Interesting Sailboats - Page 492 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1266Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #4911  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
X6 from X-yachts.

WOW!!!!! It looks almost Italian



"The X6 represents the first in a new development of performance cruising yachts. The twin-rudder X6 will utilise the same hi-tech construction techniques as X-Yachts adopted to build their latest generation Xp racer-cruisers, including vacuum infused epoxy with localised carbon for strength, stiffness and stability. It also comes from the same drawing-board as the award-winning Xcruising family.

Combining the best elements of these two world-beating ranges will be an all-new, luxurious and impressively fast collection of performance cruising yachts for state of the art blue-water sailing.
"

The New X6
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4912  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Mini transat

I had already showed my disagreement of how the race committee had acted in regarding the cancellation of the first leg of the race. The way they have made it just makes my disagreement stronger

From Giancarlo Pedote site (translated):

"The stage Douaradnenez - Sada , was not only canceled : it is was if it never existed. This is for the organization , not for the skippers who have made it .


The race committee has decided to tear up the declarations of race retirement and allow all members to bring their boats to land to Sada (which will be the next port of departure) and restart as if nothing had happened .

But something happened :

Approx 400 miles crossing the Bay of Biscay in rough seas , the weather conditions were not easy but we made it with the knife between the teeth. …a minimum of 60 hours of exhausting sailing, for skippers and boats.
...
Giancarlo comments on the situation. " Entering the Gulf of Sada looking for the finish line I saw a Inflatable of about 3 meters that come to me with the engine roaring and told me that the race was canceled . Only then I realized that this was the content of the message I had received on the VHF (with bad reception) when I was about 4 miles from the location of the finish line.

I had completed 99% of the race .

It is useless to hide how strong I was disappointed. In any case, I decided not to make a protest to the race committee…. .

My advantage of 4 hours over the second and the rest of the fleet has to be considered as an aperitif offered to all by Giancarlo Pedote and its ITA 747 . "


Mini Transat. Si rinizia da capo. E i vantaggi conquistati si trasformano in svantaggi.

At least Giancarlo has a sense of humor. In his situation I would have been seriously pissed and I would have filled that protest!!!! It is not fair neither sportive.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4913  
Old 11-02-2013
EricKLYC's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 468
Thanks: 16
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 4
EricKLYC is on a distinguished road
Re: Elan 320

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
... I don't see a tiller version and that's a shame. Maybe they will offer one in the future if the demand justifies it.
Twin steering wheels on a 32 footer ?! !

Best regards,

Eric
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4914  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Elan 320

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
Twin steering wheels on a 32 footer ?! !

Best regards,

Eric
Don't laugh because you are laughing about a lot of sailors

The truth is that they offer the boat with a tiller (that I am sure the designer prefers) but they put all the emphasis on the two wheels because they know it is what most sailors that will buy the boat will want....you know, two wheels like on the big ones...or maybe not.... I don't know much about racing, maybe the two wheels leave more space for maneuver with a big crew? I say this because the new A35 has also a version with two wheels and the guys that buy that boat don't mind much with pretending they have a big boat.

Someone has a take on this or know about possible advantages for crewed racing?

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2013 at 09:35 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4915  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Transat Jaques Fabre

And this Autumn will be a crappy one . Bad weather after bad weather. Now it is the guys from the big transat that say that there is a possibility to having to postpone the race.

Yes, I guess that if going upwind with 50k should be a drag with the racing mono-hulls, with multihulls it would even be worst.

If not plain dangerous I would say that I would like to see that: that's the only way the Open 60's can beat the Multi 50. The Mod 70 will be faster anyway...if they survive and with really bad weather I would not trust much those boats, not racing anyway. Tricky speedsters

Maybe they let go the monohulls and put the multihulls in wait?

"Because of the weather conditions forecast for Sunday night into Monday, what would be the first night at sea for the Transat Jacques Vabre monohull fleet, a decision as to whether to delay the start or not will be announced later on Saturday morning, 2nd November.

At the skipper’s briefing this morning, the organisers of the Transat Jacques Vabre told the assembled crews of their decision.
In fact part of the reason for the uncertainty is that the three main weather models which were presented by Météo France’s Richard Sylvani, Arpeggio, GFS and CEP, do not concur on the timing and exact track of the Atlantic low pressure which is due to pass up the Channel. If it tracks close to the channel as some models suggest then winds with be average 35kts, gusting to 50kts but if it tracks further to the north then winds will be a more manageable 20kts.

And so the organisers of this 11th Transat Jacques Vabre have chosen to wait until the next update of the weather models and decide after tonight, and so the start times and dates for the monohulls will be announced Saturday morning as will decisions about the Mulihulls’ prologue and the timing of the starts for the Multi 50’s and MOD70’s."


Start Decisions Saturday | Transat Jacques Vabre 2013 : Le Havre - Itajai | Novembre 2013 | Take to the seas and act for the planet
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4916  
Old 11-02-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
NCC320 is on a distinguished road
Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo

A good many of the new boats (cruisers) that you have featured, and all of he racing boats, have wide sterns. From what I have read, wide stern boats tend to be hard to control in following seas, and therefore are to be avoided for cruising. My own boat carries a wide stern, and while I am a inshore sailor, steering downwind in any kind of chop keeps the helmsman busy on the wheel to hold the desired course. I could see that this could be very tiresome in significant seas.

Could you or perhaps Bob Perry comment on this. How do the new European boats and racers deal with wide sterns and good downwind tracking/conrol?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4917  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Paulo

A good many of the new boats (cruisers) that you have featured, and all of he racing boats, have wide sterns. From what I have read, wide stern boats tend to be hard to control in following seas, and therefore are to be avoided for cruising. My own boat carries a wide stern, and while I am a inshore sailor, steering downwind in any kind of chop keeps the helmsman busy on the wheel to hold the desired course. I could see that this could be very tiresome in significant seas.

