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  #4481  
Old 08-29-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats - Dragonfly 32

Test sailed the Dragonfly 32 today again and finally in some decent wind. Search Magazine is making an article about the boat and took pictures from a rib and later joined us. 16-22 knots TWS, rather gusty inside the archipelago. Full main and code zero so 110 sqm of sail. With jib only appr. 9 knots beating and reaching we topped 17,5 knots and typically 13-14 knots. Leeward amas almost burried totally.

At the same time the boat does not have a take off point as a normal hull has when starting to plane and it also has an area similar to a tennis court so speed sensation is not that stunning and in our mind might not justify the handling hassle in harbours, limited volume and high price. But you shurely will get quickly from A to B.

Have a look at Segling | Segling News | Search Magazine later. I am at the helm and wife Carina is laying on the netting trying to catch some sun in 17 knots of speed.

Regards,
Anders
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Last edited by JAndersB; 08-29-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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  #4482  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Dragonfly 32/35

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi Mr W and Paulo,
I am still a little bit pussled with the question of 32 or 35. I thought the 35 was supposed to weigh more but saw now on their web that it is rated at 3900 kg versus 3300 for 32 so no big difference. I though find the 35 as both too long and too wide folded, also with a mast height making some interesting bridges impossible. And having to go through the toilet to get to the forward cabin in the 35 seems to be better handled in the 32. But shure, there are some DF 35's at good prices on the market. And I thought Dragonfly would retain value well.....

Regards,
Anders
Hi,

Regarding Paulos note that the df35 would be more suitable for blue water cruising, I have to say the differences between the two are very small. The 35 is a little heavier and slightly longer. The amas of the 32 are extended one foot forward of the main hull, so almost as long as on the 35.

As mentioned before, weight difference is not much on the two, so the choice would depend on other things, such as interior layout.

//Mr W
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  #4483  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats - Dragonfly 32

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Test sailed the Dragonfly 32 today again and finally in some decent wind. Search Magazine is making an article about the boat and took pictures from a rib and later joined us. 16-22 knots TWS, rather gusty inside the archipelago. Full main and code zero so 110 sqm of sail. With jib only appr. 9 knots beating and reaching we topped 17,5 knots and typically 13-14 knots. Leeward amas almost burried totally.

...
Anders
Hi Anders,

Thanks, nice post. Some doubts and clarifications, please:

You talk of about 16/22 true wind full main and code zero, a huge sailing area for such light boat and the leeward amas almost fully buried to make 13/14K. That would put a enormous pressure on the boat structure and I assume that is only possible in pretty flat waters.

Around here, Ikario zone, Aegean that is pretty much almost everyday, I mean the wind, but it comes with a nasty broken sea with 2/3m waves, short and steep ones. With my wife protesting against the boat motion, waves and water coming from the bow I reduce sail (except downwind) to keep a speed of about 7K (could go at 8/8.5K). I wonder what kind of motion and speed the Dragonfly 32 would make on these conditions, that are the normal ones here in the summer. Can you make and educated guess since you have tried the boat?

Another question; Around here lots of Islands so it is quite common to sail on the leeward side of an Island even when going for another one. Gusting is terrible, never saw nothing like it, kind of jumping from 15 to 30 or 35K. Near the Islands on those conditions I keep the boat on second reef on the main and half reefed 35% genoa, doing 7/7.5K (flat water) and believe me that in some gusts I have to let the main go to keep control on the boat. Sailing on these conditions would not be dangerous on the Dragonfly 32, except with a very small amount of sail? These are the conditions were most multihull capsizes happens, not saying that it happens a lot but most of the ones that know off happened on these conditions.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 08-30-2013 at 02:48 AM.
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  #4484  
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Question Re: Interesting Sailboats - Dragonfly 32

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi Anders,

Thanks, nice post. Some doubts and clarifications, please:

You talk of about 16/22 true wind full main and code zero, a huge sailing area for such light boat and the leeward amas almost fully buried to make 13/14K. That would put a enormous pressure on the boat structure and I assume that is only possible in pretty flat waters.

Around here, Ikario zone, Aegean that is pretty much almost everyday, I mean the wind, but it comes with a nasty broken sea with 2/3m waves, short and steep ones. With my wife protesting against the boat motion, waves and water coming from the bow I reduce sail (except downwind) to keep a speed of about 7K (could go at 8/8.5K). I wonder what kind of motion and speed the Dragonfly 32 would make on these conditions, that are the normal ones here in the summer. Can you make and educated guess since you have tried the boat?

Another question; Around here lots of Islands so it is quite common to sail on the leeward side of an Island even when going for another one. Gusting is terrible, never saw nothing like it, kind of jumping from 15 to 30 or 35K. Near the Islands on those conditions I keep the boat on second reef on the main and half reefed 35% genoa, doing 7/7.5K (flat water) and believe me that in some gusts I have to let the main go to keep control on the boat. Sailing on these conditions would not be dangerous on the Dragonfly 32, except with a very small amount of sail? These are the conditions were most multihull capsizes happens, not saying that it happens a lot but most of the ones that know off happened on these conditions.

Regards

Paulo
Hi Paulo and Mr W,
Regarding df32 or 35 there is a rather big difference in size folded. DF32 is 3,6*11,99 m and DF35 3,9*12,6 m.

