Interesting Sailboats - Page 543 - SailNet Community
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post #5421 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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The first video with the new the RM 890, directly from the Nautic de Paris:


RM 890 : 9 mètres d'espace et de lumière por voilesetvoiliers

Voile and Voilers says about the boat:

"The much waited 890 RM that replaces the 880 does not disappoint on the quality of its design and on its accommodation: every detail of this Lombard Design is designed to facilitate navigation. The interior is bright and spacious and the boat feels like a much bigger boat. ..."


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post #5422 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
take all mine out. I never say anything useful anyway.
when I am talking about deleting is this kind of chit chat conversation in the past, and this one after some time. It only matters now. I disagree with you you have made good contributions to this thread and the last one in a discussion with me about Monohull/Multihulls.

I express my opinion but the value of the thread is not only in my opinion but on all opinions, yours included and on the discussion about them. I will not delete any of that but if you go back and look at the post you will see that many are not relevant anymore, like this one will not be in some days.

Regards

Paulo


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post #5423 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013
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Re: The original Yachts had already a bath tube bow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Back to the word Yacht, it seems to be changing again of meaning. On the 50's and 60's yacht was a pleasure boat of some dimension, but a 40ft boat was already called a yacht, a small yacht but a yacht nonetheless. Now, at least in Europe, if someone is referring to his boat as a yacht and the boat has not more than 60ft, he is being pompous. The denomination of yacht seems to have been reserved now for large pleasure motorboats or sailing boats. Smaller ones are just called as sailing boats or motor boats.
At least in the United States, near as I can tell, stretching back well into the 1800's, the word 'Yacht' merely meant a private vessel (as differenciated from a commercial vessel) and did not have a size associated with it. Years ago I read an article about a sandbagger race that took place shortly after the US Civil War. In that article, they described an incident where there was a colision between an "18 foot yacht" which hit a 'Livery boat' with a church group on board. Similarly Kinhardt used the term, "Small Yachts" in the 1800's to include boats which were as small around 20 feet.

I also understand that this may only be a North American English formal use of the word, 'Yacht'. In common parlance non-sailors seem to assume that there is a size and grandour associated with the word ,"Yacht" which technically is not a part of the definition.

Jeff


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post #5424 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: The thread

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Originally Posted by bjung View Post
The sailnet search engine has always been useless. If you google what you are looking for and include "sailnet", all is fine. How about starting "interresting sailboats part 2", that should alleviate most problems without having to resort to gutting this valuable thread.
Yes, Probably I would start an interesting sailboats II thread when I have too but if this thread is to be keep as a resource and information thread I want to keep it as relevant of possible. I don't want to gut it, see it like taking all fat and bones away and keeping only the good meat

If have to trust me on that but I am the first to want to keep this thread as good as possible. I want to maintain all opinions, discussions as well as relevant information, including posts about boats and delete all the rest including some seasonal information like posts following races that happened more than a year ago. That's nice to follow them here in real time but nobody is going to read that stuff one year after.

Regards

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post #5425 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Interesting results of the ARC...
It just seems that when it comes to cruising and long distance passages, the speed advantage of the multis is just not there...

On another note:
Could anyone explain me how the TCCs are calculated?
I mean 1.652 for a volvo 70... Ok, but at the end of the list is a tp52 with 0.951 (if the last boats all have the same)... 2 pogo 40 with different ratings and a pogo 12.50 with an even lower rating... I do not get it...
http://www.worldcruising.com/content...ion%20List.pdf

Edit:
Keep this awesome thread going - it was the one which hooked me...

Last edited by capt vimes; 12-13-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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post #5426 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Old posts and changing opinions: Two wheel setup

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I would have also preferred a tiller and as second choice a single wheel, but what I was trying to say is that if it was a single wheel it would have to be a big one.

Andrew, on a large transom boat like that, it would have to be a big one because the comfortable steering place would be seated on the side of the boat. If the boat had a small wheel, for example the size of one of the dual wheels, you would not be able to reach it from the sitting position. You would only have a steering position: Standing. Not very comfortable

...
A good thing regarding looking at old posts has to do with rectifying opinions when one change them.

Regarding this subject and after being sailed for two years a demanding boat with a one big wheel and also several boats with two wheels, including similar performance boats my opinion changed.

Yes , there is nothing like the feel a big wheel can give you but if you sail solo and on a boat were, like on most of the boats, the winches are not at the reach of the wheelsman, then going forward to adjust them, particularly on a heeled boat or in bad weather is much more difficult, takes more time and can be more dangerous than on a twin wheel system.

Giving those disadvantages, the superior accessibility to the winches and also the easiness for entering the boat from the quay I would say that I would prefer a two wheel system even if my boat as a big sensitive wheel. There is not by accident that all boats are changing to a twin setup, including the new version of my boat.

