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  #5541  
Old 12-25-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Cheminees Poujolat sunk last night on its way home from the TJV. Stamm and his Coskipper were rescued by a container ship heading to Rotterdam.
Oh ****... Good to hear they are safe...
Untergang: Bernhard Stamm überlebt knapp ? ?Cheminées Poujoulat? verloren | SegelReporter

That must have been a heck of a storm and really awful waves...
I mean, those boats are build to withstand the nasiest stuff the southern ocean can throw at them and then the hull just breaks?

I won't comment on stamms abilities and only would say, that he had a lot of technical issues in the last vendee globes...
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  #5542  
Old 12-25-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
Oh ****... Good to hear they are safe...
Untergang: Bernhard Stamm überlebt knapp ? ?Cheminées Poujoulat? verloren | SegelReporter

That must have been a heck of a storm and really awful waves...
I mean, those boats are build to withstand the nasiest stuff the southern ocean can throw at them and then the hull just breaks?

I won't comment on stamms abilities and only would say, that he had a lot of technical issues in the last vendee globes...
I'm not saying the Juan K design was the problem, but Stamm was unhappy with a number of things before the start of the last Vendée, though he did not always name specific things. I got the impression that there were build quality problems and that certain aspects of the design were not to his liking - probably with respect to cockpit layout, hardware choices, etc.

If the boat broke apart during a delivery (very fortunate this didn't happen during the race itself), one has to wonder about hull structural design and build quality. But we will wait for the formal report to learn more about what happened.

My sense of Stamm, as a skipper, is that he is able to push his boats very hard but sometimes doesn't seem to realize that slower can be better; there are times when you need to back off and preserve the boat rather than keep pushing. In the last Vendée, he and Jean Pierre Dick just missed catching the front that enabled Armel and François to break away from the pack, and then Stamm's boat continued to break, pretty much ending his race.

Dick, of course, was phenomenal, fighting all the way and then bringing his boat across the finish line without a keel. Chapeau to that!

I was watching some of the footage of the Macif / BanquePop match race in the Southern Ocean from 2012. Some have claimed that Gabart is a machine, lacking in emotion, but his emotion was prominently on display during those days when he and Le Cléac'h were going at it hammer-and-tongs all the way around Cape Horn and up the South Atlantic. At least I could feel his stress and anxiety and manic intensity coming across very powerfully. Even thinking about those scenes gives me shivers.

Really can't wait until the next one.
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  #5543  
Old 12-25-2013
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Rescue of Samm and Damien

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Cheminees Poujolat sunk last night on its way home from the TJV. Stamm and his Coskipper were rescued by a container ship heading to Rotterdam.
Well, consider this my Christmas gift to all

I read this fantastic story about the rescue told by Stamm himself and felt that it was really a pity to be only accessible to the ones that can read French, since the automatic translation was really bad. So, there it is for all what I hope is a decent translation:

Bernard Stamm and Damien Guillou were recovered by a Norwegian freighter on Monday around 7:30 am, 180 Miles off Brest when they brought back Cheminées Poujoulat fromAzores to France. Both men saw the IMOCA monohull break into two , then slowly sinking and they owe their survival to the effectiveness of crew of the freighter Star Isfjord.

Naufrage du 60 IMOCA Cheminées Poujoulat - Bernard Stamm : « Le bateau s?est cassé en deux? » - Annonce bateaux - Annonces bateaux - Occasion Bateaux - Occasion Voiliers - Occasion voiles



“Damien and I, we were 200 miles from the tip of Cornwall and 180 nautical Brest . We were a little ahead of the front , sailing downwind. There were between 43 and 45 knots but it was manageable. We were prepared for this gale . We were under storm jib , with four reefs in the mainsail. Clearly, we really had the handbrake on, but in a wave, the boat broke in two, just near the movable foils.

The mast did not fall immediately. We quickly closed all boat bulkheads and them the mast fell to the transom. We asked very quickly for help and organized the survival conditions aboard.

We prepare things on the eventuality of having to leave the boat. The sea was huge so we tried to assess the risk of the boat degradation to the point of being better to abandon it. We tried to take away the mast but we did not succeed. It was really too dangerous to try to do that. However, we managed to make it fall a bit more in the water and that stop it from beating viciously against the hull. We went inside and grabbed our survival equipment. Clearly, we were not sure how long the boat would float.

A French Navy falcon 50 from the Hyères base arrived on the area around 23:30, after refueling in Bordeaux. They coordinated the rescue before being relayed by a maritime patrol aircraft around 6am Monday.

Meanwhile, a rescue by a helicopter, a British Sea King rescue type, was attempted. They had asked us to leave the boat on the liferaft, the only way a diver could pick us up. That's what we did but Damien and I have never managed to get away from the boat. It was very dangerous since the life raft was being throw violently by the waves against the broken bow. Finally, we had to re-board Cheminées Poujoulat leaving on the raft almost all of our water, survival bag , telephone , rockets ... In short, at this point , we have lost a lot of our survival equipment.

Rescuers told us dive and to swim out of the boat for the diver to try to pick us up directly in the water. Unfortunately, that did not work either and was a very bad idea because I had a lot of trouble to get back to the boat again. I was quite shocked with all this situation.

After that we no longer had access to the sail locker where was stored our second life-raft and therefore five were dropped from the plane, but all have fallen too far away from us.

