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  #4771  
Old 10-21-2013
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Sly 43

I post about a lot of boats and I like most of them even if they are not boats I would like to own, at least at the present time. Well, this one I would like to have.

So why would I like to have this one if I have a 40ft and the size fits me well? Because this boat has about the same weight of my boat and probably the admissible load would be very similar, in fact the tankage is not very different. So why would I prefer this to mine that I find also beautiful and fast?

Just because I find this one even more beautiful.... and faster, with the same type of sailing performance of my boat, I mean, a great upwind potential and an overall balanced performance.

Regarding the Comet 41s It has the same type of hull but this one is lighter, uses E-glass laminates sandwiching a PVC foam core infused by epoxy-vyniliester resin a reinforcement carbon grid vacuum bagged and laminated to the hull and composite bulkheads. A top building that allows a very light boat (7880kg) with a considerable B/D ratio (32%) considering 2.55m of draft and a lead torpedo keel. Probably I would prefer a 2.25m keel, that would mean the same RM but with a superior B/D ratio due to an heavier bulb.

The 42 was already a great boat, this one (that is a new boat with a different hull) seems just better specially in what regards cruising. This one has a much nicer interior

Just to give an Idea of the speed potential have a look at this video with the Sly 42:



Regarding the Sly 42 (that was European yacht of the year in 2008), the 43 has a much nicer interior, it is beamier (3.96 to 3.80) and even so remains relatively narrow boat for a 43ft and is slightly bigger 12.97 to 12.80m. There is only one thing that I would like to see different and that's the design of the transom/ final part of the hull. I would have preferred not such a fast transition between the bottom and the side of the hull. Some say that shape allows a better upwind performance (at the cost at a superior downwind stability) but I am not totally convinced.

Now just have a look and see if it is not a WOW!!! boat. It is, at least for me















The photo of the interior does not make justice to it (too much light). Just look at this video and you understand what I mean:

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Last edited by PCP; 10-21-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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  #4772  
Old 10-21-2013
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Do you want a nice new 37ft cruiser for 77777 euros?

this one:



If you are not European it will be 19% cheaper because the price includes already VAT.

Well, you have to run and I bet that from early hours in the morning there will be a queue to be the first to enter the Hamburg boat show

This price is only for the first that arrive to the stand and put a sign on a contract. The second will be a bit more expensive and so on till the 11th boat that will be sold at a "normal" price : 89 131 euros (including 19% VAT).

That is a funny publicity stunt and if it works (and I think it is going to work) it is a clever move and it can give a nice movie: the race for the Varianta
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Old 10-21-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Good looking boat.. I like!

After looking at the web site I think she looks better with a dodger than without.. and some kind of cove stripe would be nice.
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Last edited by Faster; 10-21-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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  #4774  
Old 10-21-2013
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Two new flag ships, one from Jeanneau (the 64) other from Dufour, the 560.

Two very different boats. I don't like the high ass from the jeanneau. I prefer the fat but low ass from the Dufour

Jeanneau 64









Dufour 560









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  #4775  
Old 10-22-2013
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Dufour 500 barbecue.

Yes, the Dufour 500 is a nice boat for a mass market cruiser. It even looks like a performance boat.



But of what use is a beautiful boat if you make it ugly with a ugly accessories? I am talking about a barbecue. Yes very nice for cruising. I had one in my previous boat. I could not let it on place because it would get a lot of water sailing upwind so I have to dismount it and mount it whenever I wanted to use, a pain in the ass and a displeasure to the eyes.

So, have a good look at this:




I like also that freezer on the cockpit even if it was to have a generator to have power for it but this is a mainstream cruiser not a performance boat so the odds is that the typical owner would have not only a generator but also AC.
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Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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  #4776  
Old 10-22-2013
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Umberto Felci

The Dufour 500 and 560 look incredibly beautiful for the interior space they provide. They are as elegant as performance boats and make the miracle of having the interior of a more comfortable main market cruiser. Looking at then we easily see that they come from the same designer a great one that is known by its fast and beautiful boats, Umberto Felci (a retired racer). Let's have a look at some of his designs, starting by the two Dufours:

Dufour 500



Dufour 560


Dufour 410



ADRIA SCUDERIA 50



Dufour 36p





Ice 62




Ice 44



Advanced 60

Advanced Yachts presents A60 and A78 from Wise Society on Vimeo.



Felci 61



Sensei 9M



This is just a small show of what he is being doing recently. He is doing much more than what I can find in video. Have a looK:

Felci Yacht Design - Our Projects

Thet all have something in common: Beauty

Thanks to Felci for adding a lot of beauty to the sail world

An interview with the man (Italian):

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Last edited by PCP; 10-24-2013 at 07:11 AM.
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  #4777  
Old 10-22-2013
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Middle of the sea race

Morning Glory, a Z86, a relatively old boat (2003) won in real time. Old but fast: narrow, big (86ft) and narrow on the light wind conditions won about 2 hours to a Mills 72 and about 5 hours to the Hugo Boss Open 60.



