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  #4751  
Old 10-18-2013
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Luffe 36.6



The boat was tested by the main German Magazine Yacht.de and by the Norwegian Seil.

The ones from Seil make a nice final resume: What could one want more?

The Germans are not so radical and say: When tested, the Danish boat surprised not only by its sailing qualities, but also with by its unusually generous space.

Here you can read the Norwegian test. You have only to click on the English banner.

Luffe 3.6 seiler - SEILmagasinet
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  #4752  
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Re: Omer Wing Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
YachtingMonthly tested them on this month edition and I had already posted about the Onesails work on wing sails, that is not the same thing.





The Omer wing sail is complicated, it needs a mast without shrouds, probably an heavy mast, the mast has to rotate and I cannot see clearly how to reef that sail easily. Complicated, expensive probably heavy. Maybe one day for big yachts in the future.

The One sails system seems simpler but the reffing problem remains.

I had posted also about a system that is an add on to the actual sail of the boat and that works with inflation given to the sail an actual wing profile. Seems more reasonable but I am not seeing me doing that in the huge main of may sailboat (a lot of work) and probably would turn reefing into a mess. Maybe for smaller boats. In a small cruiser that should be fun to try the system.

Home 2

I have not more news and I cannot find any movies on the net so I guess it is not a success, at least yet. I seems a good idea to me.

Regards

Paulo
Not sure I agree. From what I can tell, each video showed two different approaches to the mast. The top showed a wishbone style mast, where each "leg" seemed smaller than a regular mast and had cross members to add strength and rigidity. The other appeared to have a single mast with two tracks (one to port & starboard). Neither seemed grossly oversized in looking closely at them.

Reefing-wise, they claim they're easy to reef in both videos. I'd like to see that. But to me, it looks like each sail would fall into the same lazyjack type system and each would be tied individually. So it does look like there would be an extra step here.

But overall, the rigging looks much simpler to my eye vs a regular standing/running rigging. No sidestays, no spreaders, an optional front/backstay if you wish to fly a gennaker, hydraulic controls for camber which are usually very robust and time tested. It would seem no vang or Cunningham is needed, nor battens, fewer winches, less wear and tear on the sails due to less flogging as you cross the wind (no chafing from spreaders). Am I missing something that your astute eye caught?

It appears they're already working on v5, so the pace of improvement seems to be respectable and it's even being used on very small boats. hmmmm I can definitely understand the adoption rate being slow. It's a huge change to conventional sailing for cruisers. But that doesn't mean it's bad; just early. :-)

Regards,
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  #4753  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by donjuanluis View Post
I have to quote myself because as I said being not qualified to talk I can be wrong very easy. The builder I wanted to say was Our Yachts / K&M Yachtbuilders. who makes custom modifications to better fit your purpose. I'm talking about Bestevaer, Stadship, Axonite, all of them in aluminium. All of them way out of my reach ever....
WOW. They build some boats. Some of those interiors are incredible!
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  #4754  
Old 10-19-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes, as you can see, the accent is on the space and the space you have on the 3.6, you do not have on the 37, but I doubt that the latter' hull is less effective. But as you have mentioned in some of your posts if the hull is narrow it is better to be longer. In this respect I like better the 40.04 (which you already know very well). Unfortunately, one has also to pay a lot of money for it. Oluf's Jospehine is lying on the same pontoon opposite the 3.6 and is for sale (I did not ask what is the price but I am sure it will exceed 250 000).
Rumen
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by olianta View Post
Yes, as you can see, the accent is on the space and the space you have on the 3.6, you do not have on the 37, but I doubt that the latter' hull is less effective. But as you have mentioned in some of your posts if the hull is narrow it is better to be longer. In this respect I like better the 40.04 (which you already know very well). Unfortunately, one has also to pay a lot of money for it. Oluf's Jospehine is lying on the same pontoon opposite the 3.6 and is for sale (I did not ask what is the price but I am sure it will exceed 250 000).
Rumen
They are asking 280000 euros for it but I think they will sell it for about 250000 euros but that is a boat with Seldén carbon fibre mast/rod rig, Bow truster “Swing Trust”, Electrical winches, Electric furler, Carbon fibre steering wheel, not a standard boat

A hull being modern has nothing to do with being narrow or beamy but with reflecting all the new technological improvements and knowledge in design.

