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  #5191  
Old 11-22-2013
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Gabart goes to multihulls.

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Un trimaran aux couleurs du groupe Macif en 2015 | Macif Course au large
Did you recognize that Gabart follows Le Cleach into the Multihull circus?
No, did no new that. It seems that these guys don't care if it is a monohull or a multihull, they just want to go faster and to arrive first, not in a class but overall and for that they need a multihull.

He joins not only Le Cleach but also Jean-Pierre Dick three of the most talented Ex Open60 sailors.

It seems that the top solo sailing class now are not the Open60 but the Mod70 even if it is hard for me to understand how they can sail those power monsters safely solo. The boats were initially conceived to be sailed by a crew of 6 only some few years back.

I guess that for them sailing an Open60 non stop around the world was too easy Certainly doing that on a monster like that will increase hugely the level of difficulty...and also the speed.

Maybe on the next Vendee we will see two classes: Monohulls and Multihulls

Regards

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  #5192  
Old 11-22-2013
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Transat Jaques Vabre - Mini Transat

And has I have thought catching Riou in such a short time was almost impossible. Marc was again the fastest on the last 24 hours but recovered only 6Nm over Riou and it is now at 36nm. He is going to make a desperate attempt going near the beach were it seems to exist better wind but Riou has good wind till the finish line so no way to recover that distance. Unless something happens to his boat it seems we have a winner.

Curiously this two, I mean 1st and 2nd had very bad luck on the Vendee having both to retire on the beginning of the race, so good for them, they deserved not to have always bad luck.

On the 40class it seems that the 2nd and 3rd (Riechers and Pella) had done a huge mistake not following the course of the 1st (Rogues) trough the Doldrums. They were winning in pure speed and now they have lost hugely on the strategic play (or luck).

Fact is that Rogues is practically out of the Doldrums, still winning over both and have already increasedhis advantage over Riechers to 77nm and over Pella to 99. Those two lost in a day all that they have recovered with lots of work during almost a week.

That's racing. Let see what they are able to do now in pure speed since from now till the finish it is not complicated in what regards strategy.

Transat Jacques Vabre 2013

Regarding the mini transat:

On the weak winds (around 6K) it seems that Pedote's Bath tube bow racer is finally losing to the more conventional boat of Benoit Marie but not much, about 5nm on 24 hours. It seems that the weak wind is not constant and is mixed with 10/12K winds and that is just what Pedote's boat needs to be faster again, at least downwind.

In what regards downwind sailing the disadvantages of the bath tub boat face to a conventional design are really very small. It seems that only in very weak winds (8K or less) the boat is at disadvantage, but those winds are not frequent on the trade winds.

In about one day and a half Pedote is going to find typical trade winds, absolutely perfect conditions to his boat, between 14 and 17k and then he would say goodbye to everybody. Till then it is possible that Benoit can catch him or even overtake him by a small margin but then Pedote will go away easily.

Cartographie | Mini Transat 2013 - Douarnenez / Lanzarote / Pointe-à-Pitre

I guess this kind of proves (two consecutive victories on the transat) that the Bath tube bow concept is unbeatable in a transat or in a race done basically in the trade winds. I hope that this will make the difference for David Raison to get some commands to design 40class racers according to the same principle because if this works for the mini I cannot see no reason not to work for 40class racers, Open60's or any kind of sailboat to race on this conditions.

And it is not only me that thinks that way, much more knowledgeable people think the same. Look at this design by Riechel & Pugh for sailing on those conditions at record speed:







Probably the reason that there are not already 40class designs with a bath tub bow is because sailors aesthetically hate that bow as much as me but we will have all to adjust our tastes the same way we have adjusted regarding hugely beamy boats that once were looked as ugly as those bath tube boats are now. They used to call them "dishes", well, not anymore and almost all today will find an Open 60 a very nice design, even with the particularity of that huge beam.
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Last edited by PCP; 11-22-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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  #5193  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The reason why there is no Scow-40 is because it is forbidden by the rules (maximum width in the foreship is limited)....
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  #5194  
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class40 rule and Bath bow tube

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
The reason why there is no Scow-40 is because it is forbidden by the rules (maximum width in the foreship is limited)....
That was not on the rules last year:



I don't like the way the bathtube bow looks but this seems not right at all. It is a modification clearly intended to protect the existing fleet from innovation.

It would be understandable if there was a safety problem but that bow does not make the boats unsafe. Even if the harder motion could have been considered a safety problem they could have for safety reasons have draw a limit but this is ridiculous, what they say is that the bows remains like it is, and that's it French don't use to be so conservative but I guess they are not prepared to trow all the boats away. They would become obsolete in what regards a transat. That's sad anyway, specially for David Reason.

I heard that they are going to do the same thing regarding the Open60's rule.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5195  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

"This looks like the shape of a 10 or 15 year’s old cruiser!!! That is really odd…"

Nice one Paulo, I agree.
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  #5196  
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Tantoon Class40 bathtub bow

Thanks Bob!

Regarding the bathtub bow, on a class 40 doesn't look that bad, not really a bathtub bow now-more but a rounded one, at least on this nice study by Tanton, an American NA and also a member of this forum. (I hope he does not mind to have his designs posted here).





