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  #481  
Old 12-20-2010
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So PCP, your talk at the Nautic with the guy that purchased the Elan over the Pogo... Any insight into the details of that exchange? I'm curious as both are nice fast rides but I have a penchant for the Pogo. I've never sailed the Elan so I'm curious if it was comfort & goodies or sailing characteristics.

Thanks!
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  #482  
Old 12-20-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
So PCP, your talk at the Nautic with the guy that purchased the Elan over the Pogo... Any insight into the details of that exchange? I'm curious as both are nice fast rides but I have a penchant for the Pogo. I've never sailed the Elan so I'm curious if it was comfort & goodies or sailing characteristics.

Thanks!
No, this guy is interested mainly in racing. The boat did not even had closed wardrobes.

He said that the Elan could go a lot better upwind and that was incredibly stable doing that.

I never had been inside a Pogo 10.50, only inside a class 40, but for what I have seen by the photos, the Elan has a better interior, more adapted for cruising. Of course, the Pogo lifts its keel and can go everywhere while the Elan with a draft of 2.15 or 2.35 is limited. I guess that it all depends on your cruising grounds, but the price is also something to considerate and the Elan is a lot less expensive. The difference in price can buy a lot of racing sails .

Regards

Paulo
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  #483  
Old 12-21-2010
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Thanks PCP,

I would agree on the interior - the Elan looks comfy while the Pogo is spartan. For the closing wardrobes/doors, I guess it may bother some but I think it's OK. Upwind performance would be interesting to see. Polars only tell you so much so first hand experience is critical.

Btw - Congrats on the 350, looks like a very nice boat. I haven't sailed Croatian waters (but I will!!), but it looks like a good option for stomping grounds.
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  #484  
Old 12-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
He said that the Elan could go a lot better upwind and that was incredibly stable doing that.
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Now, lets see the comparative speeds:

(black= J409 Red=D40e Blue=E380 Brown=E350)

6K wind at 70º = 6K (6.7)(6.4)(6.2)

speed 8K wind at 60º = 7K (7.3)(7.1) (6.9)

12K wind at 70º = 8K (8.2) (7.8) (7.2)

25K wind at 110º = 10K (10.6) (10) (9.8)

25K wind at 150º = 10.5K (10.8) (11.2) (11.2).
So here we can compare a Pogo 12.50 with an Elan 380:
(black= J409 Red=D40e Blue=E380 Brown=E350 Green=Pogo 12.50)

OK, The Pogo is a bit longer, but the differences seem to be quite significant. Still this are all theoretical values...

6K wind at 70º = 6K (6.7)(6.4)(6.2) (6.8)

speed 8K wind at 60º = 7K (7.3)(7.1) (6.9) (7.7)

12K wind at 70º = 8K (8.2) (7.8) (7.2) (8.91)

25K wind at 110º = 10K (10.6) (10) (9.8) (13.7)

25K wind at 150º = 10.5K (10.8) (11.2) (11.2) (15.5).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
the Elan looks comfy while the Pogo is spartan.
Yes it is! However I wonder how important that is. Aren't other things much more important when you are on your way?
I think more interesting is the question how much more bumpy a ride with the Pogo is...

A real comfort-plus of the Pogo is the cockpit: Really huge and without an annoying wheel.

And regarding space for the dinghy: Pogostructures writes about the 12.50 "At the back of the boat, a free space will receive the dingy while you change moorings."

Ulf

Last edited by myocean; 12-21-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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  #485  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
So here we can compare a Pogo 12.50 with an Elan 380:
(black= J409 Red=D40e Blue=E380 Brown=E350 Green=Pogo 12.50)

OK, The Pogo is a bit longer, but the differences seem to be quite significant. Still this are all theoretical values...

