occasional help from my wife but it is very easy to go over 8K, even with light medium winds and the boat can maintain very easily average speeds over 7K.

In fact when I go over 9/10K I reef otherwise my wife gets scared. I need to have my son around to find out the boat potential and that is not happened yet.

Regards

Paulo
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  #4392  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Paulo,
I am still catching up on the thread after last winters focus on our other big interest, snowboarding. I have read some posts from you regarding the Comet and they all make sense to me. In fact I think you are reaching very similar numbers as we we did with our previous Dehler 43CWS.

I guess I am fortunate with a wife that likes wind, waves and speed but I think one still needs the like of Erics son "the weight watcher" in his Pogo 12.50, and even that boats missing cabin doors to reach level 2 and planing speeds in a crusing boat fully loaded with gear for a summer holiday spent at anchor. Nevertheless nice to beat all normal crusing boats despite taking long breakfasts.

Rgds,
Anders
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  #4393  
Old 08-07-2013
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Comet 41s - Dehler 43 CWS

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi Paulo,
I am still catching up on the thread after last winters focus on our other big interest, snowboarding. I have read some posts from you regarding the Comet and they all make sense to me. In fact I think you are reaching very similar numbers as we we did with our previous Dehler 43CWS.

I guess I am fortunate with a wife that likes wind, waves and speed but I think one still needs the like of Erics son "the weight watcher" in his Pogo 12.50, and even that boats missing cabin doors to reach level 2 and planing speeds in a crusing boat fully loaded with gear for a summer holiday spent at anchor. Nevertheless nice to beat all normal crusing boats despite taking long breakfasts.

Rgds,
Anders
Hi Anders,

I believe you are a bit off in what regards numbers and the Comet 41s and the Dehler 43CWS. The 43 CWS was from the cruising line of yachts from Dehler and a relatively slow boat, compared with a performance cruiser.

In fact regarding going upwind with light winds if you look to the ORCi certificate from the Dehler 44 (a fast performance cruiser or cruiser racer as it is commonly named and much faster then the old 43 cruiser) and compare with the ORCi file from the Comet 41s you will find that the numbers are close:

Best beat angle for the Dehler 44 - 44.8. Best beat angle for the Comet 41s - 43.4. VMG for the Dehler 44 - 3.75. Velocity make good for the Comet 41s - 3.60.

That's quite good for the Comet since we are comparing a 41ft performance cruiser with a 44ft performance cruiser and a fast one.

Regarding your boat, the Opium 39, I don't know exactly what is the IRC rating but I know it is smaller than 1051 since it is the max allowed for entering the Transquadra and as you know on the last edition one raced there. The Comet 41s has a IRC rating of 1099 and even if I believe that in some points of sail and with some conditions the Opium 39 will be faster, it seems obvious that it will not be faster in all conditions, quite the contrary.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 08-07-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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  #4394  
Old 08-07-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

My "interesting boat" is now ready for paint. Stripes have been taped off and we are ready to go.
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Interesting Sailboats-sliver-bow-1.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-sliver-stern-1.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-sliver-house-1.jpg  
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  #4395  
Old 08-07-2013
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ORCi world championship 2013 - M37

I and Mr Pelicano had talked about the ORCI world championship and about the boats that were racing there but not a word about results.

The winner in the Class B (the one that is normally won by cruiser racers) was a NM 38s, a beautiful boat that we had already talked about:

N M Yachts

Truth is that a NM37 that was fighting for victory was penalized over a story of 100kg of ballast on the bilges!!! and they where so pissed up that they retire from the race.

A mention to a Comet 38 s that was very near to the victory (2th).

On the Class A the TP52 dominated and the only cruiser racer (versus racing boats) that managed to stay on the 10 first was a very fast Dehler 44.

ADRIA FERRIES

ADRIA FERRIES

Some good reading:

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/ORCi-W...r-day-1/111193

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/ORCi-W...crowned/111356

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/...nal-day/111396
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Last edited by PCP; 08-07-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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  #4396  
Old 08-08-2013
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Re: Comet 41s - Dehler 43 CWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi Anders,

I believe you are a bit off in what regards numbers and the Comet 41s and the Dehler 43CWS. The 43 CWS was from the cruising line of yachts from Dehler and a relatively slow boat, compared with a performance cruiser.

In fact regarding going upwind with light winds if you look to the ORCi certificate from the Dehler 44 (a fast performance cruiser or cruiser racer as it is commonly named and much faster then the old 43 cruiser) and compare with the ORCi file from the Comet 41s you will find that the numbers are close:

Best beat angle for the Dehler 44 - 44.8. Best beat angle for the Comet 41s - 43.4. VMG for the Dehler 44 - 3.75. Velocity make good for the Comet 41s - 3.60.

That's quite good for the Comet since we are comparing a 41ft performance cruiser with a 44ft performance cruiser and a fast one.

Regarding your boat, the Opium 39, I don't know exactly what is the IRC rating but I know it is smaller than 1051 since it is the max allowed for entering the Transquadra and as you know on the last edition one raced there. The Comet 41s has a IRC rating of 1099 and even if I believe that in some points of sail and with some conditions the Opium 39 will be faster, it seems obvious that it will not be faster in all conditions, quite the contrary.