Looking behind to the ones that are still racing particularly to performance cruising boats with 45ft of smaller, at Pantellaria Island control point we can see that the guys om the Sunfast 3200 and the ones on the Grand Soleil 37 continue do do a great race.

The Sunfast has a real time of d3 h8 m19 s24 while the Grand Soleil 37 with d3 h3 m28 s35 is about 5 hours faster. Both boats are well sailed. On compensated IRC the Sunfast is on 18th and the Grand Soleil in 14th.

Another boats doing a great race: An Elan 410 with d3 h1 m24 s57 is about half an hour behind a J 122 d3 h0 m8 s6 (on compensated the positions are inverted) while a J133 is ahead of the J 122 by about an hour and a half with d2 h22 m21 s58. In the middle of both boats a J111 with d3 h0 m15 s5. Among these boats a X40 is also making a great race with d3 h1 m17 s15, ahead of the Elan 410 and i hour behind the J122.

Off course the J111 and the SF3200 even if with a basic cruising interior are basically race boats while the others are performance cruisers with a good cruising interior.

The J122 is only 7 hours behind the first of the 40 class racers (d2 h15 m51 s13) but the third and the fourth class 40 are behind one with d3 h21 m54 s14 and the other with d3 h2 m23 s41.

Another interesting results but not as good: A Dehler 34 with d3 h9 m9 s15, a First 40.7 with d3 h4 m55 s51, another Elan 410 with d3 h4 m11 s47, another J122 with d3 h4 m16 s2, a First 40 with d3 h4 m55 s30, a Solaris one 42 with d3 h4 m24 s13.

That oddity that I was talking about and was making an impossible time, the Beneteau Oceanis 430 went off the classification (they were racing with the engine?).

A movie with that J122 that is doing well, on last year's race.



The J122 has a funny name "Otra vez" means in Spanish again and here they are "again" doing a great race.
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Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 07:19 PM.
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  #4778  
Old 10-22-2013
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New Arcona 380

Looks good in a conservative sort of way







If the 380 is comparatively as fast as the 340, the performances would not be conservative, as the looks, but outstanding.

Let's compare it with the Salona 38, a reference in that size and segment:

The Arcona is smaller (11.28 to 11.50m), heavier (6850kg to 6500kg) beamier (3.80m to 3.62m) with about the same B/D ratio (35%) but while the standard draft of the Salona is 1.98 the one from Arcona is 2.10m and while the Arcona keel is a bulbed one the one from the Salona is a more efficient torpedo keel.

In the end the RM provided by the keel should be similar but the Arcona will have more form, stability. Curiously with that extra stability the Arcona has not more sail area but a bit less ( 86.5 to 88.40m2). I would say that it would need more sail area to compensate the extra beam...but anyway the performances are going to be close.

The designer, Stefan Qviberg , (the same that designs all other Arcona) says about the Arcona 380:

"Early 2000's I was commissioned to design the Arcona 400 and 370 - my goal then was to design something completely new and unique - the ultimate cruiser / racer. A family boat of world class and a racer that would compete well in both in regatta and ocean racing. 14 years, more than 300 delivered boats .... speak for themselves...


Development has since moved with incredible speed... and stimulates now boats with high stiffness and large sail area - for speed in all winds.

...The mission is the same as 14 years ago, but today the competition is considerably tougher. The market offers a large number of boats with different characteristics and qualities in size from 38 to 40 feet...

We will build another elegant perfomance cruiser, a boat with a unique feel and unsurpassed sailing pleasure!

The classic Arcona profile will remain as model as well as comfort and style. A feeling that can only be created in the harmony between thought-out function and woodwork in classic materials and of the highest caliber.

Arcona 380 is going to be easy, stable and deliver a sailing experience far beyond the ordinary. The hull is a natural extension of the line that began with successful Arcona 340. Sailing characteristics of the 340-ball has surpassed even my expectations (2nd on ORCi Championships in Santahamina, total victory Ornö Around this year, etc.). Arcona 380 is a direct development of this model.

Hull, deck and inner liner will be produced with the infusion method, which ensures optimized weight and quality.

Arcona 380 will have a sail plan with non-overlapping headsail and a, relatively speaking, somewhat larger mainsail than previous models. Everything to simplify management and keep costs down on the sail wardrobe.

High stability will be achieved with the same type of composite steel fin with lead bulb of the previously models. .."


The boat is going to hit the water in the Summer of next year...and it seems that they will deliver 5 boats in the Summer, all already sold on the drawings. Now, that is impressive since the boat will only be presented in the Spring.
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Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 10-23-2013
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Oceanis 38 / Luffe 3.6

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
...

The Oceanis 38 has been raising a lo of interest and some of its characteristics are revolutionary at least in what regards mass market boats, namely its interior.
....
Certainly the question is: Are the sail performance completely different and the amazing answer will be no. The Luffe 36.6 will be more rewarding sailing, almost for sure with an overall better performer specially upwind but in what cruising regards it will not be a very big difference with the advantage to the Oceanis in what regards sailing with much less heel and being much more stable and easy to sail downwind (and probably faster, given it the right amount of sail).
....
Regarding sail performance the nice hull of the Oceanis based on Open boat design give the impression that it is a very fast boat even in the category of performance boats. That is not the case and on a recent test with many cruisers on the water (light wind) the Oceanis was not even a match for a Varianta 37 (that is a downgraded and very inexpensive version of an Hanse) while the true performance boats like the Dehler 38 were incomparably better.