Tanton Yacht Design: Atlantic Cup 2013 -Newport
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  #5197  
Old 11-23-2013
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Transat Jaques Vabre - Mini Transat

Nothing very interesting on the race right now: Le Roux has maintained the leadership om M50 and won the race, Riou is going to win on Open60. That plan from Marc to try to catch the wind near land turned sour and he risks to be cached by Beyou and on Class 40 Rogues continue to go away, having better weather conditions than the two pursuers (Riecher and Pella).

The attention for a "fait diver": Look at the priorities of Rogues and Delahaye when they commemorate the Equator crossing. First a toast to the sea that have allowed them to reach there, then to the boat that has stayed in one piece and only then to them that have being doing a fantastic race, leading fir a long time.

That's what I call having the priorities straight


JOUR 16 - GDF SUEZ (CLASS'40)- Transat Jacques... por TransatJacquesVabre

On the mini transat as previewed on the very light winds Benoit is catching Pedote and it is at only 11nm now. These conditions will continue for a day or so being mostly light winds but happily to Pedote from tome to time there are patches of medium winds (10/12K) and that is all he needs to be faster again.

In less than two days he will have optimal conditions to his boat and then Benoit will not have any chance to keep up.
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  #5198  
Old 11-23-2013
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Voyage boats: RM 1360

Today I will post about a new voyage boat. Of course any cruising sailboat with a given size is able to voyage or to circumnavigate even if the ones that designed the boat never took that in consideration when they designed it. For voyage boat I mean the ones who were designed taking voyaging in consideration as one of the main points of its sailing program.

There are not a single type of voyage boat and in what regards this particular several types are chosen by different types of sailors: From slow but very resistant steel boats, passing by aluminum centerboarders, sturdy fiberglass boats to more light and fast sailboats built in several materials.

The RM 1360 (44ft) belongs to the last category: Fast voyage boats as Marc Lombard sees them, a new boat that comes to substitute the successful 1300, a very similar one.

The boat is built of marine plywood and epoxy, materials that are strong and can be easily repaired. This shipyard is building voyage boats with this material for decades and it is one of the few that have not been affected by the crisis. It is a very well proven recipe.

For many years these boats, that are primarily built as twin keels (even if they have a mono keel option) were exclusively used by French cruisers but on the last years there has been a vast interest from other European countries and last year the smaller brother (1260) won the European contest in the category of family boats, a considerable feat if we consider that category is the one that regards the main market and this is not properly a main market boat.

The twin keel version even if not as performant as the mono keel does not lose much in speed or pointing ability (incomparably less than the typical wing keel versus deep draft fin) and allow the boat to be beached for repairs or cleaning the hull. That's the most sold version by far.

These boats in what regards hull concept follow the line of Open solo racers that provide easily driven boats boats with a great stability, huge interior space and lots of power. Not a boat indicated if someone wants to voyage in the wrong direction, I mean against the prevailing winds, but those that do that are almost existent and the rule regards extensive voyaging is to follow the trade winds. On that case this boat offers a huge directional stability, very little roll, easy to run on autopilot even at speed, adapted to solo sailing, little heel while sailing and a very good speed. Basically what offer their racing cousins that are designed that way by the same reasons: easy speed downwind.

Speed in a sailboat has a lot to do with weight and this is a light boat (9400kg) and also with stability and this boat with a beam of 4.5m a deep draft of 2.45m and all the considerable ballast (2950kg) on a lead torpedo, has plenty stability and power.

Of course, 2,45m can be a lot for cruising and some places and that's one of the reasons why the twin keel with 1.95m of draft is by far the more popular. You need a smaller draft? Sorry these are performance boats and without draft you don't have a decent performance and they don't have any option for that. To keep the performance it would be necessary a lifting or swing keel and they don't offer it because probably it would be a very expensive option.

These boats can look similar in the hull concept with for instance an Oceanis 45, but if we look to both hulls we can see that the bow sections on the RM are more elegant and less fat while the weight and mainly the sail area are very different:

Oceanis 45/Rm 1360: 10549kg to 9400kf and 100m2 to 112m2.





Well, let's the pictures speak for themselves:



































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Last edited by PCP; 11-23-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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  #5199  
Old 11-23-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Always been intrigued by these.. interesting that the visible chines don't scream 'homemade' anymore Paulo have you been aboard an 'old' one that's been well used? Curious if they 'hold up' as well (or better) than the typical GRP boats.

Dual rudders an option? only on single keel?
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  #5200  
Old 11-23-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Always been intrigued by these.. interesting that the visible chines don't scream 'homemade' anymore Paulo have you been aboard an 'old' one that's been well used? Curious if they 'hold up' as well (or better) than the typical GRP boats.

Dual rudders an option? only on single keel?
Yes, the have a very high price on the used market, even older ones and that means they hold up well. The only thing needed is a new painting from 7 or 10 years of use but this is an wood boat so if one is not too preoccupied with a pristine look its is a job that can be done by everybody.

Regards

Paulo
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