6K wind at 70º = 6K (6.7)(6.4)(6.2) (6.8)

speed 8K wind at 60º = 7K (7.3)(7.1) (6.9) (7.7)

12K wind at 70º = 8K (8.2) (7.8) (7.2) (8.91)

25K wind at 110º = 10K (10.6) (10) (9.8) (13.7)

25K wind at 150º = 10.5K (10.8) (11.2) (11.2) (15.5).



Yes it is! However I wonder how important that is. Aren't other things much more important when you are on your way?
I think more interesting is the question how much more bumpy a ride with the Pogo is...

A real comfort-plus of the Pogo is the cockpit: Really huge and without an annoying wheel.

And regarding space for the dinghy: Pogostructures writes about the 12.50 "At the back of the boat, a free space will receive the dingy while you change moorings."

Ulf
Ulf, you're speaking to the converted (at least me) regarding the Pogo. The 12.50 would be a dream boat, the 10.50 a more reasonable investment for me.

I have no issue with the spartan interior, but at the same time, for those plunking down 200K€ fitted, I can understand the drawback.

I'm suprized the 10.50 is slower than the ELAN 350 upwind. The 12.50 is a pure racing hull (carbon copy of the new Open 40 class from Finot) and had a big rig so it isn't a suprize to me that it leaves the others in the back of the pack. The 10.50 is a bit more of a compromise design-wise.

My guess is the 10.50 is slower in under 10-12kt wind. Once you get it onto a decent heel around 15-17kts I'd be suprized if it isn't at least as fast. Off and downwind, I believe it would put 2-3 kts on the 350 in like air if it isn't fully loaded. Speed isn't everything of course, and clearly there appear to be some drawbacks that the Elan addresses so it is an interesting debate.
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  #486  
Old 12-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
I'm suprized the 10.50 is slower than the ELAN 350 upwind. The 12.50 is a pure racing hull (carbon copy of the new Open 40 class from Finot) and had a big rig so it isn't a suprize to me that it leaves the others in the back of the pack. The 10.50 is a bit more of a compromise design-wise.
At the same time the 10.50 comes with inconvenient backstays which need to be changed with every tack and jibe while the 12.50 in comparison is nicely comfortable with no backstay.
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  #487  
Old 12-22-2010
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By the way guys:

Why has nowbody mentioned the Sunfast 3200 yet?
I have the impression this is could be a great boat and the interior is interesting: Toilet in the front.
Is there a polar available?


Im am continuously watching out when a Sunfast 4000 or 4300 will show up...

Ulf
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  #488  
Old 12-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
At the same time the 10.50 comes with inconvenient backstays which need to be changed with every tack and jibe while the 12.50 in comparison is nicely comfortable with no backstay.
Certainly no need to adjust on the tacks. The 10.50 does not have a square cut mainsail so the sail actually clears the backstays fine upwind. Downwind, perhaps something extra to deal with but most race boats have this issue anyways so it's not like it is unique to the 10.50. The rigging on the 12.50 is great in this sense and I would imagine at some point the 10.50 could go in this direction. Finot had a 10.50 customized and he took many of the approaches for the 12.50 (backstays, all winches forward and inside, etc) and applied them post production onto the 10.50.

As for the SF3200, there has been quite a bit of discussion on this boat here but I haven't seen anything from someone who actually owns one yet. I havent sailed one and have only sailed on the 32i and 35i Sun models.
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  #489  
Old 12-22-2010
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sunfast3200, Sail boat

You will find polars etc at that link. I'd have one if I could afford one. Altho it would have been the only one in my area. Their was some discussion pretty early on in this thread.

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  #490  
Old 12-24-2010
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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
The Seezunge C is a beautiful catboat. Check out the bar!

Seezunge C | VA Yachtdesign
Wow! That is a really amazing boat. Every boat should come with a built in bar with bespoke cut crystal decanters and glasses in a locking wooden cabinet, and a small woodstove (?!) for those chilly nights in harbor drinking cognac with friends.

And, cat rigged. Quite amazing. Thanks for sharing these pictures, not going to see that at the Seattle Boat Show next month.
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