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  #4731  
Old 10-17-2013
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Re: Omer Wing Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Paulo et al,

I was doing some reading and came across the Omer Wing Sail. It seems to greatly simplify rigging, sail inventory and really simplify handling while improving sailing efficiency.

I was wondering if any of you had a particular opinion on these. One thought that came to mind was what effect if any it might have on a boat's stability and it's ability to right itself were it to be knocked down and have the area between the sails fill with water.

Omer wing sail

...

Regards,
YachtingMonthly tested them on this month edition and I had already posted about the Onesails work on wing sails, that is not the same thing.





The Omer wing sail is complicated, it needs a mast without shrouds, probably an heavy mast, the mast has to rotate and I cannot see clearly how to reef that sail easily. Complicated, expensive probably heavy. Maybe one day for big yachts in the future.

The One sails system seems simpler but the reffing problem remains.

I had posted also about a system that is an add on to the actual sail of the boat and that works with inflation given to the sail an actual wing profile. Seems more reasonable but I am not seeing me doing that in the huge main of may sailboat (a lot of work) and probably would turn reefing into a mess. Maybe for smaller boats. In a small cruiser that should be fun to try the system.

Home 2

I have not more news and I cannot find any movies on the net so I guess it is not a success, at least yet. I seems a good idea to me.

Regards

Paulo
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Old 10-17-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by donjuanluis View Post
I am not qualified to talk about this matter, but I can read and understand most of it. In my very unique opinion, the venture between Cornell and Garcia seems to have a big marketing profile.
There are other options, and If I ever have the resources and time to make a high latitud passage, like Cape Horn, I would consider the options I found here: Sirius-Werft Plön | 40 DS | 40 DS.
Regards and keep it up.
I have to quote myself because as I said being not qualified to talk I can be wrong very easy. The builder I wanted to say was Our Yachts / K&M Yachtbuilders. who makes custom modifications to better fit your purpose. I'm talking about Bestevaer, Stadship, Axonite, all of them in aluminium. All of them way out of my reach ever....
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  #4733  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by donjuanluis View Post
I have to quote myself because as I said being not qualified to talk I can be wrong very easy. The builder I wanted to say was Our Yachts / K&M Yachtbuilders. who makes custom modifications to better fit your purpose. I'm talking about Bestevaer, Stadship, Axonite, all of them in aluminium. All of them way out of my reach ever....
Yes, that makes a lot more sense

One of them (Bestewind 50) was nominated recently for boat of the year on the luxury class (did not won). Here you can see it being tested.





But you are right regarding prices. The Dutch aluminium centerboarders for the same size are considerable more expensive than the French ones, I don't know why but that is true even in what regards other boats. Maybe because the production is much smaller...anyway I don't think Cornell is a very rich guy so it makes sense that him, like most of us had looked for the achievable dream and a boat he could pay. The Bestewind is a lovely boat but it costs about 1 million dollars.

Regards

Paulo
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  #4734  
Old 10-18-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

We spoke about the Océan 35 few days ago. I tried to contact them and ask for a realistic weight and the price tag but the email is invalid...

What do you think is a realistic weight for a fully (cruising-)equipped Pogo 30 and will it still be fast?
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Pogo 30

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
We spoke about the Océan 35 few days ago. I tried to contact them and ask for a realistic weight and the price tag but the email is invalid...

What do you think is a realistic weight for a fully (cruising-)equipped Pogo 30 and will it still be fast?
There is fast and fast, there is cruising equipment and cruising equipment.

If you mean planning speeds, the boat should be as light as possible. That is a small boat and the same load will be much more detrimental for speed that in a bigger boat and if I remember right Eric in his Pogo 12.50 does not even carry an outboard engine.

Anyway the boat with a "normal" cruising charge for a 30ft would still be fast downwind but would need much more wind and sail area to plan, so much that I doubt that it would be practical solo in cruising mode.

Off course, we would have to define what is a normal charge and what one needs for cruising. That varies widely. Someone that will plan to cruise with a lot of people and charge would not probably want a Pogo 30.

Think of it like a motorcycle versus a car.

It is possible to cruise with a powerful sportive motorcycle (and I have done that) but not ideal to take someone with you neither the camping tents and food. Sure, it can be done and the motorcycle will still be fast in a straight line but would be comparatively more sluggish around bends than a touring car with the same load. On the car that weight, that on the motorcycle makes a big difference, is hardly noticed.

So if you want a Pogo 30 think about cruising light, as light as you can manage.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo, do you understand where is the difference between Malango 888 and Mojito 888?
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Re: Pogo 30

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
There is fast and fast, there is cruising equipment and cruising equipment.

