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  #5461  
Old 12-16-2013
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Django 12.70 - Django 9.30 and Django 6.70

Great news from the shipyard Marée Haute, the one tha makes the Django 6.70 and 7.70 that I mentioned on the last post:

They are doing not one but two new and very interesting boats: A 12.70 and a 9.70, on the same principles that are used on the smaller boats. Based on Open solo racers, fast, very light, a good cruising interior and an attractive price.

The design will be by Pierre Rolland a designer specialized on this type of boats and they will be certainly fast. Few things are known about the 9.30, except this drawing:



Regarding the 12.70, that will be ready on the Spring, will share the same market as the Pogo 12.50 (also has a swing keel) we know a lot more and for what we know it looks great







Lots of light inside the boat, an interior that will look more spacious than the one of Pogo (due to the light and outside views) and a fixed spraywood are some of the innovative characteristics.

Regarding dimensions and comparing with the Pogo 12.50:

LOA ..........Pogo 12.50m / Django 12.70m
Beam .......... Pogo 4.50m / Django 4.35m
Draft.............Pogo 3.00m - 1.20m / Django / ...- 2.90m
Displacement..Pogo 5.600kg /Django 6000kg
ballast...........Pogo 1.900kg /Django 2 200 kg
Upwind SA .....Pogo 100m2 / Django 114m2
Downwind SA..Pogo 210m2/Django 226m2

It looks good to me (it even as doors) and probably it will be slightly faster than the Pogo 12.50: A little less beam, a lot more ballast, a very similar weight and more sail area.

I cannot wait to see this one on the water

In the meantime we have to content ourselves with the little own, nominated to this year's European boat of the year contest and with good chances of winning in its category.


Essai "100 milles à bord" du Django 6... por voile-magazine

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Last edited by PCP; 12-16-2013 at 06:51 AM.
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Lagoon 39

This is not the type of boat that I would like to have but many would call this a condo marina boat and that's just unfair. The boat is what it is with its strong and weak points but it is good to remember that a 44 Lagoon finished the last ARC among performance cats, most bigger ones and performance monohulls of about the same size or bigger So, the boat is not as a bad sailing boat a many want us to make believe.

The boat, as all these type of cats (without movable foils) has a poor pointing ability but it sails well on all other points of sail...and many coastal cruisers just motor upwind, having them a Cat or a monohull.

The Lagoon 39 offers better sailing potential than previous Lagoons, a lot of space and a lot of boat for the money. This one is one of the least expensive cats, costing about 270 000 USD.

Sailors are not easily deceived and the huge success this boat has been experiencing in what regards sales means that it is the right answer for many cruisers.

Here some comments from a Yachting Today boat test:


"There can’t be many sailors who haven’t at some time seen a Lagoon catamaran passing them by..whatever you might think or say about its looks, however, this stalwart range of cruising catamarans has proved extremely popular – both with long-term liveaboards and casual coastal sailors alike.

.. Monohull sailors are always astounded at the sheer volume of accommodation and deck area of a cat – myself included...

A great deal of thought and listening to existing clients has pushed Lagoon into radically redesigning its sail plan. Some might say it has even regressed, closer in fact to much earlier designs such as the famous Prout range. As with all the new series, the 39’s mast has been moved back to the center of the boat, both increasing the foretriangle and reducing the mainsail area and boom length. This makes them more balanced under sail, as well as easier to handle. Although mainsail furling has become popular over the past couple of decades, the extra weight and jamming risk of the ubiquitous in-mast reefing system is not ideal,especially on a catamaran.

..So Lagoon might have made a sensible move here, even more so by making the jib self-tacking, eliminating the need for long lines across the coachroof and additional blocks, clutches and winches.

Those seeking the very best performance under sail, can order a full Code 0 (gennaker) kit, which includes bowsprit, blocks, winches and large 732sqft (68m2) overlapping headsail for an additional £12,535 including bowsprit and deck gear. There’s also a choice between standard or square-top mainsail, the latter adding a further 65sqft (6m2) of sail area for another £324.

We sailed on a gentle day with a cool nor’ westerly blowing. ...
She does feel nicely balanced on a reach and happily tacks from beam to beam despite the self-tacking jib going around immediately. Along with the mast, the keels have also been moved aft, which enables her bows to go through the wind more easily without needing to back the jib. .. She won’t tack under main alone, but then this is unsurprising for any cat.

Of all the cats I’ve sailed, the Lagoon 39 seems to be one of the easiest, both to handle and to move about on. She's fast yet calm, well balanced while still giving feedback to the helm and comfortably spacious below without the feeling of vulnerability under sail that some wide-open boats can impart.

The quality of construction is very good, with no corners cut or obvious scrimping to meet an accountant’s bottom line, and the redesigned sail/rig plan is a definite improvement. ....

The many benefits of owning a catamaran over a monohull for cruising are all apparent here in the 39. She has heaps more interior volume than a 40ft mono, deck-level panoramic views from her saloon and acres of outdoor deck space for relaxing as well as working on the boat and its equipment."