Then the cargo arrived and maneuvered to get alongside us. A rope was thrown at us but we missed it and the operation almost got us crushed against the cargo and in meantime Cheminées Poujoulat continued to sink . The crew threw us a new rope while we were along the cargo and this time, we, standing on the back of the sinking boat were able to catch it and block the remains of our boat against the cargo. The crew then descended a rope but we were banged violently against the hull and could not hold the rope and fall on the water.

With Damien things went better and he did not went far away but I have done 80 meters in the water, sometimes drinking a lot of it until I succeed in grabbing the net they had deployed. Damien swam next to the cargo and they throw him a ring buoy in which he could get in an only then he was able to catch the net and get out of trouble.

It was really super hot because there was a lot of sea and Cheminées Poujoulat , at that time , was almost entirely under water . There was only one small part of the transom sticking to the surface and the bow that was hanging from the shrouds . For ne this was a really hard thing to look.

The Filipino crew of the freighter MV Star Isfjord showed an incredible seamanship on the rescue. The Cargo is now bound to the Netherlands, where we should arrive Wednesday evening .

I want to thank to all the men who participated in this major operation . Thank you from my heart . "


Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-25-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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  #5544  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Wow- makes you think.
I have only one raft.
Don't know if my crew and I have the level of fitness to do what they did.
Would my boat stay afloat that long after breaking up?

But on the other hand like to think its unlikely we would find ourselves in similar circumstances and believe its unlikely our boat would break up.
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  #5545  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Pelicano - stamm had on his boat the towing generators mounted on vertical rails while a lot of others had them on a single point fixture, so they could swing them up or down as they need them... Due to collisions and probably other problems as well stamm lost both, which was a major part of his troubles...
The second big issue was his main winch in the center of the cockpit at the bulkhead... He tried to repair it two times i think, but if one knows how complex those things are. I cannot think of any way to fix one of them myself, let alone at sea...
And then one thing let to the other... Without main winch, no alternative power (which ate up his fuel supplies) he was forced to sail without autopilot for 5 days only to reach cape hoorn... Where he refilled and finally dropped out.

But you are right - i cannot await the next edition!
Btw: i do think that gabbart is a robot...
Just kidding - le cleach showed less of emotions, at least on his live footages...
I followed the last edition all the way through and there were some remarkable feats performed...
JP dick bringing his boat home without keel not the least of them...
Do you know the video footage from thompson repairing his broken tie bar? And he had to do it twice...
I just wished that sanso and his acciona would have had a finish, because i simply favor the idea of sailing around the world without a drop of fossil energy...

Last edited by capt vimes; 12-25-2013 at 06:32 PM.
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  #5546  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
...
But on the other hand like to think its unlikely we would find ourselves in similar circumstances and believe its unlikely our boat would break up.
Probably not since your boat will not take all the loads these boats have to sustain. These carbon boats are hugely stronger than your boat but your boat will never took the pounding and sustain the stress related with going well over 20K on huge seas, not for some thousands of miles but for hundreds of thousands on miles.

Even so and with all those miles and huge stress taken by these hulls this is a very rare occurrence and I don't recall any other case with an Open 60 that are probably the strongest and safest sailboats around.

There are many much older Open 60 still racing or still around (some more than 3 times older) that have been proving pretty much indestructible.

(Edited for correcting factual information)

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-26-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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  #5547  
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Sydney-Hobart

Just to remember that the race will start in 10 minutes.

You can follow here:

Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2013

and just as an appetizer, a movie regarding last year's edition:

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  #5548  
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Sydney-Hobart

Live Start here:

Yahoo!7 Sports Live - Yahoo!7 Sport

Edit: Great start. My take on the race: Two possible winners: Wild Oats, that is leading or Loyal, that is second. Very different boats and very interesting to see how those two concepts work on the Hobart. On most of the races I believe that Loyal (ex Rambler) would be faster since it is faster downwind but on this particular race upwind potential is what counts most so it should be a close call. Loyal has more power but Wild Oats has more finesse so it will depend much on the racing conditions and wind.

Wild Oats is a much narrower boat (about 2.00m) compared with Loyal that is a more recent design even if Wild Oats has been continuing modified in what regards keel, rudders and now DSS.. Interesting stuff and one of the most interesting races of the last years.
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Last edited by PCP; 12-25-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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  #5549  
Old 12-26-2013
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Probably not since your boat will not take all the loads these boats have to sustain. These carbon boats are hugely stronger than your boat but your boat will never took the pounding and sustain the stress related with going well over 20K on huge seas, not for some thousands of miles but for hundreds of thousands on miles.

Even so and with all those miles and huge stress taken by these hulls this is a very rare occurrence and I don't recall any other case with an Open 60 that are probably the strongest and safest sailboats around.

I believe that this accident has to do with this one being a boat that was salvaged after a brutal collision with rocks, with the boat being washed ashore later (2008).

Many thought that the boat was irrecoverable and maybe they were right and that recovery should not have been attempted even if the boat had made after that several racing circumnavigations and many transats. It is well possible that the stress suffered by the hull on that shipwreck and the consequent weakening of the structure prove to be the ultimate cause of this accident. There are many much older Open 60 still racing or still around (some more than 3 times older) that have been proving pretty much indestructible.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo- those two boats are not identical... Stamm received a brand new one in 2011 which obviously broke apart now...
Skipper - Vendée Globe 2012-2013
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  #5550  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
Paulo- those two boats are not identical... Stamm received a brand new one in 2011 which obviously broke apart now...
Skipper - Vendée Globe 2012-2013
Yes, you are right. I will correct the post (thanks). Pelicano seems right then. Something wrong with that boat design/built. Other older Open 60 are still around in one piece after having done much more racing/circumnavigations than this boat.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-26-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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