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  #5141  
Old 11-18-2013
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Sedna 30 / Viko 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubota View Post
You have recently posted about Viko 30s. I have seen this boat on a show this weekend, and didn't like it at all-cockpit is large, but uncomfortable, poorly finished, narrow interior, irregular step height in companionway... Nothing impressed me on the boat.

Rather than Viko I prefer Sedna 30 which I own, and which has been posted on this thread. The price is similar, build quality much better and I really enjoy its sailing performance-just an interesting sailboat My boat is a centerboarder with an outboard engine, so my minimal draft is around 50cm (needed here in Poland-we have some channels with minimum depth of 60cm) I can lay my mast horizontally without any help, to get under the bridge. They can be equipped with a fixed keel as well.

..
Well, maybe you should have sailed the boat to be impressed

In fact the Sedna 30 is a mainstream cruiser that can be compared with the Delphia 31 not with the Viko 30 that is a performance cruiser. Performance cruisers have always less interior space and are less "fat" than performance cruisers therefore for the same size normally they have a better cruising interior.

The Sedna 30 has displacement of 3600kg. The Viko has a displacement of 2750kg, the Sedna has a upwind sail area of 42.7m2 the Viko 30 a sail area of 46.50m2.

This indicates that the Viko would be a much faster boat and also one with a superior RM. The Sedna 30 has more ballast but it is almost all on the bottom of the boat while almost all ballast on the Viko is on a bulb, a lifting one or a fixed one and finally the Viko manages to be less expensive even if normally performance boats are more expensive.

It is normal that you like more your boat. The boats are not pointed to the same kind of sailors. You don't see anything interesting on the Viko and I bet that the ones interested in the Viko would not see nothing interesting in your boat

Different priorities: The ones that will prefer the Sedna will want a boat with a maximized interior in what regards cruising, including height, space and amenities. The ones that will prefer the Sedna will want a cruising boat with maximized performances and for that they will trade a smaller and less comfortable interior, but certainly a lighter one.

If we look to both boats they will clearly show the differences (first the Sedna then the Viko):





























Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-18-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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  #5142  
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European style

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Very interesting. Very Euro.
Hummm, I had already said that your 46ft was a very nice boat but comparing a + 1 000 000 dollar boat with 40 to 45 000 euros boat and then say that the cheap boats look very European it is not fair.

For that you would have to look to European production similarly sized top quality boats (and some not even that). There are for all tastes and even if we cannot say that there are an uniformed style we can call it European, we can see some different trends.











[URL=http://s804.photobucket.com/user/Paulo_Carvalho/media/design/cruising-sailboats-twin-steering-wheel-3-cabins-20312-4993793_zpsa9f2b996.jpg.html]























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Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-18-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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  #5143  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I didn't say, that Viko doesn't sail well. I just said, that it didn't impress me, especially the interior quality was poor. Visit the boat on a show, and you'll know wiat I'm talking about.

I like to sail fast, I'm not a lazy cruiser, and feel really happy with Sedna... 8.3kn isn't bad for a 9m centerboard cruiser
My point wasn't to criticize or promote any boat. I just wanted to share my impressions about this interesting sailboats, whic were posted here(i consider myself to be the only one here who has seen them and sailed two of them(sedna 26 and 30)).

Btw, I would say, that you can make any boat, a really fast one. Excluding Delphia, most of the polish boatyards are open to your demands, so, as long as it doesn't mąkę the boat any dangerous, you can have anything you want-interior layout, rigging, keel, lifting keel, centerboard, extra ballast, bigger sails etc...
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  #5144  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Hey,

it is really goodlooking. I never heard of this. They also plan to build a 40footer: Sedna 40




Greets to poland, love your country!
The hull looks nice, ore modern than the one of the 30ft and that torpedo keel too. Curiously Viko is also making a 40ft but the images are not yet on line.





Poland have been building boats from the French and Italian shipyards for a long time, lots of them , It is time that more Polish brands join Delphia on the international market.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5145  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubota View Post
I didn't say, that Viko doesn't sail well. I just said, that it didn't impress me, especially the interior quality was poor. Visit the boat on a show, and you'll know wiat I'm talking about.

I like to sail fast, I'm not a lazy cruiser, and feel really happy with Sedna... 8.3kn isn't bad for a 9m centerboard cruiser
My point wasn't to criticize or promote any boat. I just wanted to share my impressions about this interesting sailboats, whic were posted here(i consider myself to be the only one here who has seen them and sailed two of them(sedna 26 and 30)).

