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  #4961  
Old 11-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Under IRC there are limits to the number of crew a boat can carry for a given rating, though obviously one can exploit this rule by swapping out 12 sumo wrestlers for 12 school children when the wind goes light.

Practically speaking, of course, it is not easy, at the non-professional level, to find suitable - i.e., competent - crew in adequate numbers to play that game.
What I mean is that if you race with only three you have not any benefice in rating while obviously you are at disadvantage.

Regards

Paulo
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  #4962  
Old 11-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What I mean is that if you race with only three you have not any benefice in rating while obviously you are at disadvantage.

Regards

Paulo
Quite true. As a rule, in classes where there is a weight limit, like the Melges 24 or Etchells, everyone tries to be at maximum weight, regardless of what the weather forecast will be. Indeed, there was enough cheating going on - crews would starve and sit in the steam room, just squeeze in under the weight limit, then go binge on food and drink, adding as much as 8-10 kgs - that now many OD classes require weigh-ins several times during the event, mostly for the health of the sailors.

I have lived that experience first-hand - running for miles in the hot Florida sun to make weight for the M24 class at Key West, then heading straight for the Turtle Bar to gorge on food and booze - and it is not much fun and certainly not healthy. In 2009 I bulked up to nearly 90 kgs for an event and my current weight is 72 kgs, so you can imagine how that was. Other people I know took more extreme measures that I won't mention.

The J/70 and Melges 20 classes have done away with weight limits altogether, so perhaps some sanity is returning to our sport. I know I will never manipulate my weight for racing ever again.
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  #4963  
Old 11-06-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
On a reach that weight will work well, except on very light winds. See it as moving ballast. sitting on the opposite side of heeling they are maintaining the boat more vertical where it sails with less drag and on stronger winds they allow more sail to be carried without reefing. also they can move to the bow (light winds) or to the stern when going downwind with stronger winds giving the boat a perfect balance on any conditions.

They work like water ballast in a boat with several ballast tanks but they change the position of the ballast much more quickly

In fact I think that the weight and number of crew should be penalized on what regards ratting. that would contribute to better boats, more adapted to cruising.

Things seem to be going in the right direction since a duo crewed boat won the last Fastnet, a first, showing not only that modern boats can work better than the old ones with a short crew but also that the ratting is on the right direction.

However I think that they are one considering ratting benefices to duo sailed boats. If they had on a big boat 3 instead of 15, it would not make any difference. I think that should be reviewed.

Regards

Paulo
Yes, but much of my crusing ballast is also in the stern (outboard, dingy on davits, bikes and gennakers in aft lazarettes)...

I have had this discussion several times and I am always amused of beeing accused of having so much cruising gear. At the same time our total crew weight is 207 kg and as I said, located in the rear with the extreas, when trying to plane. How much total crew and crusing weight does for example the Bolt 37 have (and many other crewed racing boats)?

Anders
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  #4964  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Yes, but much of my crusing ballast is also in the stern (outboard, dingy on davits, bikes and gennakers in aft lazarettes)...

I have had this discussion several times and I am always amused of beeing accused of having so much cruising gear. At the same time our total crew weight is 207 kg and as I said, located in the rear with the extreas, when trying to plane. How much total crew and crusing weight does for example the Bolt 37 have (and many other crewed racing boats)?

Anders
Anders - Rest assured, nobody will ever cruise a Bolt 37. For boats like that, you'll have a total crew size of no more than 8 people, with the owner typically having the largest weight. Crew will not be allowed to bring anything on the boat except the gear they're wearing and a carbon toothbrush with the handle cut in half. Perhaps a spoon but only if it's part of their rigging tool. All sails not in use will be stacked on the rail, and shifted after each tack, except for windward/leeward buoy racing, where there will only be a second jib and two kites down below and, perhaps, the owner's credit card.
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  #4965  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
about 4600Ä for the prop but I think plus mounting plus charger unit?
Still pretty expensive for a rather simple product.

