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  #4721  
Old 10-16-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Ok, I was wrong. Tought it was 3 or 4 years old...
Probably you were confusing with the bigger brother, the 999 that looks a like the smaller one.

Présentation du Malango 999

Regards

Paulo
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  #4722  
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Jimmy Cornell new boat: the Garcia 45

I have posted this on another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You mean Jimmy Cornell, the guy that circumnavigate 3 times and end up discovery the French aluminum centerboarders?

The last one with an OVNI 43 (70 000 nm).

I guess you would be interested in this article:

Jimmy Cornell answers questions about OVNI yachts | Cornell Sailing Publications and Events

Except that Jimmy has commissioned a new boat and it is not an OVNI or even an Alubat. It is also a French aluminum centerboarder but made by Garcia, and a one off, his dream boat. I am very curious about it.

Garcia belongs to Allures (the hulls are made there) and has a long history in what regards making big high quality aluminum boats, most of them centerboarders.

Certainly a boat to follow on the interesting boat thread
And here it is:













http://www.cornellsailing.com/wp-con...a4-oct2013.pdf

Nos voiliers

Jimmy Cornell?s boat a great success at La Rochelle boat show | Cornell Sailing Publications and Events

Jimmy Cornell, the doyen of world cruising, has chosen GARCIA YACHTING to build his new yacht to confront the challenges of the Northwest Passage.

Jimmy Cornell, best-selling nautical author, founder of the ARC and organiser of several round the world rallies, is preparing for a voyage that promises to be the culmination of his sailing life. During the summer of 2014, Jimmy Cornell will sail his new yacht in his latest project, the Blue Planet Odyssey, a global event aiming to raise awareness of the effects of climate change. A transit of the Northwest Passage in the company of other like-minded sailors will highlight the direct consequences of those changes.

To accomplish that voyage, Jimmy conceived the ideal boat, perfectly suited for both high latitude and tropical sailing. In recognition of their skills and expertise, the team at Garcia Yachting consider it an honour and privilege to have been asked to build this exceptional yacht for an exceptional sailor.

"Building this yacht for Jimmy Cornell is like a dream come true," says Stephan Constance, chairman of Grand Large Yachting. "It's like producing an album for your rock idol. For the last few months all of us at Garcia Yachting have responded with all our passion and given our best to turn this ambitious project into reality."

At their Norman boatyard in Condé-sur-Noireau (Calvados), the skilful team of Garcia Yachting is giving birth to the Garcia Exploration 45, an aluminium yacht of 13.50 meters incorporating some unique features never seen in a yacht of this type before. The prototype of Jimmy Cornell will be launched in April 2014 and named Aventura IV, in line with the previous boats of the famous navigator.
...
"I had to quickly find a suitable boat for that voyage," states Jimmy Cornell, "and, having looked around at all that was available, I decided that finally I had an unmissable opportunity to come up with a concept which would be nearest to that elusive ideal cruising boat. I was extremely fortunate in being able to infect with my enthusiasm both the team at Garcia Yachting, in my view the best aluminium yacht builders in the world, and also Olivier Racoupeau, one of France's top yacht designers".

This exciting collaboration proves the validity of what has been for the last ten years the philosophy of Grand Large Yachting, a group of specialist boat builders made up of the brands Allures Yachting, Garcia Yachting and Outremer Yachting. For the founders, Stephan Constance and Xavier Desmarest, the key to the success of their venture lies in the ability of their teams to respond to the needs of each client by providing all necessary expertise. This requires and even bolder approach when it comes to a project pioneered by Jimmy Cornell.

A truly unique yacht
"My requirements were very clear: a strong, fast, comfortable, functional and easily handled boat perfectly suited for both high latitude and tropical sailing," explains Jimmy Cornell."What was new, however, was my insistence on a deck saloon that would ensure almost all-round visibility.

This, and an inside steering position, was something that had never been tried before on a centreboard yacht. The designer has produced what I believe to be the perfect solution: a comfortable and spacious deck saloon with 270° vision, also ideal for watchkeeping and navigation."
....


News

Too much talk for something that is simple. In fact the new boat seems to have the same hull of the Allures 45, probably reinforced, eventually with more ballast (since it is 3.3t heavier) with a deck saloon configuration and an "old" inside steering station . Fact is that the Allures 45 provides already a decent lateral view and a passable forward view from the navigation table and seat, having the possibility to be steered from there. This one will provide a better one, similar to the one that is offered standard on the Boreal 44.

