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  #5401  
Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
... MOD 70 Paprec-Virbac is up for sale ...A casualty of poor management and communication by the hodgepodge Franco-Suisse bosses as much as a dire economy in parts of Europe, JPD learned what most suspected and the MOD Class discussed before the first boat was ever built: These things really are just too much for shorthanded or singlehanded sailing.
...
I don't see why do you say that they are just too much for shorthanded orsinglehanded sailing: The two that made the last transat with duo crew had not any problem and Franck Cammas solo sailed a much bigger trimaran on the last route du Rhum and won the race. In fact the smaller boats, the Multi 50 are easier to break and to capsize has the accidents in several races have shown.

Bad economic moment in Europe and shortage of sponsors for expensive machines it seems to be the main reason of the problems with the viability of the M70. Anyway next year we will have the Route du Rhum and I bet that several of them will be sailed solo on that transat.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5402  
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Re: Atantic 47/ Catana 47/ Lagoon 450/ Outremer 5X/ Salona 60/ Sense 50-55/ Jeanneau

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, nice boat. I now that Chris White performance Cats are great but they have a lot of sail and you better pay attention to squalls and freak meteorological phenomena (lots of them in the med). I looked about the bigger sister on the net but could only find this movie and there are not so many around (8?)

Don't take me wrong, for sure they had too much sail out than prudence would recommend, but that's the point, on a performance cat you have to be prudent and pay attention. Not the kind of boat for me, I am not prudent enough and I know it. Maybe a trimaran, they give you a much better advise when you are going out of the reasonable and give you also more time to react. Note that this is only applicable to performance cats, heavier cruising ones with a lot less sail are much more harder to capsize and safer boats.
Regards

Paulo
Don't worry for this, now you can install an automatic sheet release system.
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Re: Atantic 47/ Catana 47/ Lagoon 450/ Outremer 5X/ Salona 60/ Sense 50-55/ Jeanneau

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Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
Don't worry for this, now you can install an automatic sheet release system.
They have them on the racing offshore multihulls.....but that does not prevent them to capsize...at leas always.

edit: it seems that I am saying that fast multihulls are dangerous and that is not what I wanted to say. No, they demand an experienced skipper and prudence in what regards the amount of sail carried in bad weather or unstable conditions like squalls, but they are obviously more tricky to sail than a comparably fast mono-hull, that typically will be a slightly bigger and a performance cruiser.

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Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo, Is true that a fast boat is dangerous than a slow boat, like cars, motorcycles, airplanes, trains... Always an inexpert skipper can do all bad and has a capsize, then is better that those people just sail in slow boats, mono or multi hulls.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
Paulo, Is true that a fast boat is dangerous than a slow boat, like cars, motorcycles, airplanes, trains... Always an inexpert skipper can do all bad and has a capsize, then is better that those people just sail in slow boats, mono or multi hulls.
There is a difference, in a mono-hull an inexperienced skipper can broach and even get knocked out but but if it is a decent boat he would not get capsized. A good monohull even fast is about as fool prof as it can be. It will be necessary a breaking wave of a considerable size to capsize the boat. On a multihull all is needed is a lot of wind and an inexperienced sailor. Even experienced ones sometimes got it wrong even if very rarely.

A fast multihull demands a more experienced sailor to be sailed safely than a fast monohull and also more care and attention from an experienced skipper.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo- you make a great point. A monohull will just heel more and dump air off the tops of the sails before it reaches the point of vanishing stability. Whereas a multi won't and is just as stable upside down. Similarly it takes a bunch to pitchpole a mono. However, have had opportunity to blue water sail a tri. Boy is it a kick. And for day sailing it don't take much air to get a good multi going and the smiles to appear. I made the same decision as you for day to day cruising unless you're always going to be in shoal waters a mono makes more sense for folks like us. You talk about voyaging. It's interesting to see how many prior monohull voyagers make the switch to multihulls. They must have something going for them. The ability to stay afloat for one and fast passages for another. Whole new learning curve and I'm an old dog.
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Monohull versus Multihull