That has to due with weight the the poor running rigging, lesser control on the sails, less sail area (related with the boat RM). There is talk of a more sportive version. I doubt it because then the price of the boat would increase dramatically and what is going to make this a top seller boat is what the boat offers already for a very interesting price.
After having post this I have read the test on the Oceanis on the Voile and Voiliers magazine and some more information is available.

They measured these speeds:

With 22k trw at 50º of trw - 7K

With 20/25K trw at 150º of trw - 10K

with 17K trw at 135º of trw -8.5K

So it seems that as I have supposed the boat contrary to light wind performance has a very good downwind performance with strong wind and even upwind with enough wind the performance is very good for such a beamy boat.

But that very good downwind performance was done with full main and a big asymmetric spinnaker. It seems that they had a lot of fun sailing the boat and were also an experienced crew. What cruiser will carry a big asymmetric spinnaker with 22/25K on that boat? Certainly not alone and if with a crew it will have to be an experienced one.

With my boat (Comet 41 s) sailing alone with 25K TRW downwind typically I have a main with one or two reefs and a reefed genoa and even so I am doing about the same speeds they have measured here with a big asymmetric spinnaker. Of course I could went way faster I am sure, with a crew, even with another experienced sailor, with a better sailor than me or even without my wife.

Bottom point, yes, that is a very good sailing boat for a mass main market cruiser with a very good stability downwind and able to carry a lot of sail. If sailed downwind with a lot of sail, a very fast boat, specially if we consider that it is not a performance boat.

Anyway a very stable and easy to sail boat with a good sailing performance even if sailed as most cruisers will sail it, offering a huge interior with a great layout and design quality and that is what most cruisers want and what the boat was designed for.

However it is good to remember that on that Norwegian sail test with the Luffe 3.6, even if not so specific about speeds and sailing points as the French one on the Oceanis, they say that the Luffe, also with Spinnaker will go at 9k with 17k of trw and that seems at least a comparable performance downwind with strong wind, but I bet the Oceanis will be more forgiving and easy to sail on those conditions.

I am sure that upwind and in light winds the performance of the Luffe will be considerably better. Again on the Luffe test they don't give much details but they say the boat will go upwind at over 6.5K and they refer that the test went with winds between 8 and 16K but they did not refer what was the wind speed for that boat speed neither the wind angle, but I am sure it was closer to the wind than the 50º where the Oceanis went at 7K with 22k wind.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 07:26 AM.
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  #4780  
Old 10-23-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
Hi there,

Let mi say that despite many doubts I made up my mind and placed an order for a new Luffe 37.09 a little bit customised according to my needs. The keel would be 1.85 instead of the standard 1.70 to get a stiffer boat (though already the CG Og Luffe 37.09 is lower than that of Luffe 37). I thin that with a B/D of 44% and the CG further low I will have a stable, stiff and fast upwind boat. The mast is moved back a few centimeters in order to enjoy a self-tacking jib adequate to the mainsail: 25/24 sq.m., instead of the standard 26/25 sq.m. This is 2 sq.m. less sail area than the standard configuration but still enjoying an almost 20 SA/D. The reverse sloping stern will have a small teak covered bathing platform with an additional step. Cockpit benches will be extended from 1.30 to 1.70 in order to be able to lie, but with the extension can be removed in order to be able to steer standing if wished placing feet comfortably when'd the boat is heeled on the leeward side of the sloped teak floor. The hull and deck will be vacuum molded with epoxy with balsa core (Oluf uses foam core in polyester hulls only). I wanted to retain the bridge deck (though my wife dislikes it) on which there is a recess for the traveller). I will have a spinnaker pole but instead of a spinnaker I will have a code 1 sail which I liked vey much for easy sailing in lighter winds, which is easily hoisted on its own fulrler, which you can even keep rolled without need to immediate removal. Oluf says that if poled out you can sail it even dead downwind. There will be some modifications inside as well. I know the boat is narrow and tight inside but almost all of the time I will be singlehandling it in the Black Sea and the Med (no ocean sailing and no extended trips in opens sea). But as the saying does better grace than space.The instruments will be placed on a board above the companion way and there will be solar panel on the cabin roof. Integrated autopilot (though a rather expensive option) will be fitted. There are many other details to sort out. The good thing with this boatyard is that you can ask for advice and modifications. The smallest (now in terms of weight and beam) Luffe is a long time bestseller of the yard and they have done a lot to improve the model during the years (and I believe my future boat will be in the same line of improvements).

Ok, this was related to the postings about pros and cons regarding cruising in a smaller performance oriented boat and I wish that my future Luffe 37.09 will be both traditional and modern interesting boat.

Rumen
Congrats on your purchase, Rumen. I am sure you will be happy with that choice. And don't let anyone tell you the Oceanis 38 would have been a better choice. Ridiculous!!
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