Could you or perhaps Bob Perry comment on this. How do the new European boats and racers deal with wide sterns and good downwind tracking/conrol?
No, not all race boat that I posted have wide sterns. Beamy and wide in what regards racing is typical of solo racers and they are like that to be easier to sail, especially downwind, following seas or not.

That does not mean that one of these if not well designed would not have problem with following seas but one of the reasons they are beamy and with big transoms is to give them precisely more stability and less roll downwind, to make them easier to sail and control by a solo sailor or even on autopilot.

Regarding other fast boats downwind but needing a crew to go fast, these ones are like those bicycles for kids with two small auxiliary wheels. They (the hull/transom) prevent the boat to heel much to either side and keeps the roll to a minimum giving also more power to the boat (more hull form stability) to a cost of some loss in pointing ability and performance in very light winds.

Beamy ones with big transoms work better with two rudders but that has not to do so much with sailing downwind but more with sailing upwind even if I believe that the control downwind is also bettered.

To understand better what you say tell me what boat do you sail?

Bob, please give it a shot

Eric please, give it a help here, does your boat have less directional stability with following seas than more classical boat you have sailed? Any problem in that area? How does your boat compare in what regards that?

(for the ones that don't know Eric owns a performance cruiser directly related with solo 40class racers, same hull and all. You cannot find more beamy or bigger transom among 40ft cruising boats)

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2013 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4918  
Old 11-02-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
NCC320 is on a distinguished road
Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,


It is a Catalina 320. For my purposes, it is very good and I am happy with it. The water I sail in is shallow, and in a wind, we'll get a nasty chop. Either, downwind or a quartering wind, one has to pay a fair amount of attention to the steering. Not a problem with how I use the boat, but if the seas were large and one had to steer for long hours, it could get tiresome, I suspect. The question was one in general for wide stern boats, not specifically as regards to my own boat. The trend seems to be towards wide stern boats as comparied with eariler designs. For coastal boats, this gives more interior room, but my perception, from articles I have read and comments of various boaters, the wide stern is not favored for off shore cruising. True or not? And why? Maybe it's just an old wive's tale and not true for modern designs.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4919  
Old 11-02-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Beamy modern boats and offshore cruising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Paulo,


It is a Catalina 320. For my purposes, it is very good and I am happy with it. The water I sail in is shallow, and in a wind, we'll get a nasty chop. Either, downwind or a quartering wind, one has to pay a fair amount of attention to the steering. Not a problem with how I use the boat, but if the seas were large and one had to steer for long hours, it could get tiresome, I suspect. The question was one in general for wide stern boats, not specifically as regards to my own boat. The trend seems to be towards wide stern boats as comparied with eariler designs. For coastal boats, this gives more interior room, but my perception, from articles I have read and comments of various boaters, the wide stern is not favored for off shore cruising. True or not? And why? Maybe it's just an old wive's tale and not true for modern designs.
All generalizations are dangerous and a boat being beamy and with the beam pulled back is only one of the many elements in a boat design "composition" but I can tell you for sure that the reason why the Open solo race boats are beamy and have big transom is not to have more interior room and also that those boats are not designed for inshore racing but to deep offshore racing.

This should put a end to that non sense in what regards that story about beamy boats with wide stern not to be suitable for offshore sailing, but sailors, specially American ones, are very traditional and are very reactive to any change, so the story goes on at least in America because in Europe nobody says that anymore for a long time. Even the British, the more conservative of all Europeans, have finished already with that nonsense and big and very expensive bluewater boats like the British Oyster, one of the best offshore cruising sailboat, are also designed along the same principle.

The reason because modern cruisers are based more and more on open boats has to do with the fact that this is the hull shape that if well designed can provide more easy boats to sail (that's why it used for solo racers) specially downwind. It provides also for powerful boats and therefore fast boats. They are optimized for downwind sailing being the weakest point upwind sailing with waves, a thing that most cruisers don't do

They also sail with little heel, providing a very stable platform. That is very convenient and it is one of the reasons that makes them easy to sail. They also offer a big interior space and that is even more convenient, but that comes as a big bonus and it is not why they are that beamy in first place.

Regarding bluewater sailing, if you want to travel the wrong side, against the winds, this type of hull is far from indicated but if you want to travel along the trade winds (that is what almost all do) then this is the kind of hull that if well designed make it easier, namely in what regards using autopilot.

Now, about why you have sometimes steering problems in your boat and have difficulty in some occasions to have directional stability, maybe Bob can say why. I cannot help you with that.

Regards

Paulo
EricKLYC likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2013 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4920  
Old 11-03-2013
JAndersB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 467
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JAndersB is on a distinguished road
Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes Anders, but the movie is hosted by the magazine on you tube :

Dragonfly 32 Supreme - YouTube

When I click on the video (on the magazine) it appears a message saying that it is blocked due to lack copyright.

Guys, I am the only one that cannot see that video? I doubt it.

Regards

Paulo
The videos they link to are old videos made the summer before. Have been on the tube for a long time. During the test only photos where shot. Read through the test but basically nothing new. Impressed by trouble free sailing in 12-18 knots. That by the way was a big IF for me. Why move at 18 knots when it feels like 10 knots wit my Opium. It does come with some draw backs.

Quality and second hand value also impressed. Hi load on main sheet traveller a draw back.

Price qouted wrong as usual. Normal set up price close to SEK3 000 000 (appr €330 000).

Anders
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (0 members and 10 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.