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Paulo- ... I made the same decision as you for day to day cruising unless you're always going to be in shoal waters a mono makes more sense for folks like us. You talk about voyaging. It's interesting to see how many prior monohull voyagers make the switch to multihulls. They must have something going for them. The ability to stay afloat for one and fast passages for another. Whole new learning curve and I'm an old dog.
Out, I think you did not really understood me. Probably if I had the money for it I would be cruising on a trimaran. For me the Dragonfly 35 would be enough, not to my wife and I would need a bigger one that does not even exist (it exists a Dragonfly 40 but its is old and slow). The new 40 will be probably the next boat on the Dragonfly line. The 35 costs already about as much as your boat so you can imagine how much would cost a 40. That is really why I sail the type of boat I have, a fast 41ft performance cruiser...lack of money and the boat that suits me more regarding my budget.



I mean, the Dragonfly for the type of sailing I do: Coastal cruising with a lot of passages in between in the 4 best months of the year, because if I cruised extensively and lived in the boat permanently I would have an Outremer 5X, assuming I would have the money for it. For living all the time in the boat all that space would be more then welcomed and having a 59ft has fast as a 70ft fast monohull would be irresistible. I guess that I would have to learn hoe to sail conservatively, going at 16K when I could go at 20

Off course, all that I have said previously is true but all is relative and many circumnavigated on Outremer without any problem even if I know at least of one (45ft) that had capsized.

Fact is that big multihuls like the Outremer 5X have in what regards bad weather advantages and disadvantages: They are more uncomfortable in bad weather, they can capsize if too much sail is used but without any sail or just a tiny amount of sail they are much more dificult to capsize than any monohull of the same size or even bigger. They would need a breaking wave twice as bigger (or something like that) than the one that would capsize a monohull of the same size. of course, after being turtle they have the big disadvantage of not getting back to their feet again.

Things are what they are, advantages and disadvantages. The biggest multihull disadvantage for me is their price (fast ones) and the superior price of marinas and maintenance.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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  #5408  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Then if you can try to get a peak at the Chris white boat and save your pennies. What are you sailing now? Took at brief look at prices. The Danish boat is less money new. Have you sailed the farrier boats. Close friend is a dealer.they're a hoot for coastal sailing. Maybe you could put one in your garage and splash it when you need some jollies. Personally still all smiles with my boat. Don't see a multi in my future. Get old and totally decrepit be on a norhaven.
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ARC - Oyster 655

The next boat to arrive was the first 40ft, a racing Pogo 40class racer (9th), not very well sailed, I would say.

Last year the the 1st to arrive was a 40class racer, Vaquita, that beat a brand new Swan 80 with a big racing crew. The guys from Vaquita are great sailors and this year they moved to play on the big league. They made the Transat Jaque Vabre on class 40, making 8th out of 23 boats but even so finishing at one day and a half from the first (yes there are incredibly good sailors doing that race).

Six hours later arrived a boat that made an amazing transat, a Oyster 655 (11th), a medium weight very comfortable cruiser. They made almost the same time as the boat that arrived on its tail, very close, a X50, a smaller performance cruiser. That's true that the Marten 49 (performance cruiser) had arrived already at 17 hours but it is a remarkable performance for a medium weight boat and shows why the Oyster are today the paradigm of modern big comfortable production bluewater cruisers.

The 655 is a recent boat (2008) even if it has already been substituted on the Oyster line by the 665 that is in fact a MkII using the same hull.

"The Oyster 655, designed by Rob Humphreys, is a member of the new g5 generation of cutting edge Oysters, utilising carbon fibre and Kevlar to keep weight to a minimum.The 655 has been designed to cruise the world’s oceans in comfort and style with an emphasis on performance. "

Regarding the Performance of the Oyster 655 on the race it is enough to say that had beaten by 11 hours the second big cat, an Explorer 60, a relatively fast cat of almost the same size.