Lagoon video



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Last edited by PCP; 12-16-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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Who better than Jeff Johnstone to talk about the J88?



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Back to the Django 770... a new and faster version.

They have a new version with deep keel (2.0m) more RM and a sail with more area. This baby has become even nicer





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Old 12-17-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Love the Djangos. The 12.70 will be a great passagemaker. Can't await to see pictures of the interior of both...
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

it really scares me, if i see a production boat with such a thin and flimsy keel blade...
it might be OK for a well maintained race boat which is more on the dry than actually sailed, but a cruiser? even if labeled racer-cruiser...

heck - the open 60s get there keels replaced even more than once a year and still they tend to snap and fall off, as seen in this years edition of the vendee globe...
how many keels did part with the hull? safran, virbac paprec (although JP dick managed to finish), acciona... am i missing one?
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Old 12-17-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
it really scares me, if i see a production boat with such a thin and flimsy keel blade...
it might be OK for a well maintained race boat which is more on the dry than actually sailed, but a cruiser? even if labeled racer-cruiser...

heck - the open 60s get there keels replaced even more than once a year and still they tend to snap and fall off, as seen in this years edition of the vendee globe...
how many keels did part with the hull? safran, virbac paprec (although JP dick managed to finish), acciona... am i missing one?
You need to put this in perspective. No cruiser will ever sail his/her boat at the outer limits of its performance window - i.e., pushing hour after hour at sustained speeds of 20+ knots, in big breeze and seas, for thousands of miles, under racing conditions. Just isn't going to happen. In which case, the only thing one should be concerned about is the ability of the keel strut to sustain impact damage from striking submerged objects like containers, tree trunks, sharks, etc., or grounding. That's a legitimate concern, and I'm sure the designers of the Django 7.70 have taken it into consideration when developing the specifications for this particular keel.

Ultimately, in my opinion, this configuration will appeal primarily to sailors interested in performance cruising which would include participating in events like the Transquadra. Indeed, I was looking online at an Archambault 31 for sale in Spain that swapped out the standard fin keel for a strut-and-bulb percisely to improve performance in the 2011 Transquadra, in which it ultimately finished 2nd overall in the doublehanded division. I suspect most people who buy a Django for cruising will opt for the twin keel. For me, I would go with the strut-and-bulb configuration because I still intend to race, as well as cruise.
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Keels

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
it really scares me, if i see a production boat with such a thin and flimsy keel blade...
it might be OK for a well maintained race boat which is more on the dry than actually sailed, but a cruiser? even if labeled racer-cruiser...

heck - the open 60s get there keels replaced even more than once a year and still they tend to snap and fall off, as seen in this years edition of the vendee globe...
how many keels did part with the hull? safran, virbac paprec (although JP dick managed to finish), acciona... am i missing one?
The problems with the keels on the Open 60's has nothing to do with it. They know already what is the problem that has to do with the fact of being canting keels and with metal fatigue due to movement and stress. They are still developing knowledge that in some years will be applied to cruising boats.

The Django keel has nothing new and the technology that is behind that is well known and used successfully in race boats for many years and they don't change the keels neither they have problems with them. You have also to consider that the Django 7.70 on that version weights less than 1400kg and that keel will probably have about 500Kg. Consider also that this boat, in his unsinkable version is the smaller boat to have passed RCD class A certification.

Regarding what a "flimsy" keel like that can take look at this video (min 2.40) and take into consideration that the boat had already suffered an identical treatment when it was
throw to the beach by big waves. At the end the keel was alright and it was needed just small repairs on the rudders for the boat to be able to be sailed back from Brazil to France again.



Take also in consideration that this was a production race boat (a Pogo) that it was not a new one (it had 6 years and many races) and that it had the original keel.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-17-2013 at 07:28 AM.
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Sydney 43 by Salona.

What seems to be the first Sydney built by Salona was presented on the Nautic de Paris. The press was impressed by the quality of the finish and by the building quality.

The boat was a Sydney 43, an incredibly fast cruiser racer, the won that won last Sydney-Hobart (compensated) and that made an incredible race in real time finishing among the big yachts.

The boat is not a striped out racer and allows cruising, a bit like a Pogo 12.50, in a kind of Spartan way, but with everything that is needed, including a big sail pleasure



















The press was surprised with the quality and I was surprised with the price: 380 000 euros including 20% VAT. That is a great price taking into consideration the type of boat. This is a very light boat with 6950kg but most of all the biggest part of that weight is ballast. That needs an hugely strong hull to be able to sustain the loads that such a B/D ratio will create. This type of boats is always very expensive to built.

I hope they succeed in Europe. I believe that what is needed is two or three boats racing at high level... and I am sure, winning a lot

This risks to be the first Ker design to be sold in considerable numbers and not only to very top racers.
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Last edited by PCP; 12-17-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Love the Djangos. The 12.70 will be a great passagemaker. Can't await to see pictures of the interior of both...
,,,count me in on that one
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