Interesting Sailboats - Page 444 - SailNet Community
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post #4431 of 6763 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

[QUOTE]factor used to promote "spectator interest"/QUOTE]

Not that I agree with some sports salaries these days, nor am I a fan of any team of anything right now, but creating general spectator interest/excitement and growing viewership comes before growing funding and then increasing participation in sailing. Safety development is key especially when pushing limits, and as in F1 and NASCAR, precious lives will be lost, as we have in ocean racing (Low Speed Chase), cruising (Nina), and the recent AC (Simpson), all discussed in Sailnet.

To me, it was actually the VOR/ Extreme 40 circuit that untapped potential of multiple media in sailing sport. (How many of us spent the whole season online playing our own "virtual VOR?") This is how new players like Puma put (and apparently lost) a lot of money in the game, which then translated to consumer products, interest, etc. The Xtreme 40 circuit was all about promoting bay/stadium shows and promoting destinations as well. I'm just thinking it's very good for the sport that they're catching on to the auto industry/motorsport tools and strategies.

Sorry for my extended off topic here, hadn't posted in a while, and it's a provoking topic, especially when I used to follow (and do my bit of) motorsport too.

Paulo, glad it was just a scratch!

Best to all,

Hans
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post #4432 of 6763 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

[QUOTE=JAndersB;1070805]One other reflection I did while going through the last 200 pages is that even if pure facts can say a lot about a boats performance my own experience says me that, besides all other estetic and other aspects, also hull shape and other under water aspects are important. On both the Azzurree 40 and recent RM1260 videos the boats are standing on their noses when beating or pressed hard. This my old Oceanis 40-2007 also did, which lifted the rudder out of the water.

One of the best aspects of the Opium 39 is that it, for some reason I can not figure out, do not do this. The more it is pressed the more it lifts is nose out or remains level, also when beating. If reaching it is like my windsurfer, running more and more on the aft quarter and on the leeward rudder (=windsurfing fin). Even if this is still at merely 9-10 knots it is a very crisp and enjoyable feeling, as I said, like getting a windsurfer or motorboat going.

I cannot agree more with JAndersB on the observation of poor balance that the RM1260 displays on a hard beat. Toby Hodges makes the same observation on his test. And the RM1060 seems to behave the same. I think that after following design numbers and the first launch of the RM on this same thread, expecting a rocket-performance cruising game-changer, excitement seemed to disappear very quickly. I wonder if it's just weight distribution of equipment, or simply rig tuning, but it's true that when I see them going upwind, I can only imagine the drag created by that dug-in bow, and it is somewhat disturbing and disappointing to me. Don't get me wrong, I find RM's fascinating and very desirable yachts for many other reasons, but I have yet to see one slicing upwind like it's actually meant for it. For some reason however, the whole formula starts to work with the 1350 and 1360, regarded as very fast boats.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo, do you think, one can handle the MC34 Patton shorthanded?
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post #4434 of 6763 Old 08-20-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

[quote=HMoll;1076351]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
One other reflection I did while going through the last 200 pages is that even if pure facts can say a lot about a boats performance my own experience says me that, besides all other estetic and other aspects, also hull shape and other under water aspects are important. On both the Azzurree 40 and recent RM1260 videos the boats are standing on their noses when beating or pressed hard. This my old Oceanis 40-2007 also did, which lifted the rudder out of the water.

One of the best aspects of the Opium 39 is that it, for some reason I can not figure out, do not do this. The more it is pressed the more it lifts is nose out or remains level, also when beating. If reaching it is like my windsurfer, running more and more on the aft quarter and on the leeward rudder (=windsurfing fin). Even if this is still at merely 9-10 knots it is a very crisp and enjoyable feeling, as I said, like getting a windsurfer or motorboat going.

I cannot agree more with JAndersB on the observation of poor balance that the RM1260 displays on a hard beat. Toby Hodges makes the same observation on his test. And the RM1060 seems to behave the same. I think that after following design numbers and the first launch of the RM on this same thread, expecting a rocket-performance cruising game-changer, excitement seemed to disappear very quickly. I wonder if it's just weight distribution of equipment, or simply rig tuning, but it's true that when I see them going upwind, I can only imagine the drag created by that dug-in bow, and it is somewhat disturbing and disappointing to me. Don't get me wrong, I find RM's fascinating and very desirable yachts for many other reasons, but I have yet to see one slicing upwind like it's actually meant for it. For some reason however, the whole formula starts to work with the 1350 and 1360, regarded as very fast boats.
Here is an example of the Opium 39. Not beating but anyway. I described this occasion a couple of pages back. We are almost beating (at least with gennager, AWA 60 degrees) with a 130 sqm gennaker and wind speed 10-12 knots. At times with rail and sail touching water. Boat going very nice and with lifted bow.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10460...Nbc5Zyf-f_5qAE



(can not get the picture inserted so I inserted the link instead)

Regards,
Anders

Last edited by JAndersB; 08-20-2013 at 03:29 AM.
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post #4435 of 6763 Old 08-20-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats lifting bow

I think I found a way to insert the Picture even if small.
Interesting Sailboats-opium-39-gennaker-800x600.jpg

Regards,
Anders
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post #4436 of 6763 Old 08-20-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Paulo, do you think, one can handle the MC34 Patton shorthanded?