Anders
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  #4966  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Anders - Rest assured, nobody will ever cruise a Bolt 37. For boats like that, you'll have a total crew size of no more than 8 people, with the owner typically having the largest weight. Crew will not be allowed to bring anything on the boat except the gear they're wearing and a carbon toothbrush with the handle cut in half. Perhaps a spoon but only if it's part of their rigging tool. All sails not in use will be stacked on the rail, and shifted after each tack, except for windward/leeward buoy racing, where there will only be a second jib and two kites down below and, perhaps, the owner's credit card.
Yes, but what is the add up of 8 big crew with owner at 100kg+. Probably close to 700-800 kg. So in fact my boat has some 500-600kg allowance for extras before we are even even

Anders
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
... with the owner typically having the largest weight. ....
I bet bigger the boat bigger the weight, I mean the owner

regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hey Paulo, great thread you've got going on here. Do you think you could look at/discuss/recommend some performance/voyaging boats on the smaller end of the scale? For instance, the C&C 99 (32ft) has recently caught my eye, and I wonder what other boats would compete in that size/price/performance segment that may be better for fast voyaging.

Thanks!

Brandon
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Voyage small fast boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys05 View Post
Hey Paulo, great thread you've got going on here. Do you think you could look at/discuss/recommend some performance/voyaging boats on the smaller end of the scale? For instance, the C&C 99 (32ft) has recently caught my eye, and I wonder what other boats would compete in that size/price/performance segment that may be better for fast voyaging.

Thanks!

Brandon
Hi, Thanks. We "deal" here mostly with new models and C&C 99 is not made anymore. It looks to me a good design, a fast boat and a good cruising boat. Regarding the quality of building some doubts have been raised about C&C, you can see here:

C&C 99 owners opinions - help pls

This is an old thread but in your case I would send personal messages to those guys that owned the boat at that time and ask if they had problems with the it.

I don't now if when you say voyaging it means the same to me. Voyage is not equal to cruising and demands more autonomy and a boat that can be easy on the autopilot. Regarding modern fast performance boats that you can find in America I don't see any. In Europe I guess we would be talking about the new RM 880:

http://www.hdmedia.fr/visite/popup/7...x-rm-880-.html






Maybe a good time to buy one at a good price since they are making a new model to replace it, the 890 that is absolutely gorgeous:



Or if you have the money for it the RM 1060 or the older model, the RM 1050 that you can see here are even better for voyaging:



Here you can see the 1060:



Another less comfortable but faster option is the Pogo 30 or the Pogo 10.50.

All these boats have the hull based on solo racing boats and that makes them very stable and easier to sail solo. Particularly the RM is thought with voyage in mind.

Regarding what you can find in the States, better ask on the forum, or then, since you want to voyage, come to Europe, buy a boat and sail it to the US.

Maybe you can have luck and can find one in French Martinique. Pay attentions to the boats that are sold there.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Voyage small fast boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi, Thanks. We "deal" here mostly with new models and C&C 99 is not made anymore. It looks to me a good design, a fast boat and a good cruising boat. Regarding the quality of building some doubts have been raised about C&C, you can see here:

C&C 99 owners opinions - help pls

This is an old thread but in your case I would send personal messages to those guys that owned the boat at that time and ask if they had problems with the it.

I don't now if when you say voyaging it means the same to me. Voyage is not equal to cruising and demands more autonomy and a boat that can be easy on the autopilot. Regarding modern fast performance boats that you can find in America I don't see any. In Europe I guess we would be talking about the new RM 880:


Or if you have the money for it the RM 1060 or the older model, the RM 1050 that you can see here are even better for voyaging:


Here you can see the 1060:



Another less comfortable but faster option is the Pogo 30 or the Pogo 10.50.

All these boats have the hull based on solo racing boats and that makes them very stable and easier to sail solo. Particularly the RM is thought with voyage in mind.

Regarding what you can find in the States, better ask on the forum, or then, since you want to voyage, come to Europe, buy a boat and sail it to the US.

Maybe you can have luck and can find one in French Martinique. Pay attentions to the boats that are sold there.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo-

Yep, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for: European boats that would fit into the same niche as the C&C 99 (which, like you said is no longer in production, I was just using it as as starting place). I'm certain that there are a good number of boats that fit in that envelope that I haven't heard of simply because they aren't on this side of the "pond." As to the "voyaging" vs "cruising" thing, I guess my ideal would be a voyaging boat (your definition) that makes a PASSABLE cruising boat once it is at far-flung destinations. I want to see what is at the smaller end of the spectrum than the ~40+ boats since it is likely that I'll be more likely to get a newer/faster boat in the 30-34 ft range in my price range than the larger ones. Thanks for the suggestions so far, I may have to look at the RM 880/890, those look pretty nice.

Brandon
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