If you mean planning speeds, the boat should be as light as possible. That is a small boat and the same load will be much more detrimental for speed that in a bigger boat and if I remember right Eric in his Pogo 12.50 does not even carry an outboard engine.

Anyway the boat with a "normal" cruising charge for a 30ft would still be fast downwind but would need much more wind and sail area to plan, so much that I doubt that it would be practical solo in cruising mode.

Off course, we would have to define what is a normal charge and what one needs for cruising. That varies widely. Someone that will plan to cruise with a lot of people and charge would not probably want a Pogo 30.

Think of it like a motorcycle versus a car.

It is possible to cruise with a powerful sportive motorcycle (and I have done that) but not ideal to take someone with you neither the camping tents and food. Sure, it can be done and the motorcycle will still be fast in a straight line but would be comparatively more sluggish around bends than a touring car with the same load. On the car that weight, that on the motorcycle makes a big difference, is hardly noticed.

So if you want a Pogo 30 think about cruising light, as light as you can manage.

Regards

Paulo
Some things I (or my girl) will need:

1) Music
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3) Stove with 2 Burners(?) but no oven
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5) Lots of electronics (NKE)
6) Additional storage (primary for clothes)
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winner 900 / Pogo 30

Few times I have been so surprised as I was by this statement on that global test sail made by Voile magazine:

"Two boats are passing the buoys together, the Pogo 30 and the Winner 900????. Two boats with a very different conception: The Pogo 30 with a beamy modern powerful hull with a simplified interior and the winner with a much more classic hull with a much better interior. Unfortunately we could not judge definitively the performances between the two boats because the winner had not a spinnaker on board."

I have saw the Winner 900 in Dusseldorf, it seems a pretty classic cruiser, like the Dutch ones tend to be, but I would not take it for a very sportive boat, just a fast cruiser on the "old" style:





In fact they have three versions and I bet that the one that was tested with that Pogo 30 was the performance edition, the one on the movie, this one:







The boat is designed by Vand de Stadt design a denomination that pisses me because Vand de stadt passed long ago. The design really is from Cees van Tongeren.

When we look to the dimensions of the sportive version we understand that behind that classical look lays a pretty fast boat, specially upwind:

Length over all: 9.00 m
Waterline: 8.00 m
Width: 2.96 m
Draft: 1.90
Displacement: 3.10 ton
Ballast: 1.20 ton
Mainsail: 31m2

A lot of ballast on that sailboat and almost all in a torpedo at 1.90m is enough to give the power needed to drive fast that narrow hull that does not need a lot of sail.

This is a boat with a conception opposed to the Pogo 30. The weights are not that different (2800kg to 3100kg) but look at the beam (3.70m to 2.96m). the Pogo has a swing keel but it offers also a fixed torpedo keel with 1.90m. On the Pogo the B/D should be smaller as normally is in this type of boats versus narrower boats.









In the end with 6/8K the same speed upwind. I bet that I am not the only one surprised. I hope that they find this as interesting as I and make a full comparative test between the two boats since they could not compare the speeds downwind because the Winner had not a spinnaker.

Of course in high winds the Pogo downwind will start to plan much sooner and will go away but upwind with waves probably the winner will go away too.

Interesting stuff.

There is one thing that is far better on the Pogo interior: space and one that is much better on the winner, interior quality and charm.

Charm is too strong?

Just look at this interior:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/fileB...winner900_.swf

Two great boats in their own way I would say
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Last edited by PCP; 10-18-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Talking Re: Interesting Sailboats

500 pages! Congratulations Paulo and senior contributors! Is this a record for any sailing thread? I bet it is. Sold my J/35 a few weeks ago , so this is the sailing I'll be doing for a while. Regards to all, Hans.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Paulo, do you understand where is the difference between Malango 888 and Mojito 888?
The Mojito 888 (I love Mojitos) is yet in project. Same hull than the 888 but a bigger cruising potential (with a bigger cabin) and it will be a highly customized boat. It can have or not the dinghy garage, it is offered on the standard version with a fixed keel with 1.80m of draft but can also have the swing keel.

It seems interesting to me

Regarding your needs while cruising it is up to you to decide. Go and see the interiors of different fast boats, their accommodations and the prices and take a pick. It is also important to have a boat adapted to your cruising grounds: Swallow waters, deep waters, strong or medium winds versus weak winds, lots of upwind sailing versus lots of downwind sailing, mostly flat waters versus choppy seas or big waves with a considerable period and so on.

Regards

Paulo
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