Interesting Sailboats

[bb74]

Originally Posted by nemier

Excellent thread guys, thanks for the discussion.
I'm in Trinidad right now with a dial-up connection, so I'll make this brief. Has anyone mentioned the RM 10.50?? This seems to be in the same sort of genre. Any comments? At initial glance, I like this boat!

RM's - nice but haven't sailed on one visited in boat shows.

Pretty good reputation as a do anything boat, but no-where near the performance of the Pogo, Bongo, etc type builds. Well thought out, a number of transat & other trips. Pricey but again, good reputation with the builders & owners.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by bb74

RM's - nice but haven't sailed on one visited in boat shows.
Pretty good reputation as a do anything boat, but nowhere near the performance of the Pogo, Bongo, .... Well thought out, a number of transat & other trips. Pricey but again, good reputation with the builders & owners.

Yes, I agree (not about the price). I have visited the factory and I was impressed. These boats deserve a special place in this thread (as very interesting boats), they are fast, but they are not on the same category of Pogo (or Bongo) so we will talk about them later...I will only say that I like them a lot...and that the RM 1200 is the boat my wife prefers (it could be worse ).

Originally Posted by blt2ski

Here is an english SF3200 site, just do the .com part for french, or hit the french flag in lower left.

sunfast3200, Sail boat
This is supposed to be the equal to a half an open 60. If funds were there, one about 3-4' or about 1-1.5 meters longer would be nicer frankly. But if one ended up in my slip, I'd be a happy camper! Hopefully this depression the US is having ends sooner than later so I can maybe order a new one. if not, then if I am lucky, someday maybe I can find a used one. I might have to go to Europe, oh well, buy use, do the transquandra, sail to east cost US, truck up here to the NW US! or sail thru panama up left coast to Washington where I am.......hmmmmmm

Another that interests me is the Beneteau Figarou(sp?) but the chance of getting one here in the states is slimmer than slim. It is not even listed on the US site, the European sites list it. I have not had a chance to really look it over, but from what I can tell, similar specs design usage of the SF/Pogo boats. Then again, an Open 40 would be kewl too!

Marty

Marty,

BB74 is right. The Figaro are race boats, less comfortable (for cruising) than a Sunfast 3200 and very technical boats…made for the best Ocean solo sailors to fight with equal arms. On the Figaro the guys from the open 60 meet with the kids from the Minis , and the “Figaristes” just to see who is the fastest.

I remember the comment of a well known Open 60 sailor that also races the “Figaro”: He says that perhaps the Figaro could have more “power” but while on an Open 60 they have to manage the boat (not to break) with a Figaro is full blast all the time – the boat can take anything.

But there is another boat that is adapted for what you want. It is an Oceangoing boat, a little faster than the Sunfast, bigger and a lot better under IRC racing: The A35

The boat is a winner. Take a look:


http://www.archambault-boats.eu/main...35PALMARES.pdf

It is also the boat that has won the last Transquadra in Duo. But for the Transquadra they fit the boat with a different Keel, for better efficiency ... but that would penalize the boat under IRC (that’s the stupidity of any rating rule, you do not design the better boat, but only the fastest boat under the rules).

They have a racing version but also a very fast cruising one…and that one comes with a very acceptable interior. Beautiful boat anyway.

BATEAUX ARCHAMBAULT

I believe you want to say a 40 class boat and not an Open 40. Almost all the 40 Class boats on the used market are racing boats. The cruising ones are very few....and with a 3 meters draft you are very limited in what regards cruising. Of course, if you plan to be a rich man , you can buy the new baby from Pogo, the 12.50.

Pogo

This one, like its little brother, the 10.50, has a movable keel and variable draft. An incredibly beatiful boat, even better than the 10.50 and with movable ballast...but at a price that is not for everybody, I am afraid (I want one).

Regarding the availability of these kinds of boats in the States, I would look to Maritinica. Lots of French boats there.

If you have the money go right now for this one :

Opium 39 Martinique

Very good price, very fast boat…and also a very good cruising one.

The Opium 39 is a Lombard designed boat. Its production (very small series) stopped some years back, but the design is so up to date that Wauquiez is going to start producing them, replacing its 40 cruising-racer

Wauquiez - Les Bateaux Lumière

Regards

Paulo

[nemier]

Price again?
It keeps returning to that perpetual thorn in my side...
I'll have to keep looking.
Thanks for the info.

