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  #4551  
Old 09-10-2013
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Luffe 36.6/Dragonfly 28

Rumen, those are two very different boats and I would be very interested in knowing your impressions.

The Dragonfly is a much faster boat but that do not mean a more pleasurable boat (or the opposite). You will find that in what regards cruising the Luffe is a much bigger boat, with more interior space, more comfort and a bigger autonomy. If you want to sail more than a week without being in a spartan way, the Luffe would be the "normal" choice. If you are looking mostly for daysailng or weekend cruising than the Dragonfly 28 will be a lot of fun.

If you want to cruise more extensively you would have to look at a Dragonfly 32 or a 35.

Regarding the Luffe don't hesitate in buying the new 36.6 instead of the 37. I have no doubt it is a better boat and in what regards value, the 37 will lose value rapidly now that there is a new model.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 09-10-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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  #4552  
Old 09-10-2013
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Volvo Ocean race: 40 years of history

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  #4553  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Thanks Paulo! Yes, I am much more inclined to pay a price per boat and not per knot. Otherwise I should end in motor boat. I think the Luffe offers 4 basic basic advantages: 1. Traditional looking boat; 2. Excellent monohull sailing including including and good pointing; 3. Quality craftsmanship outside and inside that you can also match to your taste and 4. Fair price (not cheap but not so much Scandinavian expensive). The disadvantages are related only to the narrow beam, which I could live with.

On the other hand Quorning boats are doing great and I predict (and wish) they will be more fashionable in the near future. I visited the yard and was impressed by their small yard efficiency. They make one 28 every 10 days and one 32 every 15 days. Also their responsiveness and commercial behaviour is more adequate. On the other side as you have postednin the past Luffe is more custom made boat and I am sure they cannot build a Luffe 37 (the smallest model) in 20 days (if your measure time by foot). But When I asked why the new Luffe 3.6 has abandoned the low boards of previous models (I think the slightly wider beam does not ruin so much the image), the response was that it was made to meet then needs of the German customers who are taller and need standing height in all boat premises. This means that the boat was designed according to more to the customers' taste and not to Oluf's taste which I respect more. And the base price of the 3.6 is 50k EUR more than the 37.09. (Ex VAT).
Rumen
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Old 09-10-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

It looks unlike the 3200, that the tillers are on the floor of the 3600 vs back of transom for the 3200. SO the 2nd tiller probably falls lower on the floor area, hence why it was out of view.

Marty
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Old 09-11-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

But... The wife says no

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
What do you meant by that BUT......?
I will be test sailing a Luffe 37.09 and 3.6 on September 28-29. On september 30 I will test the Dragondly 28 charter boat (it is available for tests only on Mondays). So far I am doing just coastal sailing. I think the Black Sea (where I sail) is similar to the Baltic in terms of waves but generally not so windy and lack of islands. The only positive thing apart from the possibility for all year round sailing, is that draft is not a big issue in most of the places along the western coast. But I cannot make my mind whether to opt for a Luffe 37.09 or a Dragonfly 28. Both shipyards gave me similar price offers. Luffe is on my heart while Dragonfly tickles my wish for something different. I am sure that by its higher speed and beaching abilities it will make a more versatile boat for coastal sailing. That's why I wil test sail them both in two consequtive days in order to make a choice. But I guess it will not be an easy one. I should mention that 100% I sail single handed with my wife or occasional friend as a guest during the summer season.
I apologise that this post is more enquiring than enlightening and could be qualified as off topic.
Rumen
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  #4556  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

If you want your Family to keep sailing you should heed Paulo's advice and choose a larger Dragonfly or the Luffe.

I'm mad about the Dragonfly's as well, but...

I disagree with the Price on the 37, though I believe there's too many that likes them, not just for the nostalgia..


Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
Thanks Paulo! Yes, I am much more inclined to pay a price per boat and not per knot. Otherwise I should end in motor boat. I think the Luffe offers 4 basic basic advantages: 1. Traditional looking boat; 2. Excellent monohull sailing including including and good pointing; 3. Quality craftsmanship outside and inside that you can also match to your taste and 4. Fair price (not cheap but not so much Scandinavian expensive). The disadvantages are related only to the narrow beam, which I could live with.

