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  #531  
Old 01-12-2011
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High is no advantage

We are agreed, really; without the measurements I’m just not sure that the Hammerhead 35 is so high.

The determining factor is often the height of the cockpit; you do after all need some head height to step down into the saloon, and that determines the height of the coach roof. Low cockpits are in favor with me, but you hear people worrying about the low-down decks of the “Open” style – I guess they have visions of being swept overboard by a wave

High cockpits can be the result of engine placement, and more frequently by the demands for rear cabins. This is how centre cockpit boats often come to look absurdly high.

While on the issue of prejudice: I heard one sailor reacting to the “low freeboard” of a boat, viewing it as a safety issue. This must be a throwback to the old-style ketches and Colin Archers and so forth, very tall structures. They make you feel high and safe from the ocean - until the waves begin, that is. If I were to seek safety, I’d certainly not be looking for boats with a high freeboard.

I am very curious to see how the Moody 45 will be received, and now others trying to follow, such as the Beneteau Sense. These attempts to bring cockpit and saloon to a "walk-through" common level don't do much for windage, though they appear very convenient.
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  #532  
Old 01-13-2011
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A 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by OsmundL View Post
We are agreed, really; without the measurements I’m just not sure that the Hammerhead 35 is so high.

The determining factor is often the height of the cockpit; you do after all need some head height to step down into the saloon, and that determines the height of the coach roof. Low cockpits are in favor with me, but you hear people worrying about the low-down decks of the “Open” style – I guess they have visions of being swept overboard by a wave
...
While on the issue of prejudice: I heard one sailor reacting to the “low freeboard” of a boat, viewing it as a safety issue. This must be a throwback to the old-style ketches and Colin Archers and so forth, very tall structures. They make you feel high and safe from the ocean - until the waves begin, that is. If I were to seek safety, I’d certainly not be looking for boats with a high freeboard.

....
It is high for a performance boat. Take a comparison with the A35, one of the most beautiful and successful of the really fast 35fter (more than a hundred sold). A lot Less free-board and a lot less cabin height. Off course it will be more low inside (it has standing height on the saloon), but on a really performance boat designers should give preference to warranty less windage.



Yes you are right about high freeboard. It is one of the worse features in what regards dynamic stability and breaking waves.

About the Archimbault 35, I think I have talked about it but not posted about it. It is a wonderful boat for the ones that don't mind about open cabins. The boat has everything it is needed for cruising and is also a very good offshore boat an ideal boat for solo sailing. Regarding racing, it has won an incredible number of major races. I find it more beautiful than the Elan 350, even if the Elan has better cruising interiors (it has doors ).

















I have been inside one of these and I can tell you that it has a cosy interior and that it really does not have that "plastic" look many of these boats have.

BATEAUX ARCHAMBAULT

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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  #533  
Old 01-13-2011
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Farr 400 and J108

More novelties:
J-boats have a good name in the industry, and they now embrace lifting keels. The J95 (pictured below) was already available with a lifting keel and earned a Boat of the Year Award, and now the J109 can be had under the name J108 with a lifting keel – or a “pivoting centreboard”, in J-Boats terminology. Keel down gives the same 7ft keel depth as J109, but withdrawn it can sail in 4ft. Yes, they claim it can sail with the keel up.
J/Boats: Better Sailboats for People Who Love Sailing. The Ultimate Cruising-Racing-One-Design Sailboats. Try J Sailing Gear, Sailing Clothing, Sailing Calendar, Caps, Vests, Jackets, T-Shirts, Books

For the racing crowd, what better than a Farr 40? It has been a fixture at race meets for a very long time, but now it has an heir: the Farr 400.
The Farr 400 hasn’t got a natural fiber in its body, other than the lead in the keel. Farr merely calls it “an all carbon 40ft racing yacht” and they’re not just referring to the hull. The mast is of course carbon, but so is the standing rigging, and the two primary winches are carbon.
The ballast ratio is 60% - you’re meant to do some low flying upwind. Do I have photos of the interior? Nah – the people wanting Farr 400 probably couldn’t care less.
Farr Yacht Design
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Interesting Sailboats-j95_boty_final_575px.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-j108_cabin_575px.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-j108_sprit.jpg   Interesting Sailboats-farr-400.jpg  
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  #534  
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And a new X-Yacht

X-Yachts 38
When you want to combine performance with comfort, I think it is hard to go past X-Yachts. These Danish boats are quality throughout, and you can be fooled by their looks – they appear too luxurious to be performers – but they are.
The new X-Yacht 38 won’t be available untill summer, but in that size range it won’t be short of customers. The Polar diagram says it will do 12 knots in around 20 knots of wind, with foresail only it is meant to reach 14 knots when the wind builds to 28 knots+
In the new model, X-Yachts’ customary steel frame construction is replaced with a carbon frame.
X-Yachts
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  #535  
Old 01-14-2011
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Dear OsmundL,
this is not new to us. XP38 has already been discussed in this thread: see page 56. I think we should try not to repeat ourselves even though this thread is already quite long. Obviously any new entrant is recommended to read from the beginning in order to avoid useless repetitions.
I think the more repetitions we collect here the more difficult it becomes to get or keep an overview.
Best Regards,
Ulf
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  #536  
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Apologies

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Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Dear OsmundL,
this is not new to us. XP38 has already been discussed in this thread. Best Regards,
Ulf
Profound apologies! I actually did a Search for it in the thread just to be sure, because I could not recall it being discussed. The search came up with so many false leads - lots of mentions of Bavaria - that I gave up and felt safe.