[blt2ski]

Paulo,

Hope you had a good vacation.

The A35 is another that I have seen info on that does look interesting too. I do recall it winning the last transquandra. I do not need an ocean going boat per say, as Puget Sound where I sail in Wa St is reasonably anemic vsoff the shores of Europe or N Americas coast's. BUT< a fast easy t handle SH/DH boat is what I would like, one that the spouse will like the interior on, yet when like today, my 3 older kids, and maybe 3 others hop on board for a race, we can do well crewing it too.

The thing I like about the Jeanneau, is the local dealer, none for the A35 but somewhere up in Calgary Canada? maybe farther east..........Along with the Jeanneau-owners.com site base in England, Fun group to chat etc with. There are some things that in the end, it is hard to put a price on.

Marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by blt2ski

Paulo,

Hope you had a good vacation.

The A35 is another that I have seen info on that does look interesting too. .... BUT< a fast easy t handle SH/DH boat is what I would like, one that the spouse will like the interior on, yet when like today, my 3 older kids, and maybe 3 others hop on board for a race, we can do well crewing it too.

The thing I like about the Jeanneau, is the local dealer, none for the A35 but somewhere up in Calgary Canada? maybe farther east..........Along with the Jeanneau-owners.com site base in England, Fun group to chat etc with. There are some things that in the end, it is hard to put a price on.

Marty

Thanks, yes I had a great time. In April, Soutwest of England almost without rain and with a shining sun is almost a miracle .

I thought racing whould have a bigger importance in your sailing program. Your sailing needs are not far away from mine, if we take away the oceangoing part. Definitly I want an oceangoing boat and I want also a boat where a couple can live in with some degree of comfort for extended periods. Also a boat that can cruise with 6 for some weeks. Definitly I want a fast boat, not only for cutting times on the travel, but mainly for the pleasure of sailing. It is possible that I will make some races, but I am not interested in racing around the cans. Probably some offshore races, solo, or with one of my kids. Spain has some solo and duo interesting races, mostly for amateurs.

Regarding local dealers, big manufacturers versus small series boats, it is a completely diferent story. Yes, with a jeanneau you will have a dealer support, but for the manufacturer you don't exist.

If you buy for instance a Pogo, you speak directely with the guys from the factory and you feel that they have a personal interest in your problems and they will go to a long way to have them solved in a creative way. I guess that before you buy a boat that doesn't have a dealer in your country, you would have to know the guys from the factory, establish a personal relation with them and ask how they propose to solve any problem related with the boat warranty.

Anyway I point out that some of the most exclusive and well made boats in Europe are made in small series, sold directly by the factory and have almost no dealers. But they are so proud of the boats they make that they will consider any defect a boat may have almost as a personal fault and they will make everything to have them fixed in an appropriate way.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by nemier

Excellent thread guys, thanks for the discussion.
I'm in Trinidad right now with a dial-up connection, so I'll make this brief. Has anyone mentioned the RM 10.50?? This seems to be in the same sort of genre. Any comments? At initial glance, I like this boat!

Well you are not the only one liking this boat. This is the more popular boat of the RM range and RM is one of the boat manufacturers that has grown more in the last years. No crisis for RM.

As pictures can say a lot I will post some that are revealing. Take also a look at the interior on the 360º pictures (link at the end)) and at the boat technical characteristics and at some unusual ones: Big tankage, lots of stability (form stability and ballast), big rig, lots of sail, cutter rig, fine entries, twin keels almost racing setup in what concerns running rigging, big interior with lots of light, good quality, comfortable and functional interior with plenty views to the scenery....and made of wood. I mean marine plywood impregnated with epoxy. They say it makes a stronger boat, compared with the fiberglass ones.

RM YACHTS | Le concept

RM YACHTS | RM 1050

That's an unusual boat, to say the least...and if I say that this is a favorite boat among the French bluewater sailors and among the ones that really sail a lot, that it is very difficult to find them at the used market and that it is one of the boats that loses less value....you would have to agree that it is an interesting boat.












Visite 360°


Regards

Paulo

[nemier]

Paulo,
Imagine I'm buying you an RM1050,
is it going to be twin keel or single??

[PCP]

Originally Posted by nemier

Paulo,
Imagine I'm buying you an RM1050,
is it going to be twin keel or single??