Yes, 110 sqm in that wind is a lot. And it was ghusty but also total flat water. Having read how carefully people say one should sail a trimaran I was surprised how well it took it. It was enough that I fell away a little bit and we let out a little bit on the code zero in he heaviest ghusts. Never touched the main. But we where also 4 people on board so if alone I would not have done this. We also slightly destroyed the code zero so the forces are big and therefore all carbon sails.

Earlier when I sailed the boat in bigger swell and less wind I was very impressed how well it went sthraight through (narrow hulls) and at the same time over (light) the swell. Total controll, no slamming and no spray.

All in all, impressed how well it could handle the ghusts, as impressed as I was in the summer in Lilla Bält in Denmark, as described earlier. And slightly dissapointed with the sensation.

Regards,
Anders

Last edited by JAndersB; 08-30-2013 at 03:14 AM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats - Dragonfly 32

Some more thoughts regarding trimarans and monohulls for cruising with performance. The Dragonfly, when taking off, does this without further notice, just increasing speed gradually. At the same time it burries the leeward ama. And a narrow, burried ama does not create a nice planing wake but a deep hole. Also the narrow main hull and transom hang rudder creates not the clean wake I am used to from my windsurfer, my Opium 39 or my sons 29er. Combined with the big area of boat and at least for me problems to find the growe, speed and feel pretty similar regardless of unsteady heading, takes some of the thrill away.

Beating in 10 knots of wind in flat water with Opium, and even with the new Oceanis 38 with heavy wheels and bad sails, gently heeling over is almost as rewarding.

Just to share my difficult evaluation of yesterdays wild session

Regards,
Anders
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Re: Interesting Sailboats - Dragonfly 32

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi Anders,

Thanks, nice post. Some doubts and clarifications, please:

You talk of about 16/22 true wind full main and code zero, a huge sailing area for such light boat and the leeward amas almost fully buried to make 13/14K. That would put a enormous pressure on the boat structure and I assume that is only possible in pretty flat waters.

Around here, Ikario zone, Aegean that is pretty much almost everyday, I mean the wind, but it comes with a nasty broken sea with 2/3m waves, short and steep ones. With my wife protesting against the boat motion, waves and water coming from the bow I reduce sail (except downwind) to keep a speed of about 7K (could go at 8/8.5K). I wonder what kind of motion and speed the Dragonfly 32 would make on these conditions, that are the normal ones here in the summer. Can you make and educated guess since you have tried the boat?

Another question; Around here lots of Islands so it is quite common to sail on the leeward side of an Island even when going for another one. Gusting is terrible, never saw nothing like it, kind of jumping from 15 to 30 or 35K. Near the Islands on those conditions I keep the boat on second reef on the main and half reefed 35% genoa, doing 7/7.5K (flat water) and believe me that in some gusts I have to let the main go to keep control on the boat. Sailing on these conditions would not be dangerous on the Dragonfly 32, except with a very small amount of sail? These are the conditions were most multihull capsizes happens, not saying that it happens a lot but most of the ones that know off happened on these conditions.

Regards

Paulo
Hi guys,

One thing you must remember is that the boat Anders sailed is the Supreme version, with more sail area. The touring version might be more suitable to your area, Paulo.

The Df32 is designed with akas that are raised pretty high by the amas. This makes for a smoother ride; the ama can be fully burrowed, without the aka draging to much in the water.

I personally don't have experience of sailing in rough sea with a trimaran, but from what I have heard it makes good sense to slow the boat down for a more comfortable ride. What I do know is that the narrow hulls cut nicely through waves.

The boat testet by Anders also has a rather deep cut Code 0, which I can imagine was causing the boat to burrow the lee hull deep, especially if they were sailing on a close reach. Anders might have some more input here.

When I sailed the Df35 in almost 19 knots, we were on a broad reach. At that point, the lee hull was not burried all the way. The Df32 has even higher amas than the Df35. As Paulo mentioned, pressure is huge on these boats but they are built to take these loads. That's one of the reasons they are a bit pricey. Many Dragonflies are located around UK, where seas can get quite rough too, but they seem to do fine, even in offshore races.

//Mr W
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Re: Dragonfly 32

BTW, I will be able to give you more detailed information next summer, since I signed the contract on a new Dragonfly 32 today... Watch out for SWE 11

//Mr W
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Re: Dragonfly 32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
BTW, I will be able to give you more detailed information next summer, since I signed the contract on a new Dragonfly 32 today... Watch out for SWE 11

//Mr W
So...Congratulations!!!!!! and we will be waiting for that full report. It is a lovely boat and with an amazing interior in what regards quality and use of space. That I know because I had visited the boat on a boat show and I know also that it is very fast....



but also that some prudence is needed when sailing in bad weather (that is a 28)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMoHhilUSoU

Regards

Paulo
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  #4490  
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Re: Dragonfly 32

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Originally Posted by Mr W View Post
BTW, I will be able to give you more detailed information next summer, since I signed the contract on a new Dragonfly 32 today... Watch out for SWE 11

//Mr W
Nice, soon SWE11 Opium 39 and SWE11 Dragonfly 32 are making swedish waters unsafe for others

By the way Paulo, the Anders B you discussed kiel studies with in the beginning of pages 400 was not me.

Regards,
Anders
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