That does not mean that the Garcia 45 is not a great boat adapted to navigation on high latitudes, more that it is not that different from a Allures 45, on another configuration and reinforced.

Jimmy Cornell intends to do with the boat this:



Blue Planet Odyssey 2014-17 - A New Round the World Sailing Event

Let's see what happens. This year things went wrong for the ones that tried to do the Northwest passage, with many boats stuck in the ice. I hope next year they will find better conditions otherwise things can go wrong.
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Last edited by PCP; 10-16-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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  #4723  
Old 10-17-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

Looking over some numbers, if the Salona 33 were placed into a battle tween the comet and the 349, I would give the Salona the nod. Dang near as big as the 349, bigger than the comet, 70sqM of sa, with a base wt of about 4900kgs. so heavier than the comet, lighter than the 349, most SA, so probably from a what I was looking for earlier, the best bang for the buck, speed performance etc of boats from what I can tell in this about 10M or 33' range. An X-yacht may come close too. its time for bed where I am, so will leave you folks in the early part of tomorrow to worry about this. Oh, and how is tomorrow shaping up? Fuzy is probably the most through tomorrow than most of us......LOLOL

Marty
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

Looking over some numbers, if the Salona 33 were placed into a battle tween the comet and the 349, I would give the Salona the nod. Dang near as big as the 349, bigger than the comet, 70sqM of sa, with a base wt of about 4900kgs. so heavier than the comet, lighter than the 349, most SA, so probably from a what I was looking for earlier, the best bang for the buck, speed performance etc of boats from what I can tell in this about 10M or 33' range. An X-yacht may come close too. its time for bed where I am, so will leave you folks in the early part of tomorrow to worry about this. Oh, and how is tomorrow shaping up? Fuzy is probably the most through tomorrow than most of us......LOLOL

Marty
You know that I like Salona boats (particularly in what regards quality/price/performance) and the 33 is no exception. Probably it ill be faster than the Comet on light winds and will point better upwind. It will be worse as a solo boat and considerably less fast downwind, specially with lots of wind. It is a much more classical boat, a more narrow one and with a more traditional transom (that favors upwind sailing).

They say on the Comet 31 boat test that the boat will get good results racing in IRS but I doubt that the Salona 33 would be worse, specially in ORC.

Two very different boats, but both fast in their own way and both with a good cruising interior and an good price.

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Old 10-17-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I am not qualified to talk about this matter, but I can read and understand most of it. In my very unique opinion, the venture between Cornell and Garcia seems to have a big marketing profile.
There are other options, and If I ever have the resources and time to make a high latitud passage, like Cape Horn, I would consider the options I found here: Sirius-Werft Plön | 40 DS | 40 DS.
Regards and keep it up.
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  #4726  
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2014 Voile Magazine boat of the year: Dehler 38

We have talked here about this contest by the second biggest French magazine one that involves its readers.

The contest has nothing to do with the European boat of the year and its way less interesting. They have no categories and put all boats in the same bag and that makes not much sense.

Also while on the European boat of the year the testers are all top professionals with a huge knowledge of the boats on the market, having sailed a huge number of them, here some few professional testers are mixed with many sailors that are far away from having that knowledge.

Anyway, the boat they end up choosing is always a good boat and the information we can take (many times reading between the lines) having so many new boats on the water at the same time is very interesting.

I found this year's contest particularly confusing but with some surprising revelations, for instance:

They had on the water the new Oceanis 38, the cheap Varianta 37 and the Bavaria 37 with light wind conditions. The Varianta was way faster than the other two boats and that probably took away any possibility for an Oceanis 38 win but the Varianta did not pass top the 2th round of the contest: It had an older hull and the finish was not very good (even if better than the Varianta 44)

Another surprise, they had on the water the Xp33, the Pogo 30, the Sunfast 3600 the Mat 10.10 and the new version of the J122.

About that they say (the translation is mine): "the J122 leads the way but the Sunfast 3600, the Mat 10.10, Xp 33 and Dehler 38 are not far away. The J88 is comfortably sailing among the big boats and on the first downwind ride with spinnaker we noticed that the Django goes with ease notwithstanding being one of the smaller boats. The Italia 13.98 that had started later come from behind and overtake everybody."