That's not possible cause I have not one but I think all of them (10.50) are twin keel. Everybody goes with the twins.

The shipyard says about it:

"Jusqu’à aujourd’hui, nous étions et restons totalement convaincus de l’excellence des biquilles conçus par Marc Lombard et mis en œuvre chez RM : tirant d’eau réduit, couple de rappel optimisé, plan anti-dérive parfait, stabilité de route, capacité à échouer, performances étonnantes à toutes les allures.
Ce principe de biquilles performantes, que nous sommes les seuls au monde à exploiter, reste un des axes fondamentaux de notre politique. Cependant, autant nos clients français en ont parfaitement compris la pertinence, autant les marchés export restent dubitatifs…

A la demande de nos importateurs dans les différents pays où RM est présent (Espagne, Italie, Norvège, Grande Bretagne), nous avons décidés de proposer une version GTE (Grand tirant d’Eau) en monoquille pour les RM1050 et RM1200. Marc Lombard travaille actuellement sur les dessins de quilles, de sorte que nous puissions équiper les RM1050 et RM1200 qui le demanderont à compter de l’automne 2008."

I mean, if you really want, they will make you a single keel (only proposed very recently) but the original concept is a Twin. The twin keels are almost as performant as the single (minimal difference really) and have the added advantage of less draft and the possibility of putting the boat out of the water, for small repairs or antifouling, or just to go at the beach .

The single keel is proposed more for the 1200 and especially for the 1350, for the guys that want to do offshore racing. They are not ridiculous at that. An RM 1200 has done well on a med offshore race against racing boats (3th and 4th) and this 1350 (look at the link) is going to race the "Route du Rhum" (famous and big transat) and I bet that it is going to be among the first cruisers-racers, if not the first (and the boat was not even designed as a cruiser-racer, but as a fast cruiser):

RM YACHTS | Actualités

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

Paulo,

Here where I am at, The SH/DH races are what I would call reasonably short. ie usually less than 30-50 miles, one day we race to a port, next day home or one day race with a 6-8 hr time limit. Local it is hard to get anything much longer, as the shores are too close east to west, WAY too much ship traffic. Puget Sound has more traffic that the next 5 Ports or area's combined at any one time. We have to deal with commerical traffic and shipping lanes a lot.

Reality for me, is a J109 or equal, ala an X34/37 or maybe a 35 are other boats that may work too. The old Jeanneau Sunfast 35 is another that would work well, Beneteau 36.7, the 34.7 or 10R as it is known here in NAmerica is a bit stripped, but it would work.

I do know and understand that in Europe the smaller builders do a bit better than here in NA. Not to say there are not some smaller builders, BUT, the ones that do build here, seem to build "Old Shoes" shall we say or call them. Getting a reasonable high tech style boat like the Pogo, SF3200 or equal is hard. There is someone I recall is starting to build a Transat 6.5 in Texas that is reasonable in price per say. BUT< that is WAY WAY to small for spouse and keeping her happy. There are a few smaller builders, but they do not generally speaking, other than Morris yachts in Maine, seem to have smaller runs of boats. I would not call the Morris boat yard a high tech yard like a pogo. They do build excellent yachts mind you, but not what I would call a style "Marty" wants!

I would luv to live in Europe frankly, the long SH races and such are much greater and compared to some folks here, not taken as a 'WHAT the hell are you doing that for" attitude. OR< they want a tank for a boat to do the job, when in reality, you do not need a tank. Different attitudes.

In the mean time, My 85 Arcadia will have to do. Except yesterday when the bottom 3/4 of my main sail slugs let lose, and had to dump and not use the main sail for a race, still managed a 3rd despite it all! But having 3 of 4 OCS, not sure that it helped the cause. I did see there finish times, and if they started when our fleet was supposed to, I would have beaten them any way! I would have been closer to the winner with a main up, especially the down wind leg!

The RM, does look like one of the Better performing Twin keel models I have seen. altho not sure I would want that boat either. BUT< now we are talking personal likes/wants/dislikes in what we/I want in a boat.

Marty

[bb74]

FWIW - youtube of the Pogo 10.50...

YouTube - cocody spiouestfrance dimanche 4

Maiden voyage they hit 20 knots...



or Spi Quest race...




Makes everything get a whole lot closer!