The luffe 40.04 was a modern hull, very similar to the one of the 36.6. The boat is nicer because a 40fter is longer and therefore having a proportionally less bigger freeboard. The same way the 45 is even nicer and probably the nicest of them all is the bigger one the 48:



In my opinion the 36.6 is one of the more beautiful 37 fts around:





The only thing I would modify is the closed transom that looks too heavy but that is really easy to sort it out: I am sure that there would not be a problem in having an open transom in that boat.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-19-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Re: Omer Wing Sail

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Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Not sure I agree. From what I can tell, each video showed two different approaches to the mast. The top showed a wishbone style mast, where each "leg" seemed smaller than a regular mast and had cross members to add strength and rigidity. The other appeared to have a single mast with two tracks (one to port & starboard). Neither seemed grossly oversized in looking closely at them.

Reefing-wise, they claim they're easy to reef in both videos. I'd like to see that. But to me, it looks like each sail would fall into the same lazyjack type system and each would be tied individually. So it does look like there would be an extra step here.

But overall, the rigging looks much simpler to my eye vs a regular standing/running rigging. No sidestays, no spreaders, an optional front/backstay if you wish to fly a gennaker, hydraulic controls for camber which are usually very robust and time tested. It would seem no vang or Cunningham is needed, nor battens, fewer winches, less wear and tear on the sails due to less flogging as you cross the wind (no chafing from spreaders). Am I missing something that your astute eye caught?

It appears they're already working on v5, so the pace of improvement seems to be respectable and it's even being used on very small boats. hmmmm I can definitely understand the adoption rate being slow. It's a huge change to conventional sailing for cruisers. But that doesn't mean it's bad; just early. :-)

Regards,
I had already said what were my objections: Complicated, expensive and technically difficult, besides reefing problems. What you said regarding a simpler free standing rig without stays and for more a rotating one represents an enormous technical and structural difficulty and can only be resolved with very high tech materials in an incredibly expensive way...and I don't know if in a better way.

What you say regarding free standing rigs is not a new thing. Many have tried and there are some boats that use them...but they are just a small minority and there are reasons for that. Even in what regards not using back-stays lots of of boats don't use them, for instance the Hunter and the cruising Pogos. But besides being cheaper it is a better solution? Then why the racing Pogos (with the same hull) use backstays? A backstay can change the shape of the front sail and mainsail, something that a free standing rig cannot do and besides make the rig stronger.

I believe that the wing sails have a big future but they have to become practical and not hugely expensive. That does not seem to me the case with that set up.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-19-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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  #4757  
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Oceanis 38 / Luffe 3.6

After the Luffe 36.6, a narrow 37 fter, the Oceanis 38, a very beamy 38ft cruiser

The Oceanis 38 has been raising a lo of interest and some of its characteristics are revolutionary at least in what regards mass market boats, namely its interior.

A cruising boat is also a "house", a place where some live for extending periods of time and in what regards that particular the Oceanis has no compairaison with the Luffe 36.6...in everything except built quality, that is superior on the Luffe. Let's have a look comparing both interiors:

Luffe 36.6:

















Oceanis 38
















So, as you can see nothing to do in what regards living comfort, living quality and space. And I do not even have mentioned the cockpit space that for me is very important because even on anchor I live most of the time outside. That space is hugely bigger on the Oceanis.






Certainly the question is: Are the sail performance completely different and the amazing answer will be no. The Luffe 36.6 will be more rewarding sailing, almost for sure with an overall better performer specially upwind but in what cruising regards it will not be a very big difference with the advantage to the Oceanis in what regards sailing with much less heel and being much more stable and easy to sail downwind (and probably faster, given it the right amount of sail).

If I would cruise extensively and lived several months on a boat (that is what I do) I doubt that even for the same price I would choose a Luffe 36.6 over the Oceanis 38 even if they would cost the same and that is not the case being the Luffe more expensive.

If I used the boat less extensively in what regards living, then it would be another story and in what regards sailing pleasure I have no doubt that I would prefer the Luffe.











Regarding sail performance the nice hull of the Oceanis based on Open boat design give the impression that it is a very fast boat even in the category of performance boats. That is not the case and on a recent test with many cruisers on the water (light wind) the Oceanis was not even a match for a Varianta 37 (that is a downgraded and very inexpensive version of an Hanse) while the true performance boats like the Dehler 38 were incomparably better.

That has to due with weight the the poor running rigging, lesser control on the sails, less sail area (related with the boat RM). There is talk of a more sportive version. I doubt it because then the price of the boat would increase dramatically and what is going to make this a top seller boat is what the boat offers already for a very interesting price.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-19-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  #4758  
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Oceanis 38

Video with some images with the boat going fast with medium/strong wind:

Le "Spécial Novembre" est arrivé !
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Sly 38

and since we are talking about 38ft boats, a new movie with the Sly 38 that is also an interesting option. We had already talked about this boat before (it was nominated for 2021 boat of the year):

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Sydney to Auckland in less than three days:

An Australian crew set an new record for sailing from Sydney to Auckland on an old ORMA 60 trimaran.

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