It is good to remember that we are talking about light conditions (6/8K) where the bigger boat is not necessarily the faster boat. On this case it was and that says a lot about the YT 13.98 that with its luxury interior an all is a hell of a sailing boat even on light wind (the boat was one of the 2013 European boats of the year - Luxury class).

What is more strange about that description about boat performance it is not what it is said but what it is not said: Where the hell is the Pogo 30 or the RM 1360?

Well, there it is the Pogo 30 (the translation is mine):

"Two boats are passing the buoys together, the Pogo 30 and the Winner 900????. Two boats with a very different conception: The Pogo 30 with a beamy modern powerful hull with a simplified interior and the winner with a much more classic hull with a much better interior. Unfortunately we could not judge definitively the performances between the two boats because the winner had not a spinnaker on board."

The Pogo 30 and the Winner 900 side by side? Who would say

But the winner 900 did not pass to the 2th round (the Pogo had passed): like the Xp33, the Astus 20.2 and the Lagoon 39 they could only stay one day available, so they were excluded.

Anyway I would say that the performance of the winner 900 was absolutely remarkable for a boat with a great cruising interior.

Regarding the contest, the jury decided to eliminate all boats that had a hull already used on a previous version. It does not make any sense to me. If it was so why had they invited the boats to a contest where they would be forcefully eliminated? That was the case with the J122 and the Varianta.

The Dufour 410 was out "for lack of enthusiasm", the Bavaria 37 "did not manage to convince" the Iy 13.98 "because it had a rudder not very sensitive and was too expensive", the MAT 10.10 was eliminated God knows why. they say: "The Mat 10.10 was another case...having conquered the regatta sailors by its very good performance in light winds". It is difficult to understand how the boat could have conquered them in strong winds if they had not strong winds while testing and why the boat was eliminated.

Anyway the boats that passed to the second round were the Dehler 38, the Oceanis 38, the Sunfast 3600, the Rm 1360, the J88 and the Pogo 30.

All French boats except one, the Dehler 38 (the J88 is made in France) and that was surprisingly the one that had won by a large margin and I think that means a lot, I mean French sailors choosing a German boat? Only with very good reasons.

When I first talked here about the Dehler 38 I have said:

"..this was one of the surprises and a good one. Contrary to the 41 (that was also there and that I visited too) the interior of the boat is very good. Not that the 41 has bad quality on the finish but the difference in design quality is huge.

A very beautiful boat with good storage space and a very clever and innovative head. In fact they managed to solve on the two cabin versions the access to the second cabin in a brilliant way and it works visually with the advantage of separating the toilet in two parts, one with an isolated head and shower, the other with the toilet part. Very clever and very functional.

... The boat is very stiff with a very good B/D ratio (32%) taking into consideration the very efficient keel. The rigging is well done (as in all Dehlers). You have only to chose between the one they call competition (C) and the standard version. But don't let the words mislead you, competition my ass, what you really have is a cheaper version and a more expensive one. ..

The main difference has to do with an epoxy cored hull with a synthetic core versus a balsa cored boat with regular resins. Probably also a wire rig versus a rod one and I don't know if the standard one has lead as ballast."


Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
.. It seems to me a great boat, much better in what regards interior than the 41. .. I guess it is going to sell very well, and deserves it. Contrary of other boats on this segment the boat can be delivered in two versions, with two or three cabins,

A two cabin version is the way to go in what regards extensive cruising and will provide all storage space needed.

What can I say more? A beautiful and fast boat with a great stability that will be sold in two apparently equal versions, one very accessible and another one expensive. One will have a lead keel, epoxy cored hull over airex (or similar) a bigger mast and the other one will have a cored hull with normal resins over a balsa core, Iron keel, smaller mast.

The first one will be enough for most cruisers and I expect it to be the most sold by far. Regarding competition the main one will be from the Salona 38, a more traditional boat in the hull and interiors that regards price has a version correspondent to the basic one from Dehler cheaper and has a version correspondent to the top one from Dehler at the same price as the basic Dehler version. The Salona will have the added advantage of the stainless steel keel structure for the keel and shrouds but I never heard any complaints about Dehler solidity.
..
Have a look:













The Dehler 38 won by a big margin, 27 points while the second, the J88 had 18 and the third, the Sunfast 3600 had 17. We cannot say that these guys have choose the Dehler 38 because they favor cruising boats. I remember that last year the boat that had won was the J 111.