I don't see why not with the reserve that it is a very powerful boat and will need a lot of work reefing when the wind builds up but that is the same with all fast boats.

The two more important things in what regards solo sailing are a very good stability (and a boat that sails with not much heel) and the for the sailor the possibility of having easy access to all lines and controls keeping a hand or being near the wheel or tiller. The big tiller and extension seems perfect for that.

The hull design, tiller and the rig setup seems to cover all the criteria. Although it is not a boat for an inexperienced sailor since it is a very powerful one (I would say that it is for an experienced sailor) but as I have said the same can be said regarding all very fast boats.

Regards

Paulo


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post #4437 of 6763 Old 08-21-2013
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Test in Sweden, open yard

Hi, this weekend the traditional open yard inwater boatshow at Hallberg-Rassy in Ellös, Sweden, is taking place. Some 150 boats is showed and appr 24000 people visit.

I sailed my Opium 39 up from Gothenbourg today in very nice conditions, sun and 18-20 knots beam reach. Anchored near the show and vent for a run to Gullholmen marina. At the dock I found the Solaris One 37, the new Elan 400 and the Salona 38. Plenty of magazines where doing a comparative test of these three boats. Dines from Diamond-Yacht in Kiel, from who I bought the Opium was aboard the Solaris and told me that they smoked the other boats on the water. These tests are always difficult to evaluate, the Solaris had carbon Hall spar and 2,4 m-bulb keel. Others had alu masts, keels I do not know. All had good sails but the Salona was carrying more touring equipment.

The Solaris was stunning. As you can see from the pictures the Salona looked a little bit dated among thees new beats. Sorry, Paulo :-)

Regards,
Anders

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picture

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Re: Test in Sweden, open yard

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi, this weekend the traditional open yard inwater boatshow at Hallberg-Rassy in Ellös, Sweden, is taking place. Some 150 boats is showed and appr 24000 people visit.

I sailed my Opium 39 up from Gothenbourg today in very nice conditions, sun and 18-20 knots beam reach. Anchored near the show and vent for a run to Gullholmen marina. At the dock I found the Solaris One 37, the new Elan 400 and the Salona 38. Plenty of magazines where doing a comparative test of these three boats. Dines from Diamond-Yacht in Kiel, from who I bought the Opium was aboard the Solaris and told me that they smoked the other boats on the water. These tests are always diffucult to evaluate, the Solaris had carbon Hall spar and 2,4 m-bulb keel. Others had alu masts, keels I do not know. All had goid sails but the Salona was carrying more touring equipment.

The Solaris was stunning. As you can see from the pictures the Salona looked a little bit dated among thees new beats. Sorry, Paulo :-)

Regards,
Anders
Don't need excuses regarding your opinion but the fact is that a Salona 38 with identical specs of a Solaris 37 is a considerably faster boat and they have it, I mean Carbon rig, deep draft and epoxy, not to mention that it cost almost half the price.

You have on the North of Europe a famous Salona 37 (same hull) that have been racing at top level with great results. You will not be able to do that with a Solaris 37.

Have a looK:

?Feelgood? Salona 37 new ORCi European Champion! - Salona Yachts

Salona 37 won silver medal at ORC World Championship - Salona Yachts

and one big one more, just 4 days ago:

Öresund regatta: Team Feelgood Martin Nilsson i Salona 37 vinner Tjörn Runt



That's the boat:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...8180676&type=3

There are more Salonas 37 competing at top level and winning, between them Lenco. Not a chance there for the Solaris...Yes I know, it was not made to compete at top level and it is only a relatively fast boat, not a fast boat...what can I say...I like fast boats.

Not saying that the Saloris 37 is not a great boat with a luxurious interior but in what regards myself I would prefer to buy a top Salona 38 and a brand new roadster for the price I would pay for the Solaris, or just spend the difference eating lobster and drinking champagne for the rest of my cruising days...but I am not a rich guy.

Regards

Paulo


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and the other America's cup

The kids got the new toys and they are training. It promises to be more competitive than the big series.





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