On the other hand Quorning boats are doing great and I predict (and wish) they will be more fashionable in the near future. I visited the yard and was impressed by their small yard efficiency. They make one 28 every 10 days and one 32 every 15 days. Also their responsiveness and commercial behaviour is more adequate. On the other side as you have postednin the past Luffe is more custom made boat and I am sure they cannot build a Luffe 37 (the smallest model) in 20 days (if your measure time by foot). But When I asked why the new Luffe 3.6 has abandoned the low boards of previous models (I think the slightly wider beam does not ruin so much the image), the response was that it was made to meet then needs of the German customers who are taller and need standing height in all boat premises. This means that the boat was designed according to more to the customers' taste and not to Oluf's taste which I respect more. And the base price of the 3.6 is 50k EUR more than the 37.09. (Ex VAT).
Rumen
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  #4557  
Old 09-11-2013
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Some new videos from Capado (Fox 10.20) on Portuguese lands.



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  #4558  
Old 09-12-2013
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interesting perfromance cruiser

Hi all,
having gone through the last couple of hundred pages here and among other threads especially the lenghty discussion regarding stiffness and suitability of boats like First 40 and J122 for cruising, in the Blue Jacket-40 thread, I would like to continue that suitability question here. Might be wrong thread, difficult to evaluate.

Having test sailed many boats this autumn (including trimarans), for fun and education, and having owned a Beneteau 36cc, Dufour 385, Elan 333, Olsen 38 pilot saloon, Benetau Oceanis 40, Dehler 43 CWS and Wauquiez Opium 39 (now) I find this question interesting.

The back ground of a typical customer, at least up here. This size class I think is the mostly sold today in the Nordic countries:

Someone interested in a boat around 35-38 foot (absolutely not over 12 m), absolutely under 3,99 m wide, preferably 3,75 m. Depth not bigger than 2,1m, preferably 1,8m. For a couple with occasional quests. For cruising all summer half year weekends and 2-3 months each summer. In the near future perhaps 4-5 months per summer. No immediate plans for ocean crossing. Much time spent at anchor but harbours always pretty close so 4-10 days between refilling of water and food. Sailing experience very important - thrill seekers, trimmers, want to overtake other boats. Going upwind no problem, sometimes even most rewarding, engine only used for in and out of anchorages and harbours. Also to be able to bring the toys -bikes, inlines, kites etc. Single rudder would help mooring in many cases. Wheel stearing for better autopilot implemention without heavy rudder feeling.

In the BJ40-thread there where many that equalled crusing with living aboard and having to be self-sufficient for months, which in this scenario is not the case. Furthermore, the holding tank problem was very fundamental to many in that thread. Sweden will forbid dumping the holding thank in the water from 2015. Personally I think this is shooting flies with cannons and I do not think the tousands of boats returning every sunday evening to the their home harbours during some few summer months will spend hours queing for an often very difficult accessible pumping out station before docking. Especially not single handed sailors so my personal take is that a holding thank of 60 l, being emptied off shore will be the norm also in the future up here. A removable porta potti is a good secondary solution. Can be emptied with dingy, either in harbour toilets or outside anchorages. Max € 230 000-250 000, preferably € 200 000.

So what are your takes for the suitable boat? J122 and First 40 too big. Dehler 38 etc. rather heavy. Archambault A35 too small? - just to mention some. RM1060 even if rather wide?

I guess the question boils down to how small and especially light can you go, for nice sailing, and still have the storage and living space needed? And will the load destroy the sacrifications made by buying the light perfromance oriented boat?

Regards,
Anders
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Last edited by JAndersB; 09-12-2013 at 06:43 AM.
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  #4559  
Old 09-12-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hard to go wrong with any of the boats you speak of. J/122 very capable.
The Opium has to be everyone's dream boat for short handed.
The Olsen 38 Pilot Saloon must not be from the same Santa Cruz ULDB Olson???
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  #4560  
Old 09-12-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward3 View Post
Hard to go wrong with any of the boats you speak of. J/122 very capable.
The Opium has to be everyone's dream boat for short handed.
The Olsen 38 Pilot Saloon must not be from the same Santa Cruz ULDB Olson???
J/122 looks nice but too long and too deep

Opium 39 lovely but too wide as per above. And with 3 double cabins rather big.

Olsen 38 was a very nice boat, mad by Olsen Yacht in Denmark. Basically it should qualify in this thread because up till today I have not been able to find an as good performance deck saloon in the 35-39 feet bracket by far. Only Luffe 43 DS is close (and a copy in my mind). And I have checked many. Mine this was destroyed by fire in 2007, hence the Oceanis 40 in a hurry. Only 12 has been made and the latest 2007 I think. Very nice sailors cockpit, hardly wisible deck saloon, wacuum glued teak deck, lots of smart finesses, like a performance version of the Southerly. They can still make them bout out of the mentioned budget.

Regards,
Anders
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