Btw, I would say, that you can make any boat, a really fast one. Excluding Delphia, most of the polish boatyards are open to your demands, so, as long as it doesn't mąkę the boat any dangerous, you can have anything you want-interior layout, rigging, keel, lifting keel, centerboard, extra ballast, bigger sails etc...
Kubota let me be clear, I was not saying badly about your boat that seems to be a nice one and I believe you when you say that the finish of the Viko is poorer. I was just pointing out that they are not the same kind of boat and the Viko seems to have a very nice and fast hull. It is certainly a performance boat way faster than your boat. again I am not saying that your boat is slow but it is not designed as Viko is with maximizing speed and some racing in mind.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5146  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo:
I think you misunderstood me. I was simply saying that the boat in question has a very Euero look to it in nterms of it's overall styling. I like that look. It's not a look I would try to design because there are tool many designers who do that better than I do.

Your post shows some very beautiful boats that I would say, right or wrong, are in the "Euro" style.
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European, American boat design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo:
I think you misunderstood me. I was simply saying that the boat in question has a very Euero look to it in nterms of it's overall styling. I like that look. It's not a look I would try to design because there are tool many designers who do that better than I do.

Your post shows some very beautiful boats that I would say, right or wrong, are in the "Euro" style.
Sorry if I did not understand why you have posted your 46ft with that coment regarding European style.

I really don't believe that we can talk about an European style:



























We have basically contemporary designs that have a more or less strong inspiration in traditional and classical forms and we have contemporary modern designs. Among the moderns there are several lines, from relatively narrow boats to very beamy boats with strong influence of the solo racing boats. All of them have modern underbodies. I cannot see a single line that you can call European but several design lines.

And then if we have an European style we would have an Australian and NZ style and an American style. Regarding NZ and Australian designers they work for European boat builders, some Americans too.

On this times of globalization I cannot see what is a contemporary American boat style.

Sure you design nice boats but are they American designs belonging to an American style? I am not saying that there is not one but if there is I would like to understand what it is. I mean probably we can talk about a 60's and 70's American boat style but now, regarding contemporary design in these days of globalization?

What is the sharp edge of the American contemporary yacht design? and in what is different from the European one, assuming there is an European one as you say.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-18-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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  #5148  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Beautiful shots on that last post, Paulo.. What boat is that one that's snow/ice bound??
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

All beautiful boats there. It sounds like you take euro style to be said with a bad intent which I didn't get. The last picture in your post is what I would certainly refer to as a euro style which I happen to really like but those lines (mainly the arch shape to the cabin top front to back) are reflected in 4-5 of the boats pictured.

As far as American style, just take euro style and subtract the style and innovation and there you have 'american' style. American buyers just seem to like tried and true and with the state of the american sailing scene it's really hard for a boat builder to want to take chances so hard to blame them.

Personally I am trying to figure out how to get some of these beautiful boats over here to my neck of the woods!
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  #5150  
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Bestevaer 56ST

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Beautiful shots on that last post, Paulo.. What boat is that one that's snow/ice bound??
That is the same design posted below, a Bestevaer 56ST a Gerard Dijkstra design. I mean below here and below on previous post.



This is a 55ft with a fixed keel:



Tranquilo, the boat that is "planted" on the ice"according to the designer, this yacht is to be classified as 'Spirit of Tradition', being traditionally styled but showing powerful performance characteristics such as a fine entry, shallow canoe body, lift keel and a balanced spade rudder, Hall Spars carbon mast and carbon Park Avenue boom, North Sails 3DL sails, one-line reefing system and water ballast tanks.
.....
The customer opted for a Bestevaer after a sea trial with Bestevaer 53 ST 'Alice'. According to him, the yacht performed extremely well. He was looking for a fast yacht that he would be able to handle single-handedly"


http://www.techmarineyd.it/Bestevaer...0Tranquilo.pdf

Well, if some that posted on a thread about size and safety are reading this they should be thinking this guy is crazy and that such a big boat cannot be solo sailed safely. Well they are wrong:

"The Bestevaer 56ST Tranquilo was stuck in the snow and ice way up in Northern Canada for 10 months(!), and just last month broke free. Four of those months were spent in near complete darkness. The owner has been world cruising the beefy 56 for five years. Singlehanded."

snowed in | Sailing Anarchy

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-18-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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