Regards

Paulo
Hi Paulo,
What I was trying to say is that your boat seems to give you the performance you where looking for, as the 43 CWS did mostly for us too.

And that the Opium up that one level in most conditions despite all vacation loads, not always with a big margin in speed, or non at all, but in those important for us and in overall control and comfort.

Regards,
Anders
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Last edited by JAndersB; 08-08-2013 at 04:30 AM.
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  #4397  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

One other reflection I did while going through the last 200 pages is that even if pure facts can say a lot about a boats performance my own experience says me that, besides all other estetic and other aspects, also hull shape and other under water aspects are important. On both the Azzurree 40 and recent RM1260 videos the boats are standing on their noses when beating or pressed hard. This my old Oceanis 40-2007 also did, which lifted the rudder out of the water.

One of the best aspects of the Opium 39 is that it, for some reason I can not figure out, do not do this. The more it is pressed the more it lifts is nose out or remains level, also when beating. If reaching it is like my windsurfer, running more and more on the aft quarter and on the leeward rudder (=windsurfing fin). Even if this is still at merely 9-10 knots it is a very crisp and enjoyable feeling, as I said, like getting a windsurfer or motorboat going.

Another nice aspect, even if this is not what it is designed for and also rather bad at in light wind, is running dead downwind. We started our vacation sail with a 90NM run dead downwind along the Swedish west coats. In the night before it blew 43 knots and when we left it blew a constant 20-26 knots and swell. We poled out the genoa and had full main and remained like this for the whole trip and did not have to touch a sheet. My wife and son baked down below, slept on the cockpit floor (so wide it can sleep 2 easily), made a steak in the owen etc, all the time with a sense of no problems. The boat did around 9-9,5 knots with ocassional small surfs upp to 11 knots but as we where going dead downwind that was it. Boat fully loaded with 3 bikes, windsurfing and 3 kite kits, inlines, kickboards and all other stuff for a summer afloat. I think my old Dehler 43 CWS would have given similar speed but with much more rolling motion.

Regards,
Anders
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  #4398  
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American sail racing...nice movie.

American Sailors Pilot Episode from Black Lake Studio & Press on Vimeo.

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  #4399  
Old 08-09-2013
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Re: Opium 39

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
One other reflection I did while going through the last 200 pages is that even if pure facts can say a lot about a boats performance my own experience says me that, besides all other estetic and other aspects, also hull shape and other under water aspects are important. On both the Azzurree 40 and recent RM1260 videos the boats are standing on their noses when beating or pressed hard. This my old Oceanis 40-2007 also did, which lifted the rudder out of the water.

One of the best aspects of the Opium 39 is that it, for some reason I can not figure out, do not do this. The more it is pressed the more it lifts is nose out or remains level, also when beating. If reaching it is like my windsurfer, running more and more on the aft quarter and on the leeward rudder (=windsurfing fin). Even if this is still at merely 9-10 knots it is a very crisp and enjoyable feeling, as I said, like getting a windsurfer or motorboat going.

Another nice aspect, even if this is not what it is designed for and also rather bad at in light wind, is running dead downwind. We started our vacation sail with a 90NM run dead downwind along the Swedish west coats. In the night before it blew 43 knots and when we left it blew a constant 20-26 knots and swell. We poled out the genoa and had full main and remained like this for the whole trip and did not have to touch a sheet. My wife and son baked down below, slept on the cockpit floor (so wide it can sleep 2 easily), made a steak in the owen etc, all the time with a sense of no problems. The boat did around 9-9,5 knots with ocassional small surfs upp to 11 knots but as we where going dead downwind that was it. Boat fully loaded with 3 bikes, windsurfing and 3 kite kits, inlines, kickboards and all other stuff for a summer afloat. I think my old Dehler 43 CWS would have given similar speed but with much more rolling motion.

Regards,
Anders
Anders,
I seem to recall from a previous post, that you have the swingkeel version. Can the Opium be sailed with its keel partially retracted, or is it an all or nothing deal as with Pogo?
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  #4400  
Old 08-09-2013
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Re: ORCi world championship 2013 - M37

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I and Mr Pelicano had talked about the ORCI world championship and about the boats that were racing there but not a word about results.

The winner in the Class B (the one that is normally won by cruiser racers) was a NM 38s, a beautiful boat that we had already talked about:

N M Yachts

Truth is that a NM37 that was fighting for victory was penalized over a story of 100kg of ballast on the bilges!!! and they where so pissed up that they retire from the race.

A mention to a Comet 38 s that was very near to the victory (2th).

On the Class A the TP52 dominated and the only cruiser racer (versus racing boats) that managed to stay on the 10 first was a very fast Dehler 44
I believe it was Jason Ker, in another ORCi video Paulo posted, who noted that the dominance of the TP52's was more a reflection of the fact the top teams are sailing them and have many years spent in optimizing the boats, than a function of their design. I take this to mean that the Dehler 44 is a very competitive design that could easily have won if the top teams were sailing them (not to take anything away from the crew of the one that did well).

If memory serves, this was the second year the same NM38 won this class in the ORCi Championships, so clearly it is well prepared and very well sailed.

MrP
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