I'll be more cautious now - very cautious. And probably very quiet
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  #537  
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:-)
Actually I really like the XP38 very much.
It is in the same price range like your Ovni. What do you think about the two in comparison? What would you miss on an XP38?
Ulf
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  #538  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
:-)
Actually I really like the XP38 very much.
It is in the same price range like your Ovni. What do you think about the two in comparison? What would you miss on an XP38?
Ulf
Hi ulf.

I think the boat you should compare the OVNI is not one from the performance series of X-Yacht, but from the Xc series (c for cruising). There is also a 38 on that series (a recent boat). We have talked about it and it's a great boat even if it represents a completely different aproach to cruising, compared to the one from OVNI. I also would be interested in hear what Osmundl think about the two in comparaison taking as departing point his cruising needs.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-14-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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  #539  
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Rave rave rave

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
:-)
Actually I really like the XP38 very much.
It is in the same price range like your Ovni. What do you think about the two in comparison? What would you miss on an XP38?
Ulf
Bloody good question! I have to think carefully about this, and I’m not even sure my initial response will be the final. I have the sinking feeling that it will end up with Pros and Cons.

To get one elephant out of the room right away: I am not going to say “Aluminum”. While I have preferences for it, I do not think material choice is decisive – composites also have a lot going for them.

Rig: I sometimes wish for the X-38 rig. My Ovni has a large overlapping Genoa, which is great for going downwind on Genoa alone. On the other hand it is heavy to tack and slow to furl, but most of all the X-38 balance with a larger main sails sharper and gives finer control upwind. In favor of the Ovni, its rig is massively strong, with enough stays to keep an Airbus from lifting. A couple of years ago I stupidly headed into a 38-knot wind without a single reef (being lazy, I knew I was rounding a cape in 5 minutes if I could last). It felt surprisingly safe (though it would have moved faster with a reef or two). An inner forestay on the Ovni gives you the option of a small jib, handy.

Keel: When all is said, I suppose this would be the decider. It is where the X-38 gains a sailing advantage, but Ovni’s lifting keel is more than a gimmick. Some examples: I’ve hit a huge timber log in the North Sea; the keel tipped back undamaged, the rudder likewise – I’ve also risked light groundings with barely a scratch in the antifouling. It sits flat on sandy beaches like a brick – I can get out and scrape barnacles at will. Less obvious: in marinas with Med moorings and anchor chains lurking everywhere, you lift the keel and don’t worry. That keel is going to save me a lot of money. You also motor with the keel up, BTW, gaining some 0,2 knots. I would like the Ovni to point higher, but that applies mostly to light winds < 7 knots or hard wind > 30 knots.

Hull: Ovni has a very steady motion in sea, should be sailed relatively flat (<10-12 degrees heel is normal) and holds its course. In steady breeze on a tack I skip the autopilot and tie down the wheel, she goes like a train. In the long run, the greater heel of an X-38 becomes a (dis)comfort factor, even though she’s a fine boat in sea.

Cockpit: this is clearly a subjective preference, but X-38 is just too open for my kind of sailing. I need a sprayhood – indeed I replaced the canvas sprayhood on Ovni with my very own fiberglass structure, giving far better visibility in rain. In combinations of cold, wind and rain, some shelter in the cockpit is virtually a necessity for enduring 10-12 hours of sailing. This is something you know for sure in situations when top standard Musto ocean gear over wool in several layers still leaves you cold. The human machine must also function.

Finish and such: X-38 is exquisite craftsmanship and Ovni does not try to compete on luxury feel. The emphasis has been on practicality, keeping costs down, while still giving a timber feel inside and a pleasant environment. For me the quality is easily sufficient, and things just work.

Climate: I cannot speak for the X-38 here, but doubt that the Ovni can be beat for interior climate. It is so dry and condensation free that it surprises me every time. Left for months in winter without heating it is drier when I return than when I left it. This is due to insulation, good ventilation through dorades, not to forget a deck and cabin that is hermetically sealed from water – all welded deck fittings and no through-hull bolts.

Practical details: Once you’ve had a strong targa like mine, you’re spoilt. Every day you sling a rope around it for some purpose, lower a dinghy – or as the kids of a friend: dive from it! Installations go there – antennae, wind genny, a radar, EPIRB. A bosun’s hook tucks in.

Overall: I am impressed with all X-Yachts. This is very individual, but if I should have a reservation about them (and all of their type) it is that they give you some extra performance but not enough. If your focus is regatta, they fit right in. If you enjoy fast sailing, why not go all out and really notice the speed?

The Ovni is adequate and can be fun; a friend recorded a max of 11,6 knots on his maiden voyage in a 365. I count averages of 5-6 knots long distance and become very impatient if it drops below 5 knots. 9 knots downwind on Genoa goes well, and a Gennaker fills in the gap. In most conditions you’re talking 1-2 knots more in X-38, but in heavy seas probably less. Sometimes when we judge sailboats, we rely too much on optimal wind, and they are after all not the rule. You spend a lot of time out there...
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  #540  
Old 01-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OsmundL View Post
More novelties:
J-boats have a good name in the industry, and they now embrace lifting keels. The J95 (pictured below) was already available with a lifting keel and earned a Boat of the Year Award, and now the J109 can be had under the name J108 with a lifting keel – or a “pivoting centreboard”, in J-Boats terminology. Keel down gives the same 7ft keel depth as J109, but withdrawn it can sail in 4ft. Yes, they claim it can sail with the keel up.
...
I have seen that one at the Paris boat show. It has a very well made interior with good quality overall and it is a very nice boat with an interesting concept, but I doubt they are going to be a success. They would not directly appeal to the more oriented racing sailors and at that price!!!! ...You could get a much bigger and faster performance cruising boat.

Regards

Paulo
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