The photos are from the 655 Acheron, the one that made the transat:











We associate this type of boats with very rich people that hire a racing crew for sailing their yacht. This is not the case. They certainly have a great crew but the skipper is the owner (a hell of a sailor) and they use the boat for charter. They seem to be very nice people and if someone is thinking in going sailing on a big boat on vacations, well, I guess that this one is not a bad choice, at least they know how to sail the boat properly

"Brendan and Lois are a professional couple with a love for the ocean and of sailing...
Brendan grew up on the east coast of Australia and has sailed all of his life with his family. He moved to the UK to pursue a professional career in yachting and in 2009 was the skipper of Spirit of Australia in The Clipper Round The World Yacht Race. The race circumnavigated the world and his yacht was the winning boat arriving back into the UK in 2010.

Brendan is also an RYA Yachtmaster instructor and is in his element teaching guests how to sail this beautiful yacht. He also loves to waterski, kitesurf and dive. ...

Lois and Brendan met sailing on the waters of the UK in 2008. Lois has been a chef on board luxury charter yachts in Thailand, the Meditteranean and the Carribean with Brendan. She grew up in a fishing village on the Dorset coast of the UK and spent her childhood in or on the water. She loves to kitesurf, windsurf, surf and any other activity that involves being on the ocean.

Lois comes from a medical career but transitioned to life on the ocean wave with Brendan in 2010. She trained at Ashburton Cookery School in Devon. Lois cooks fresh and delicious healthy meals....Together, Brendan and Lois are the perfect hosts for your sailing holiday on board Acheron."


Oyster Marine | Charter | Acheron | Overview

Well, it seems very appealing to me
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Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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  #5410  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Then if you can try to get a peak at the Chris white boat and save your pennies.
That one I don't understand. How a 47ft (Atlantic) cat that costs practically the price of a 59ft (Outremer) faster cat with the double of the interior space will save me anything? Anyway I have no money for any of them nor they are adapted to the type of sailing I do. For Voyaging and living extensively aboard I would be much more interested on the Outremer: Faster, nicer, with a lot more interior space with a better design and costing almost the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Took at brief look at prices. The Danish boat is less money new.
I guess you looked here:

2013 Dragonfly 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

2013 - Dragonfly 35 US$ 376,504

But I don't get it. That should be an absolutely naked boat and it is not the performance version I was talking about.

Look at the price of a 4 year old 35 Dragonfly on the US: USD 350,000

Lest time I checked the boat new and equipped went for something like 450000 euros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Have you sailed the farrier boats. Close friend is a dealer.they're a hoot for coastal sailing. Maybe you could put one in your garage and splash it when you need some jollies.
Dealer? The Farrier are production boats? Or are you talking about the Corsair?

No, the Corsair has not the same kind of finish, interior comfort and cruising potential the Dragonfly has and as I have said I do not want a boat to day sail. I cruise and live on the boat for 4 months a year and make several thousands of miles each year. My wife would not do it on a boat with the interior space of the Dragonfly 35. The type is okay and she likes the speed but I would need a 40 or 50ft trimaran for the interior space she needs to feel comfortable. A 50ft would have about the same interior space of the boat I have now. If the Dragonfly 35 costs that price, we would be talking probably of a boat costing a lot more than 1 million euros. That is completely out of question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Personally still all smiles with my boat. Don't see a multi in my future. Get old and totally decrepit be on a norhaven.
I am satisfied with what I sail. It is among the best I can afford and maintain for the life and sailing style we like. When I am old and decrepit I would change for a boat the same type as yours but with electric winches and computerized docking system

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
What are you sailing now?
I have replied to that question a lot of times on this forum

One of these:

Yachts and Yachting Magazine ? Expert Sailing Techniques for Dinghies, Keelboats and Cruiser Racers, Bob Fisher's America's Cup Blog - Comet 41s Review


Comaryachts

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-11-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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