It seems that it is not only me that considers the Dehler 38 a great sailing boat

A new look at the main test sail video on the web:







But if you want to have a really perfect nice boat ask for one without that bath platform. See hoe much the boat look more lighter and elegant without it:

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Last edited by PCP; 10-17-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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  #4727  
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Sirius 40 / Garcia 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by donjuanluis View Post
I am not qualified to talk about this matter, but I can read and understand most of it. In my very unique opinion, the venture between Cornell and Garcia seems to have a big marketing profile.
There are other options, and If I ever have the resources and time to make a high latitud passage, like Cape Horn, I would consider the options I found here: Sirius-Werft Plön | 40 DS | 40 DS.
...
Yes sure, Cornell and Allures are doing joint ventures from some time but Cornell after making several circumnavigations in different kinds of sailboats discovered the OVNI 43, made a circumnavigation in it (70 000nm) and declared that it was the best voyage boat he had ever sailed.



Then Allures appeared on the market and it is the same kind of boat, lighter and with a better stability and Cornell soon started to be interested. Their relation comes from his interest in the boat.

When time comes for a new boat (and probably he was thinking about that from the beginning) he asked Allures for big modifications on the Allures 45 and they decided to make a boat for him using the 45 hull, that is made by Garcia (Garcia belongs to allures and all their hulls are made there). For commercial reasons they decided to call it a Garcia even if Garcia is only making bigger boats.

This is his dream voyage boat and the least we can say is that the guy knows one or two things about it

I know well Sirius (this thread started with a Sirius) and even if it is a great boat it is a Luxury cruiser, not expressly designed as a voyage boat. Not saying that it cannot voyage only that it is not as good at that as a standard Allures 39.9 for instance, much less in high latitudes where the Aluminium offer a superior protection against ice.

Also in the case of any problem these type of boats (Aluminium centerboarders) can be beached for repairs, offering also an additional protection against grounding. Final a aluminium centerboard with an adequate ballast is one of the best boats to survive bad weather (it has a great dynamic stability).

the Garcia 45 is a reinforced boat and expressively built for an expedition. I am sure that it is more resistant than any production boat (almost 3t heavier than a standard Allures 45).

Regarding the Sirius 40 they have that project for years (and also one for a 43 that they seemed to have abandoned) but it seems that they have not find yet a client for the boat. Maybe you

The boats are very nicely built and with the better interiors you can find on the market, regarding quality and use of space. Unfortunately the prices go in pair with the quality.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-17-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  #4728  
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Re: Sirius 40 / Garcia 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Then Allures appeared on the market and it is the same kind of boat, lighter and with a better stability and Cornell soon started to be interested. Their relation comes from his interest in the boat.

When time comes for a new boat (and probably he was thinking about that from the beginning) he asked Allures for big modifications on the Allures 45 and they decided to make a boat for him using the 45 hull, that is made by Garcia (Garcia belongs to allures and all their hulls are made there). For commercial reasons they decided to call it a Garcia even if Garcia is only making bigger boats.

This is his dream voyage boat and the least we can say is that the guy knows one or two things about it

Also in the case of any problem these type of boats (Aluminium centerboarders) can be beached for repairs, offering also an additional protection against grounding. Final a aluminium centerboard with an adequate ballast is one of the best boats to survive bad weather (it has a great dynamic stability).o
But there is obe problem left: These boats are ugly as hell and charming as big cargo ships...
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Allures 45

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
But there is obe problem left: These boats are ugly as hell and charming as big cargo ships...
They certainly are not sexy but they have made a long way in what regards looking good. Great designers have made them look good even on the interior. I have been inside the Allures 45 and I had been surprised by the good looks of the boat (and by the price too). I knew also the Allures 44, the previous model and the it is surprising the evolution to the 45 in what regards finesse and elegance.




Take also a look at this one:

https://hamnenplay.solidtango.com/vi...ures-45-130213

Regards

Paulo
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Omer Wing Sail

Paulo et al,

I was doing some reading and came across the Omer Wing Sail. It seems to greatly simplify rigging, sail inventory and really simplify handling while improving sailing efficiency.

I was wondering if any of you had a particular opinion on these. One thought that came to mind was what effect if any it might have on a boat's stability and it's ability to right itself were it to be knocked down and have the area between the sails fill with water.

http://www.omerwingsail.com/

Love those Allures btw. Much nicer interior vs the Ovni's.

Regards,
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