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  #5481  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: New A35

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
This is probably the boat I've been waiting for, particularly after I was able to get the grand tour of the current A35 last October. I'd want it in Transquadra configuration, with twin rudders / strut and torpedo bulb keel, and probably with twin wheels rather than a tiller (though would want to see the boat in person first, before making that decision).
......
My only hesitation would be an abiding lust for the new Dehler 38 - that extra 3 feet and corresponding interior volume would probably make my wife happier, though I'm hoping when she sees the A35 in person she will see what a big 35 ft. boat it actually is, compared to, say, the J/109 (which made her nervous about offshore passagemaking).

Time to get out a calculator and do some complex financial mathematics.
I bet that price is the one for the standard version not the one with a deeper keel and more sail (R), Anyway you can expect a version with two rudders and bulbed keel to be more expensive.

Regarding the Dehler 38 it is about the same, I mean even more the difference between a basic boat and a really fast one. Anyway that difference in LWL would be very important and the Dehler would be probably faster except on a transat.

For racing I am sure the A35 is much better. If your idea is to race solo or with a short crew the best version is the one with the tiller. With crew, the best is the one with the two wheels. On Archambault they developed for solo sailing a system they call the satellite that is something with a spherical shape and all commands there (lines). That sat. stays on the middle of the cockpit on the floor, near the feet of the tiller man.

Kind of surprise me that you don't see the JPK 38 as an option, if you are considering those two boats. You would not get good results on compensated but would be arriving with the first, specially on offshore races.

For racing and cruising probably regarding price a better solution would be a top Salona 38. You can get an IBC boat (top boat) almost for the price that costs a basic Dehler 38 and a Salona 38 IBC can win at the highest level.

If you plan to race the boat on US one of the things you can explore is the potential interest of the different brands in having a boat racing there. If they are really interested they can make a big discount on the boat.

Another option is to look at the possibility of being a dealer in US for Salona or JPK. I don't think they have one and they may be interested...if you are too
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Last edited by PCP; 12-19-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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  #5482  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: New A35

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I bet that price is the one for the standard version not the one with a deeper keel and more sail (R), Anyway you can expect a version with two rudders and bulbed keel to be more expensive.

Regarding the Dehler 38 it is about the same, I mean even more the difference between a basic boat and a really fast one. Anyway that difference in LWL would be very important and the Dehler would be probably faster except on a transat.

For racing I am sure the A35 is much better. If your idea is to race solo or with a short crew the best version is the one with the tiller. With crew, the best is the one with the two wheels. On Archambault they developed for solo sailing a system they call the satellite that is something with a spherical shape and all commands there (lines). That sat. stays on the middle of the cockpit on the floor, near the feet of the tiller man.

Kind of surprise me that you don't see the JPK 38 as an option, if you are considering those two boats. You would not get good results on compensated but would be arriving with the first, specially on offshore races.

For racing and cruising probably regarding price a better solution would be a top Salona 38. You can get an IBC boat (top boat) almost for the price that costs a basic Dehler 38 and a Salona 38 IBC can win at the highest level.

If you plan to race the boat on US one of the things you can explore is the potential interest of the different brands in having a boat racing there. If they are really interested they can make a big discount on the boat.

Another option is to look at the possibility of being a dealer in US for Salona or JPK. I don't think they have one and they may be interested...if you are too
Very good points, as usual, Paulo. I really like the JPK 38FC but price is a problem - €153.000 / $208,000 - so all up cost close to €175.000 / $240,000. That would be a considerable stretch for me. But perhaps with twin rudders and racing keel the A35 would end up costing as much. Of course, that's assuming buying new; I think, like you, I would look for a previously owned model and save some money. The Salona 38 is a nice boat, but again priced new out of my budget (~$238K / €176K). Imagine an IBC version is even more.

My intention is to race and cruise single and doublehanded. Perhaps friends or family might come aboard, but I'm not counting on it, from past experience. But I have close friends in the yacht racing fraternity who would be more than happy to do a DH Transquadra or Bermuda 1-2, etc. I suspect I will barely have resources to do things like that, when the time comes, let alone support a fully crewed racing program.

But, as we've discussed previously, if I only have to think of myself, then suddenly the Pogo 30 looks very nice. In fact, even a Pogo 3 would probably do the trick for my solo racing / cruising dreams. In the past I've let my concerns about what the wife wants influence my boat purchases, and that didn't turn out well. I shouldn't make the same mistake again, if I can help it.

In fact, I'm very eager to see the first Pogo 3 (which I thought was going to be shown at the Paris Nautic this month, but haven't seen any photos or news). That may very well end up being the best option for me. A friend / sailing colleague, here in Long Island Sound, purchased a Pogo 2 (U.S. built) and has been having a great time racing it and day sailing with his family. If I'm smart, I'll take a lesson from him. I've never sailed a Series boat (only Protos) but I've been aboard one of the Spanish-built Zeros and it seemed to have sufficient room for a minimalist like myself.

For now, just trying to survive the snow.
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  #5483  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Salona has/did have a dealer in the PNW (Pacific North West)
Washington state and Vancouver
They were represented in Seattle's boat show
Didn't have a boat, booth only by the in-water show
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  #5484  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: New A35

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Very good points, as usual, Paulo. I really like the JPK 38FC but price is a problem - €153.000 / $208,000 - so all up cost close to €175.000 / $240,000. That would be a considerable stretch for me. But perhaps with twin rudders and racing keel the A35 would end up costing as much. Of course, that's assuming buying new; I think, like you, I would look for a previously owned model and save some money. The Salona 38 is a nice boat, but again priced new out of my budget (~$238K / €176K). Imagine an IBC version is even more.