When I had wrote that post I did not have my present boat neither I had sailed a performance boat with a two wheel system. The Salona 41, that I had sailed after, proved to have a good sensitive feel at the wheel, even if had a two wheel set up, so that is possible. I sailed also a Dufour 425, a very nice boat that had also two wheels but on that one the feeling was everything but sharp.


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post #5427 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: The original Yachts had already a bath tube bow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
At least in the United States, near as I can tell, stretching back well into the 1800's, the word 'Yacht' merely meant a private vessel (as differenciated from a commercial vessel) and did not have a size associated with it. Years ago I read an article about a sandbagger race that took place shortly after the US Civil War. In that article, they described an incident where there was a colision between an "18 foot yacht" which hit a 'Livery boat' with a church group on board. Similarly Kinhardt used the term, "Small Yachts" in the 1800's to include boats which were as small around 20 feet.

I also understand that this may only be a North American English formal use of the word, 'Yacht'. In common parlance non-sailors seem to assume that there is a size and grandour associated with the word ,"Yacht" which technically is not a part of the definition.

Jeff
Jeff, maybe you misunderstood me or I have not being clear. What you said happened also here. What I am saying is that now, at least in Europe, nobody would be talking about a 18ft yacht. That would be regarded as pompous. It can be only here and on the US they are still calling yachts to dinghies but probably it will change. What I said was:

"Back to the word Yacht, it seems to be changing again of meaning. On the 50's and 60's yacht was a pleasure boat of some dimension, but a 40ft boat was already called a yacht, a small yacht but a yacht nonetheless. Now, at least in Europe, if someone is referring to his boat as a yacht and the boat has not more than 60ft, he is being pompous. The denomination of yacht seems to have been reserved now for large pleasure motorboats or sailing boats. Smaller ones are just called as sailing boats or motor boats."

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 12-13-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Personally find best "feel" is with a tiller, second with single wheel as moving less hardware. Given unless you are doing round the buoy races 95% or greater of the time boat is on AP if cruising so this is not a big issue for many sailors. Similarly given the no moving parts reliability of a tiller for voyagers a tiller may make great sense. With a tiller you can just tilt it up so the whole cockpit is clear when at anchor. Think it a shame fewer and fewer boats are offered with option of 1 wheel or two or tiller.

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post #5429 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Irc

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
Interesting results of the ARC...
It just seems that when it comes to cruising and long distance passages, the speed advantage of the multis is just not there...

On another note:
Could anyone explain me how the TCCs are calculated?
I mean 1.652 for a volvo 70... Ok, but at the end of the list is a tp52 with 0.951 (if the last boats all have the same)... 2 pogo 40 with different ratings and a pogo 12.50 with an even lower rating... I do not get it...
http://www.worldcruising.com/content...ion%20List.pdf

Edit:
Keep this awesome thread going - it was the one which hooked me...
Thanks.

The boats are rated under IRC. IRC does not rate a model but each particular boat depending on sails, carbon masts, canting keels, and water ballast among other things. The rule is revised each year taking into account the race results from the last year. It is a secret rule and only the RORC Rating Office and UNCL Centre de Calcul in Paris (that own the rule) are able to attribute a ratting.

An Introduction to IRC

Offshore Documents

That's a lot more sophisticated and close to the boat's real performance than the PHRF or the Nordic LYS but in my opinion a let loss sophisticated and accurate than ORCI. Problem is that the French and the British use it while the ORCI is used more by Italians even if now is spreading quickly to Germany and Nordic countries. There was talking about unifying the two rules but it seems that the installed interests are too big

That's pretty ridiculous, here top race boats have two keels and change them according to the rule. Not a big difference but it can be enough for winning.

Regarding those two different ratings to two Pogo 40's (class 40 racing boats?) it has probably to do with the sails they have and age allowance (older boats have automatically a lower rating then new ones).

Regarding the big difference of those two Pogos 40 to the Pogo 12.50 (slower boat) it has to do with the 12.50 being a cruiser and the others racers. The Pogo 12.50 has the same hull as a Pogo class 40 racing boat but a smaller rig (without back-stay), a swing keel (the others have a racing keel with more draft - 3.0m) and does not have water ballast tanks.

By the way that beautiful hull that was posted by G1000 is a Pogo 12.50 hull, the one from his own new sailboat that is being built.

Regarding the TP52 you are mistaken. There is no rating there for it. The one you mention is attributed to a 8,5m boat a small cruising Pogo.

The IRC rating of a TP52 should be around 1360. The Tp52 is a top racing boat and the one that was making this Transat was a very poor sailed one.

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 12-13-2013 at 12:33 PM.
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post #5430 of 6763 Old 12-13-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Thank you PCP - that explains a lot...
The outremer 64, which made line honours in the ARC+, is an austrian boat... Did not know that...

Back to the new RM...
I think that the place for the working winches just aside the companion way is somewhat awkward...
But a beautiful boat.
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