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post #5481 of 6763 Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Sunfast 3600

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That compares with what the French had measured:

15K trw downwind with spy asymmetric - 8.9K speed

15K trw 38 of trw - 7.2K

The speed downwind seems to be a bit worse but the French sailed with 15K ahd the Germans with 15/20K .
Did the explain what they mean by "downwind"? It would fit to the 180-data from YACHT magazine.

Wave height was about half a metre...
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post #5482 of 6763 Old 12-20-2013 Thread Starter
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Seascape 27

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Maybe the Seascape 27 is the Pogo's little brother
I don't know how it would compare with the Pogo 30. It would be fun a comparative test sail

Seascape, as the name indicates means fun at sea and fun they have even if the boat seems very fast in real time but not so fast on compensated. Who cares about compensated the fun is beating on the water a lot of bigger boats and that is what the Seascape is all about







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post #5483 of 6763 Old 12-20-2013
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Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

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Not fair to compare the A35 with the cruising Dehler 38. Even the more cruising version of the A35 has similar building specs with the Dehler 38R, not with the less expensive version. The Dehler 38R is hugely more expensive than the cruising Dehler.

Not saying that the cruising Dehler is not an overall better cruising boat than the A35, probably it is but in what regards racing it is miles apart.

Regards

Paulo
If you are looking for a boat for cruising I think it is very fair to compare the A35 to the Dehler 38, for instance. And in general I find the A35 very expensive.

Anders
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Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

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If you are looking for a boat for cruising I think it is very fair to compare the A35 to the Dehler 38, for instance. And in general I find the A35 very expensive.

Anders
Top performance boats are very expensive. Try to see hoe much it costs a top Dehler 38 and you will be surprised.
Sure we can compare in what regards cruising, but the one that is interested in those boats and the one I was talking to is Pelicano and he wants a boat more for racing than for cruising. I agree that for cruising a Dehler 38 makes more sense in what regards price/performance/cruising comfort. In what regards that I think the real competitor is the Salona 38 that offers about the same for less.

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Last edited by PCP; 12-20-2013 at 06:32 PM.
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post #5485 of 6763 Old 12-20-2013
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Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

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Top performance boats are very expensive. Try to see hoe much it costs a top Dehler 38 and you will be surprised.
Sure we can compare in what regards cruising, but the one that is interested in those boats and the one I was talking to is Pelicano and he wants a boat more for racing than for cruising. I agree that for cruising a Dehler 38 makes more sense in what regards price/performance/cruising comfort. In what regards I think the real competitor is the Salona 38 that offers about the same for less.

Regards

Paulo
Quite so. I don't know anything about cruising, only about racing. So even if I am buying a boat that I will cruise sometimes (when I learn how), I still plan to be racing a good deal of the time. And I'm also in a minimalist frame of mind, which means I'm willing to dispense with certain comforts / conveniences in return for performance. That's one reason I'm so favorably inclined toward the Pogo 30, though it is not an inexpensive boat. But we've talked about this before, and the money you spend on a Pogo is money spent on saving weight, and the strength / durability of the hull and appendages for offshore use.

A couple of comments on some of the preceding posts:

1. The Sunfast 3200 racing on SF Bay is not particularly well-sailed. I'm thinking they are sailing PHRF in the YRA Summer Series, which is not very competitive compared to the IRC and One Design regattas in that location. In the video you'll see nobody is hiking very hard, people spending too long on the low side, and a screwed up spinnaker set, etc. They're having fun, of course, but it would be more interesting to see that boat racing in IRC against well-sailed performance cruisers.

2. I've been in love with the Seascape 27 since it was first proposed and the Sam Manuard design revealed. And clearly they have delivered exactly what they promised: a fast, fun, versatile little offshore racer, that can embarass bigger boats head-to-head, even if its rating is a bit painful. In the one video of the Croatia offshore race, the 4 Seascape 27's are not "official" entries, as they didn't meet the minimum length requirement. But they were allowed to race anyway. On the Seascape Facebook page we were speculating that the race organizers were attempting to protect the feelings of big boat owners who spent too much money to be crushed by a little 27ft trailerable swing keeler. Even though I have been agonizing over RMs, Djangos, A35s, A31s, Pogo 30s (and Pogo 3s), the more I'm thinking about return on investment, the better the Seascape 27 looks. True, it is not Class A certified, but you could certainly bring it into compliance with some additional investment of money - e.g., make it unsinkable, for example. Hoping to get a chance to see one once the two boats coming to the U.S. arrive (assuming I make it to Florida for the Laser mid-winter events).

By my estimations, a well-equipped Seascape 27 would set me back about $115K / 85.000 (or perhaps 10% more than that, factoring in shipping and import duties, etc.). I'll try to find out from one of the U.S. owners with whom I've been communicating.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program: "Interesting Boats".

We deal in lead, friend.
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Fun on a J70



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post #5488 of 6763 Old 12-21-2013 Thread Starter
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Great: The transat of Benoit Marie

Don't lose this one. Great movie: The race of the winner of the Mini Transat.

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post #5489 of 6763 Old 12-21-2013 Thread Starter
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Knierim P33

The First time I heard about Knierim yachrs was when an almost new 65fter (a Botin design) won the ARC.

It turns out that it is a very specialized German shipyard that for years had made carbon high performance boats by command of some of the more important designers an that know decided to commercialize its own brand : Knierim Yachts.

I know some of the boats built there like the Ker 50 Varuna. They have also build besides that big and fast 65fter and the ker 50, a KNIERIM 50, an ELLIOTT 57S, a 53' Performance Cruiser, a 60' Daysailer e several other mostly big performance cruisers and racers.

The exception regarding big yachts is a very interesting 33fter, the P33, this baby:









The boat is beautiful and when I look at the dimension of this judel/vrolijk design....well, I want to go ut sailing one. Just look at this:

LOA 10 m, beam 3.20m, Draft 2.50m, weight 2780 g, ballast ratio: 54%, sail area upwind 65.4 m2 (SA/D 33.6) sail area downwind 153.8m2.

This is a very stiff and powerful sailboat and not only a nice one. The boat is going to be at Dusseldorf and I want to see this beauty on the flesh or should I say on the carbon?




http://www.knierim-yachtbau.de/downl...ierim_P33D.pdf


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Van Rietschoten, a sail legend, is not among us anymore.





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