My intention is to race and cruise single and doublehanded. Perhaps friends or family might come aboard, but I'm not counting on it, from past experience. But I have close friends in the yacht racing fraternity who would be more than happy to do a DH Transquadra or Bermuda 1-2, etc. I suspect I will barely have resources to do things like that, when the time comes, let alone support a fully crewed racing program.

But, as we've discussed previously, if I only have to think of myself, then suddenly the Pogo 30 looks very nice. In fact, even a Pogo 3 would probably do the trick for my solo racing / cruising dreams. In the past I've let my concerns about what the wife wants influence my boat purchases, and that didn't turn out well. I shouldn't make the same mistake again, if I can help it.

In fact, I'm very eager to see the first Pogo 3 (which I thought was going to be shown at the Paris Nautic this month, but haven't seen any photos or news). That may very well end up being the best option for me. A friend / sailing colleague, here in Long Island Sound, purchased a Pogo 2 (U.S. built) and has been having a great time racing it and day sailing with his family. If I'm smart, I'll take a lesson from him. I've never sailed a Series boat (only Protos) but I've been aboard one of the Spanish-built Zeros and it seemed to have sufficient room for a minimalist like myself.

For now, just trying to survive the snow.
That seems a bit to vague tome. If you are thinking in a mini racer and not properly for doing mini-racing why not having a maxi-mini with better performance and a cruising interior?



Marée Haute - Django Ocean Race

I think it is inside your budget and these guys have racing experience and now how to make a race boat. They started doing minis and doing mini racing. They also make a mini racer.

This boat can be classified as A boat and you can legally sail offshore on it if you come to Europe. The interior is quite good for a racing boat since it is the same one used on the cruising version.

With 1500kg and 51m2 of sail upwind and 120m2 downwind this one should fly







Regards

Paulo
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  #5485  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward3 View Post
Salona has/did have a dealer in the PNW (Pacific North West)
Washington state and Vancouver
They were represented in Seattle's boat show
Didn't have a boat, booth only by the in-water show
You mean this year?

Maybe they have again. They had a dealer that sold a single boat in years, a 37. The owner is a member of this forum and says very well about the boat but I had heard that Salona had given up at least with that dealer.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5486  
Old 12-19-2013
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VK35 an Aluminium performance sailboat.

We had already talked about VK shipyard and design cabinet. The design Cabinet is Swedish but the boats are made in Poland and that allows for a very impressive price. They talk about 116 000 euros. That is an incredibly good price for a boat like this. That's true that I never managed to see the interior (I hope that price includes one) and that raises some doubts.

The boat is very interesting and the structure is very effective since it is a a cylindrical one that minimizes weight and maximizes strength:



The hull design seems very nice to me:







The boat dimensions are very interesting:

VK35 Technical data

Length overall = 10,6m
Length at waterline = 10,45m
Beam overall = 3,5m
Beam at waterline = 2,6m
Draft = 2,17m
Displacement = 5160kg
Ballast = 1600kg
Engine M3.28 20kW (27.2hp)
Mainsail area = 38.5m2
Genoa area = 36.7m2
Spinnaker area = 110m2

This is a light boat with lots of sail area. This one will not only be a good cruising boat but also will do good in club racing. The interior layout is a bit odd. It has a small saloon and what looks like a small cabin only accessible by the outside trough a small hatch???.



The boat is on the water and it looks good. It is really a shame the lack of creativity in the cabin port lights. It is true that cylindrical structure raises some problems but they could have used less ports and bigger fixed rounded plexiglas panels giving more light to the interior and allowing a more modern look to the boat.







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Last edited by PCP; 12-19-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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  #5487  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

I have the A35 pricelist and a complete boat with normal cruising gear, electronics and sails is well above €220000 and appr. €40000 more expensive than a Dehler 38 equipped likewise. Pretty stiff.

Anders
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  #5488  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
I have the A35 pricelist and a complete boat with normal cruising gear, electronics and sails is well above €220000 and appr. €40000 more expensive than a Dehler 38 equipped likewise. Pretty stiff.

Anders
Not fair to compare the A35 with the cruising Dehler 38. Even the more cruising version of the A35 has similar building specs with the Dehler 38R, not with the less expensive version. The Dehler 38R is hugely more expensive than the cruising Dehler.

Not saying that the cruising Dehler is not an overall better cruising boat than the A35, probably it is but in what regards racing it is miles apart.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5489  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The VK35 looks out of balance, the bow is very high and very low in the water aft.
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  #5490  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Well, Paul, you say that the VK35 is an interesting, quoting the data

Quote:
The boat dimensions are very interesting:

VK35 Technical data

Length overall = 10,6m
Length at waterline = 10,45m
Beam overall = 3,5m
Beam at waterline = 2,6m
Draft = 2,17m
Displacement = 5160kg
Ballast = 1600kg
Engine M3.28 20kW (27.2hp)
Mainsail area = 38.5m2
Genoa area = 36.7m2
Spinnaker area = 110m2

This is a light boat with lots of sail area. This one will not only be a good cruising boat but also will do good in club racing.
Which is probably is.

But then, I remember the data for the 20+ year old Dehler38 (no, not the new one):

LOA 38 ft (11,40 m)
Beam 3,78 m
Draft 2,05 m
Displacement 5500 kg
keel 49% (2800 kg)
Main 40.5 sqm
genua 1 41 sqm

There been some discussion in this thread what is to be considered "light", as "light" is something new, and very special. It is not. This old Dehler is not even minimalistic. (there are more examples from this period)

/Jaramaz
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